|| *Comments on the 2014 Camping World RV Sales 301:* First Page | Previous Page | Next Page | Last Page | View All On One Page View the most recent comment | Post a comment <#post> 1. Schroeder51 posted: 07.11.2014 - 6:28 pm Rate this comment: (1) (1) Watermelon Seed Eater? ...That's even lamer than KFC Bone Eater. 2. Anonymous posted: 07.11.2014 - 6:30 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) *Everyone please ignore him* Good qualifying run for the 78 team and Martin Truex Jr. Jeff Burton is back in a Cup car for his second race this season! Burton is a four-time winner at this track. 3. jabber1990 posted: 07.11.2014 - 6:32 pm Rate this comment: (1) (1) this has been a long week, the last 3 times I suffered through a long week Jimmie Johnson won, so i'm expecting a Jimmie Johnson victory 4. Schroeder51 posted: 07.11.2014 - 6:33 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Clay Rogers actually attempted to enter this race? That's...interesting. 5. Dave #38 Fan-Go Gilliland! posted: 07.11.2014 - 6:46 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) "Clay Rogers actually attempted to enter this race? That's...interesting." Rogers and owner Mark Beard have a car ready to go they just need funding to be able to run a full race. 6. joey2448 posted: 07.11.2014 - 6:48 pm Rate this comment: (2) (0) Thanks to the webmaster for deleting the trolls! Eddie McDonald, a native New Englander, qualifies for his first ever Cup race in the 32 car....and Morgan Shepherd, who I believe set the record last year for the oldest driver to start a Cup race (?), will extend that mark. He is 72 years old. 7. Feetduck posted: 07.11.2014 - 6:50 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) The Blue Deuce starts 7th in the Red Deuce 8. AveryNH posted: 07.11.2014 - 6:59 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "this has been a long week, the last 3 times I suffered through a long week Jimmie Johnson won, so i'm expecting a Jimmie Johnson victory" Please. No. I've been in attendance for one Johnson win [July2010] he led nine laps and Jeff Burton would've walked away with the win if Reed Sorenson didn't unleash his inner Brian Vickers, diving deep into turn three dumping Montoya, after an aggressive (understatement) several lap battle. Pit strategy split the field as a result, and if I remember correctly, Burton took four and peeled through the field only to tangle with Kyle Busch after a few laps, and Jimmie drove off after nailing both restarts. The only race Jimmie was dominant that I've attended was in sept. of '08, which Biffle wound up winning. Probably more noteworthy though was Kyle Busch setting the standard for all his chase meltdowns as he couldn't get out of his own way all afternoon. Oh and it was J. Logano first cup start in the 96 DLP/home Depot toyota, which was painted similar to Stewart's scheme at the time only reversed. 9. joey2448 posted: 07.11.2014 - 7:06 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "I've been in attendance for one Johnson win [July2010]" If I had to pick one Johnson victory that I've actually enjoyed watching, it would probably be that one. He and Kurt Busch had a heck of a battle at the end, and while I was pulling for Kurt to win, it wasn't disappointing for Jimmie to pull it off because he actually had to earn it. The two traded bump-n-runs to pass each other, with JJ's coming with like four laps to go. About the only other Johnson win I've enjoyed was Talladega 2011 in that fantastic eight-car, three-wide finish. 10. 23andJoe posted: 07.11.2014 - 7:32 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Yeley in the 44 also withdrew. Shame Rogers withdrew - he was only on the entry list for a couple of hours yesterday. But he would have made the show after the 44 pulled out. Instead BK pulls out its backup car for Mike Bliss once more and, this time, fills the field. Glad to see Eddie Mac making a run. I'm surprised, though, that Archie St. Hilaire (who co-owns the 32 now with Frankie Stoddard) originally said he wasn't sure about what New England driver might be able to run the car when the sponsor asked about it. My mind would have jumped straight to Mike Stefanik... 11. numbah10hatah posted: 07.11.2014 - 7:33 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Withdrew: JJ Yeley #44 TBA Johnathan Cohen Chevy 12. joey2448 posted: 07.11.2014 - 7:43 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Wow. According to online and social media, sounds like Brandon Jones just tried to win the K&N Pro series race with another last lap divebomb like he tried in the ARCA race at Winchester, except this time it didn't work so well. Nick Drake was leading but Jones made a move and wrecked both of them! And Jesse Little won for his first career K&N victory! That is awesome! But Jones is starting to gain a reputation for wrecking drivers, which isn't good, because he seems to have a lot of talent. Btw, the broadcast for that race will be Sunday, July 20 at noon ET on Fox Sports 1. 13. NRF official @$$ hat of RR posted: 07.11.2014 - 7:55 pm Rate this comment: (3) (2) "But Jones is starting to gain a reputation for wrecking drivers, which isn't good, because he seems to have a lot of talent. Btw, the broadcast for that race will be Sunday, July 20 at noon ET on Fox Sports 1. " Gray Gaulding comes to mind. 14. Daniel posted: 07.11.2014 - 8:30 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Go Gordon! 15. DB1995 posted: 07.11.2014 - 8:31 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) At least when Gray did it he did it well enough to still win anyway 16. SpeedWorld97 posted: 07.11.2014 - 8:53 pm Rate this comment: (2) (0) "Wow. According to online and social media, sounds like Brandon Jones just tried to win the K&N Pro series race with another last lap divebomb like he tried in the ARCA race at Winchester, except this time it didn't work so well. Nick Drake was leading but Jones made a move and wrecked both of them! And Jesse Little won for his first career K&N victory! That is awesome! But Jones is starting to gain a reputation for wrecking drivers, which isn't good, because he seems to have a lot of talent. Btw, the broadcast for that race will be Sunday, July 20 at noon ET on Fox Sports 1." Is it just me or are some of the up and coming American stock car drivers too immature/inexperienced behind the wheel of a race car? 17. DB1995 posted: 07.11.2014 - 8:58 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) "Is it just me or are some of the up and coming American stock car drivers too immature/inexperienced behind the wheel of a race car?" This is exactly what i say 18. Sky Warrior posted: 07.11.2014 - 11:44 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Any idea if there's any pictures of Rogers' #75? Was it even wrapped and at the track? 19. Dave #38 Fan-Go Gilliland! posted: 07.11.2014 - 11:56 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) "Any idea if there's any pictures of Rogers' #75? Was it even wrapped and at the track?" Rogers tweeted a picture of the car at the shop a few months ago but it wasn't wrapped yet. 20. 1995 Subaru WRX STi posted: 07.12.2014 - 12:40 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Is it just me or are some of the up and coming American stock car drivers too immature/inexperienced behind the wheel of a race car?" When this kid comes up, i wounder what the biggest complaints will be about: 1. Jimmie Johnson winning too much 2. Kyle Busch winning too many lower tier races 3. Brandon Jones wrecking someone on the last lap when he is near the leader. But seriously, he can't keep doing that. I understand he wants too win but it isn't going too work every damn time. He has too learn that. Sooner or later when he is in the same spot, someone is going too do it too him. It is bound too happen. *shrugs* 21. Sky Warrior posted: 07.12.2014 - 12:43 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Looking at his Twitter it appears they had an engine issue. Must not have had a backup 22. 23andJoe posted: 07.12.2014 - 4:25 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) >"Any idea if there's any pictures of Rogers' #75? Was it even wrapped and at the track?" No, he wasn't at the track. He was on the entry list for all of about five hours Thursday morning. 23. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.12.2014 - 6:24 am Rate this comment: (0) (1) Scary... Kevin Conway is now a kick ass Lamborghini racer. 24. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.12.2014 - 7:10 am Rate this comment: (0) (2) Good question... why do they still waste their time with the "301" when Lenox isn't even the sponsor anymore? 25. startandparkfan posted: 07.12.2014 - 9:31 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Scary... Kevin Conway is now a kick ass Lamborghini racer." For a guy that never got a top 10 in the top 3 NASCAR divisions and ran all of 4 laps in his final 3 races, good to see him doing well. Scott Speed is a really good RallyCross driver! 26. TS1420 posted: 07.12.2014 - 9:33 am Rate this comment: (0) (1) Crap... Nap-Time/Syxx-Pac starts 2nd. Never good when he starts top five. Though Smoke starts 4th and he was a legit threat to win before he and the 14 team thought they were the '03 12 team and tried going a third of the damn race without stopping for fuel the last time he raced at NHMS. 27. dennyfan11 posted: 07.12.2014 - 9:38 am Rate this comment: (0) (5) Last week,Schroder51 said this. "And how do you know that ignoring and refusing to watch the races would cause NASCAR to make things better? For all you know, they could easily try to make things even MORE gimmicky to try to win more fans in that situation." he asked,so here it is! Ultra Gimmicky NASCAR -Stunts! At halfway,each driver has to go on a stunt course. Judges give ratings. Whoever does the best stunts restarts the race in 1st place. -Eliminations! After every 20 laps,the lowest ranking driver is eliminated. -Jet Dryer racing! Every rain delay,the jet dryers get to race! -Tweets! The Sprint 60 Unlimited will replace the sprint unlimited,but be the length of the unlimited. -Even worse chase! after 26 races,all full time drivers will be reset to equal points. -Mandatory cautions after every 1/10 of the race distance! -Figure 8 racing at select tracks! -Field inversion at halfway! -Fans can drive! A select 43 fans will compete in a fan race before the race. -Cones on track! Drivers get bonus points for every cone they hit. -Fans can throw shards of glass in front of their least favorite drivers! -Martinsville hot dog eating contests! -And finally,Watermelon seed eater does commentary! 28. BluesTravelerFan posted: 07.12.2014 - 12:05 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Can anyone tell me if and when the Modified tour race(the Sunoco 100) will be televised? Last year it was shown live, I haven't seen anything about it this year. 29. Chad's Hair Plugs posted: 07.12.2014 - 12:28 pm Rate this comment: (2) (0) Can anyone tell me if and when the Modified tour race(the Sunoco 100) will be televised? Last year it was shown live, I haven't seen anything about it this year. Tape delay, Fri July 18th, noon et on Fox Sports 1. 30. BluesTravelerFan posted: 07.12.2014 - 12:35 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Thanks Chad! 31. We need more Onion posted: 07.12.2014 - 12:53 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) ""Scary... Kevin Conway is now a kick ass Lamborghini racer." For a guy that never got a top 10 in the top 3 NASCAR divisions and ran all of 4 laps in his final 3 races, good to see him doing well. Scott Speed is a really good RallyCross driver!" Place these in context. Speed is beating the very best of American and some quite good Nordic drivers in RX, he is probably the best non-European rallycrosser out there. Meanwhile, Conway is beating a bunch of rich dudes and club racers. Exactly the level he belongs to. 32. The Long Shot posted: 07.12.2014 - 1:19 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) "Can anyone tell me if and when the Modified tour race(the Sunoco 100) will be televised? Last year it was shown live, I haven't seen anything about it this year. Tape delay, Fri July 18th, noon et on Fox Sports 1." That's disappointing. The Modified race was by far and wide the best event of the entire weekend last year. 33. The Crimson King posted: 07.12.2014 - 1:31 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) This race just screams "Jimmie Johnson domination". Bah. 34. epzik8 posted: 07.12.2014 - 4:03 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Last race for TNT in the current contract. Also qualifying yesterday was pretty interesting, at least the second round. 35. KennyWallaceFan posted: 07.12.2014 - 5:12 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) (referencing back to last race's post) "finishes very often reflect luck more than skill. Everybody goes on about how the finish is the only thing that matters. In the long run, that is likely correct, as in theory, luck should average out over a long run (i.e. hundreds of races), but it does not average out over a single season. Not even close." I agree Sean that it's silly to compare 1 lap over the total number of laps in a race, and agree with your points. The problem is though racing leagues don't have a choice. I mean could NASCAR's points system be better with not rewarding mid pack finishes so much and not killing team's with DNF's? Yes. That part could definitely be better. But you can't have a point system that rewards average finish (even if it is the best indication of success, which I also believe to be true.) For example let's say this is the points battle with one race to go in the season: 1. Jimmie Johnson +2 Points 2. Kurt Busch -2 Points 3. Kevin Harvick -6 Points And let's say NASCAR rewards average running position for points. Jimmie has a 5.4 average position for the race, Kurt Busch 5.5 and Kevin Harvick 4.7 with 11 laps to go - now let's say it's 10 laps in the race left and Kurt Busch passes 2 cars and Kevin passes 1 and Jimmie loses 4 but a the end he gains one back, on one single lap. At that time with such an insanely close title battle do you think any fan would be able to tell you who was leading the points (and if the race ended right there, who would be champion?) And the announcers wouldn't know either if cars kept passing/being passed at a medium-high pace. So nobody would know who was leading the standings at the time. You would only know if you had a calculator with you. And that's not good for any racing series. Points systems will always be flawed in some regard, and there is nothing you can do about it. And going back to Sean's points he is correct that it's silly to evaluate drivers based on lap, instead of every lap of the race. Yes drivers and teams know that's how points are rewarded, but it still is foolish IMO. Ask any statistician if he would rather have 1/300th of the data to evaluate or 300/300 (100%) of the data for evaluating something. I believe Sean is only talking about evaluating drivers ability in a discussion form and not an actual points system. I'm just adding on to his point that no points system can really truly determine ability and honestly shouldn't. Also, hello I'm new to the forum (not the site.) And also, Sean where did you get that data from average running position? It would be cool to see that for all the drivers, for myself. 36. 1995 Subaru WRX STi posted: 07.12.2014 - 6:13 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Points systems will always be flawed in some regard, and there is nothing you can do about it." Glad someone pointed out the 9000 pound animal in the room. For as i see it the best system is not using points at all. Points are for stick and ball sports not auto racing. Getting the big trophy and big check is should all that matter. "Also, hello I'm new to the forum (not the site.)" Welcome. :-) There is a forum here on the site but it is for intense and purposes like the dinosauers. 37. Anonymous posted: 07.12.2014 - 8:33 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Dale Jr evidently stands no chance of winning this race, I just hope he wins after Steve Letarte leaves after the season. I like Jr, I'm just scared he will never win again. Does anyone think he stands any chance at all of winning at least one more race? 38. JG24FanForever posted: 07.12.2014 - 8:39 pm Rate this comment: (2) (0) "I'm just scared he will never win again." Dude, he won like yesterday. 39. Jim Davis posted: 07.12.2014 - 8:39 pm Rate this comment: (3) (0) "I agree Sean that it's silly to compare 1 lap over the total number of laps in a race, and agree with your points." Sean makes excellent points but I think he rather overstates his case. I think a driver that spends most of the race conserving his equipment but comes on at the end to win the race cannot be considered a poor driver because he didn't have a great average running position and certainly can't be said to have lucked into a win. Would this even come up in any other context? Would we consider one runner to be better than another because he led most of the race even though he didn't cross the finish line first? Should we evaluate football and basketball teams on how many minutes they held the lead and dismiss the winners as "lucky"? I remain unconvinced that average running position tells you more than finishing position. 40. JG24FanForever posted: 07.12.2014 - 8:41 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "For a guy that never got a top 10 in the top 3 NASCAR divisions and ran all of 4 laps in his final 3 races, good to see him doing well." Conway got a Top 10 at Daytona in Cup. 41. Anonymous posted: 07.12.2014 - 8:44 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) #38 What I mean is that with Steve Letarte leaving at the end of the season, I'm worried he will never win again after 2014. Remember those years with Lance Mcgrew as his crew chief, what if he gets another crew chief like him? 42. Feetduck posted: 07.12.2014 - 8:55 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Bk2 won both practices 43. Schroeder51 posted: 07.12.2014 - 8:56 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Conway got a Top 10 at Daytona in Cup." Um...no, he didn't. 44. David posted: 07.12.2014 - 10:29 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) ""Points systems will always be flawed in some regard, and there is nothing you can do about it." Glad someone pointed out the 9000 pound animal in the room." I thought I already had. Oh well, no matter. This has been my line of thinking for some time now. There are great point systems (like many F1 has had) and ones that should have never made it past the early stages (pretty much every system in NASCAR ever). By "great", I mean systems that painted a fairly accurate picture of how the season went. Even then, if they do achieve that, then it has to be partially attributed to luck. Every points system will have its flaws. I agree with Sean's assessment that good luck and bad luck--in regards to running position vs. finishing position--does even out eventually, but not within the small timeframe of a season. One poster here stated that championships are "worthless" because of the subjectivity of any points system. I don't go that far, as I think drivers and teams plan their races around maximizing their points take with as little risk as possible (especially late in the season). As for Jim Davis's remarks, I both agree and disagree with them. There are many different strategies to win a race, and conserving the equipment for the final stretch is just one of them. I do disagree that motor racing is analogous to football, baseball, or running. That's taking it too far the other way. Motor racing has been, is, and always will be more luck-dependent than any other sport. It's not a driver's fault if he's caught up in a crash not of his/her own doing, or if he/she collects debris on the grille and overheats the engine as a result. Perhaps a compromise is in order. I think some sort of "weighted running position" would be extremely useful in driver and team evaluation. In such a statistic, I would place more value on running position in the latter stages of a race, yet leading the majority of a race would still retain its importance. Unfortunately, NASCAR doesn't make running positions for each lap available for public use. Otherwise, that would make for an interesting study. 45. cjs3872 posted: 07.12.2014 - 10:35 pm Rate this comment: (4) (0) Actually 1995 Subaru, as far as I know, auto racing invented the points system as a means to determine a champion. The reason being that, unlike the "stick and ball sports", there can only be one winner per week, unlike baseball, where there are as many as 15 different teams that win in one day, or in football, where as many as 16 teams win in one week. In the stick and ball sports, half the teams win every day, while just one can win an auto race. Therefore, points systems were devised to measure how the teams did throughout a season, even if they couldn't win. That's because, even though winning is the most important thing, you don't have two teams competing against each other, but many teams competing, and if you can't win, then you have to try to get the best position you can get in a given race. And it should be the most consistently successful driver and team throughout the entirety of an entire season that should be the champion, and the only way to do that is through a points system. After all, a driver shouldn't be able to win a championship by winning a quarter of the races and falling out of the other three-quarters of the races. That's not consistent success. I would rather see a guy win a championship by winning one or two races and run up front practically all the time rather than see a driver win a bunch of races and fall out of a bunch of races to win a championship, because that means the most consistently successful driver is the one winning the championship, not the one that's spectacular, but wildly inconsistent. The 1978 USAC IndyCar championship is a classic case of this. Tom Sneva did not win a single race, but won the championship, while Danny Ongais won five times that year and Al Unser won all three 500 mile races, which paid more points than the shorter races did. But Sneva was always up front when the race ended, while Ongais and Unser were usually in the garage area when they weren't winning. Sneva had the best overall season, even if he didn't win, and earned that championship. I've always felt that, although a champion should be able to win at least once to validate his title, it's far more important that he runs up front at the finish the most. And yes, I do believe that Carl Edwards would have been a better champion than Tony Stewart in 2011 for that very reason, because nobody ran up front more often that season than Edwards did, even though he won just once. Of course, there are some acute anomalies in this (1985 and 1996 in NASCAR's top series, for instance), but by enlarge, I think the guy that finishes up front the most should, at least be in contention to be the champion. 46. murb posted: 07.12.2014 - 11:32 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) About the "will Dale Jr ever win again without Letarte" question, I think that as long as he's with Hendrick (and in the 48's shop), he'll be capable of winning races. If you're talking about championships though, that's a different story. If he doesn't totally mesh well with his next crew chief like he did with Letarte, then I think this year could very well end up being his last chance at ever winning a Cup title. I don't think Jr is gonna totally drop off in the next few years and be mediocre or anything, but he is getting a bit older and doesn't have THAT many quality years left (probably 3-5 more, if I had to guess), so if Lance McGrew Part 2 does happen with his next crew chief, then I think it will definitely affect his ability at ever winning a championship. Hopefully they pick the right one for him and don't do something weird like put Alan Gustafson with him or something. I don't consider myself a Jr fan (I like him just fine though), but it would suck to see him finish out his career with a revolving door of crew chiefs (like Tony Stewart is now doing). You never want to see good drivers have stability problems like that in the latter stages. 47. Sean posted: 07.13.2014 - 1:29 am Rate this comment: (1) (0) "But you can't have a point system that rewards average finish (even if it is the best indication of success, which I also believe to be true.) " Of course not, and I would never structure a points system like that. Points systems SHOULD be easy to understand for the fans, but NASCAR's apparent assumption that fans would only understand a points system from 43 to 1 (which was even worse than the Latford system) is unbelievably condescending to the fans. The points system I want is: 200-160-140-120-100-90-80-70-60-50-45-40-35-30-25-22-19-16-13-10-8-6-4-2-1 for the top 25 positions, with 26-43 scoring nothing, plus 2 points for leading each 10% of a race, and 10 points for a pole. That still generally rewards the most consistent drivers (Terry Labonte still wins in 1984), creates memorable points totals for the important positions (200 - 1st, 100 - 5th, 50 - 10th, 25 - 15th, 10 - 20th, 1 - 5th), generally with consistent drops per position within each group of five that I think the fans could easily understand. If the bonus points for percent led are considered too complicated I suppose NASCAR could do something like what IROC did giving the driver who leads the most laps 5, the 2nd most laps 3, and the 3rd most laps 2 (but I'd make the points totals higher on this scale). I'm not saying to ignore consistent finishes. I'm saying that NASCAR's points system went way too far in regard to consistent finishes to the point that Jimmy Means beat Dale Earnhardt in points in 1982 solely because Means finished the races (without running all that well in them at all) and Earnhardt DNFed... Or Geoff Bodine having one of the most dominant seasons and finishing 17th in points due to all his DNFs. Should either of them have been anywhere near the title chase? Of course not. But Earnhardt should have at least beaten Jimmy Means (with any reasonable points system) and Bodine should have at least beaten Lake Speed, Michael Waltrip, Ted Musgrave, and Kyle Petty. Consistency matters. NASCAR thinks it matters too much. Matt McLaughlin from Frontstretch suggested a points system of 1000-500-200-100-etc... or something which goes WAY too far in the other direction considering how easy it is to back into a win, especially in the charity era of NASCAR. I just want 2nd place to have 75-80% points of the winner, 5th place to have 50-60%, 10th place to have maybe 30%, etc... The middle positions get way too much weight. I'm not saying average running position should be used to determine the points standings, and I'm not saying consistency shouldn't matter in determining a champion (this happens even in F1 - Nico Rosberg has won fewer races than Lewis Hamilton but has been more consistent and has led the championship most of the season...) "And let's say NASCAR rewards average running position for points. Jimmie has a 5.4 average position for the race, Kurt Busch 5.5 and Kevin Harvick 4.7 with 11 laps to go - now let's say it's 10 laps in the race left and Kurt Busch passes 2 cars and Kevin passes 1 and Jimmie loses 4 but a the end he gains one back, on one single lap. At that time with such an insanely close title battle do you think any fan would be able to tell you who was leading the points (and if the race ended right there, who would be champion?) And the announcers wouldn't know either if cars kept passing/being passed at a medium-high pace. So nobody would know who was leading the standings at the time. You would only know if you had a calculator with you. And that's not good for any racing series." See above. I agree NASCAR should not develop something as cumbersome as the BCS or whatever that most fans generally cannot calculate by themselves. I do think average running position is a much better measure of talent in the short run than the points standings though, and a single season is still the short run. That doesn't mean that I don't think somebody who has been consistent should win the championship, but when I see somebody barely more consistent/much less dominant backing into one (as in 1996) that proves the points system is flawed. Terry Labonte and Jeff Gordon had the same number of top 5s and top 10s while Gordon led everything else except average finish. Luck just matters too much in determining championships. You have to remove luck from consideration when evaluating *talent*, which is why I think championships in and of themselves are an overrated (NOT worthless) measure of talent, but I would never determine a champion by attempting to factor out luck, because that's ridiculously subjective. (I would attempt to determine a best driver that way though.) "Sean makes excellent points but I think he rather overstates his case. I think a driver that spends most of the race conserving his equipment but comes on at the end to win the race cannot be considered a poor driver because he didn't have a great average running position and certainly can't be said to have lucked into a win." Generally a driver who is threatening for the win and conserving equipment will be running 6th-10th in the early stages in the race and WILL have one of the highest average running positions in the race. Perhaps average running position could be improved by giving later laps of the race more weight to attempt to reflect closing ability (which I haven't evaluated to see if it really exists or is just a myth...I think it exists in championship battles but not as much in individual races.) Average running position is an improvement because it distinguishes between who had a good RUN and a good finish (which oftentimes comes down to strategy, luck, etc...) Somebody conserving their equipment until the end of the race (which doesn't really happen much anymore since the equipment is so reliable...drivers like Kyle Busch are the exceptions nowadays) will have a strong average running position. Somebody who runs around in 20th all race, stays out of the pits and takes the lead with 20 laps to go by staying out of the pits and only falls due to 5th due to aero push/minimum passing (the ultimate example of this being Elliott Sadler at Bristol in 2001) did not have a good run. The strategist got the team/driver a good finish due to strategy. I'm attempting to distinguish between what the driver does and what the team does. No regular contender for wins is going to hang back outside the top 10/top 15 except on plate tracks, where I'll admit average running position might not work. "Would this even come up in any other context? Would we consider one runner to be better than another because he led most of the race even though he didn't cross the finish line first? Should we evaluate football and basketball teams on how many minutes they held the lead and dismiss the winners as "lucky"? " Runners no. There is no strategy. There is no luck. It is pure skill. Stick-and-ball team sports, emphatically YES. At least in the context I am talking about here (distinguishing the driver from the team). People all the time say that the best players are the people who win championships, but great players with weaker supporting teammates CANNOT do everything by themselves. Was Michael Jordan not the best basketball player in the NBA in the late '80s? He was, but the rest of the team didn't live up to the challenge until Scottie Pippen arrived there. Auto racing is a team sport masked as an individual sport and you have to remove team aspects when evaluating drivers, just as you have to remove team aspects when evaluating say, quarterbacks. The luck is the factors outside the player's performance that makes the player look worse than he/she actually is, which happens in every team sport. Was Trent Dilfer a better quarterback than Dan Marino? Etc... While I do think the NASCAR points system is laughably wrong, I'm not suggesting we ignore team factors, but it might be better if more of us thought of all racing championships as "team championships". The #48 team is the best team in Cup and Jimmie Johnson is an integral part of its success, but he is not the only part, and he is not automatically the best driver solely because he is winning championships that the team has more to do with. (He may be the best driver even after ignoring the team, or he may not be, but solely using championships, especially chase championships, as validation for this is not looking at the entire picture.) "Unfortunately, NASCAR doesn't make running positions for each lap available for public use. Otherwise, that would make for an interesting study." Yes, that indeed bites. 48. Sean posted: 07.13.2014 - 1:29 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "And it should be the most consistently successful driver and team throughout the entirety of an entire season that should be the champion, and the only way to do that is through a points system." I do agree. "After all, a driver shouldn't be able to win a championship by winning a quarter of the races and falling out of the other three-quarters of the races. That's not consistent success." That's a rather extreme example that never happened and never will happen, but okay, I'll agree with that too. I just think such a driver shouldn't be like 22nd in points or something. Maybe more like 8th or 10th... Of course being slightly less dominant but a lot more consistent should be rewarded more. I just don't think out and out mediocrity should be rewarded more than inconsistent dominance (Lake Speed, Michael Waltrip, and Ted Musgrave beating Geoff Bodine in 1994, etc...) "But Sneva was always up front when the race ended, while Ongais and Unser were usually in the garage area when they weren't winning. Sneva had the best overall season, even if he didn't win, and earned that championship." That means he had the best team with the most reliable equipment (he was driving for Penske, after all...and he was fired because he was winning). That does not mean independent of the reliability of his equipment that he was the best driver. That is the argument I am making here. And I find giving some races in a season more weight than others is stupid regardless of the rationale (I don't like the chase, I don't like F1 giving double points in the season finale, and I don't like IndyCar doubling points for the 500-mile races although at least that has a historical precedent, but I see it as going back to '60s/'70s gimmicks, which really isn't any better than NASCAR developing new ones...) "I think the guy that finishes up front the most should, at least be in contention to be the champion." As long as you don't think finishing up front means having the same number of top ten finishes but finishing higher in points due to having BETTER BAD RACES (as with Labonte and Gordon in 1996...) Having better good races should be more important than having better bad races, right? 49. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.13.2014 - 5:20 am Rate this comment: (0) (1) "I see it as going back to '60s/'70s gimmicks," Except they weren't gimmicks. Back then points were based on how long the races were. Thus the Indy/Pocono/Ontario 500s got a ton of points because they were over twice as long as the next longest races. 50. ESPN posted: 07.13.2014 - 5:20 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) But what does LeBron think? 51. JG24FanForever posted: 07.13.2014 - 6:47 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Conway got a Top 10 at Daytona in Cup. "Um...no, he didn't." 14th was his finish. 52. Kirk posted: 07.13.2014 - 8:29 am Rate this comment: (1) (0) Go Morgan! 53. cjs3872 posted: 07.13.2014 - 10:02 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Sean, that is why I referred to what happened in 1996 as an acute anomaly. As far as finishing up with the leaders in concerned, both Terry and Jeff had the exact same number of top 5 and top 10 finishes, with the big differences being in the number of wins Jeff had, as well as the number of horrendous finishes. And as for Penske having the most reliable equipment in 1978, that might be true, but Tom Sneva was always a driver that took care of his equipment, which was why he was able to win championships without winning a lot of races (none in '78). Al Unser was the same way, which was why the lack of reliability of the cars he drove was such a surprise. On the other hand, Danny Ongais was a driver that would break his cars, if he didn't crash, because he drove them too hard. Back then, how a driver raced had a lot to do with whether or not his equipment lasted the duration of a race, and Sneva was a driver that wasn't hard on his equipment. 54. WinstonCup4Ever posted: 07.13.2014 - 10:37 am Rate this comment: (5) (2) Last race for Turner Sports. I'm going to miss them after the memories they have passed on. To me, 2002 was one of many spectacular seasons Turner was there to cover. Then teammates Earnhardt Jr and Steve Park wrecking on the backstretch at Pocono, the camera man would get a Golden Benny the following week for outstanding camera work during the crash, and then Rusty Wallace and Jeff Gordon dueling for the win at Bristol. Their are loads of memories I could share, but I want to keep it short. Thanks for the memories TBS and TNT. I hope to see you down the road. 55. numbah10hatah posted: 07.13.2014 - 11:02 am Rate this comment: (2) (2) THANK GOD THIS IS TNT'S LAST RACE... 56. 1995 Subaru WRX STi posted: 07.13.2014 - 11:19 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "I thought I already had. Oh well, no matter." I must not have been here when you did, sorry about that. "Actually 1995 Subaru, as far as I know, auto racing invented the points system as a means to determine a champion." You don't hear drivers say "glad we had a good points day." All you hear now is "i want too win too get a shot at the championship." I'd rather hear that then "we had a good points day." All i give a damn about is who won, screw who finished 2nd. I watch races too see who win (as well as my favorite drivers. Collecting trophies is the ONLY thing that matters too me. 57. cjs3872 posted: 07.13.2014 - 11:57 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Actually 1995 Subaru, for a number of the teams, it may be all about getting points, since those final spots in the Chase may very well be determined by points. They don't go out and say that it's a good points day any more, but that's not to say they're not paying attention to points, because they are. After all, after wins, the points standings are how the teams are seeded, so they're aware of how they're doing in terms of points. And after that, there is going to be at least one position among those that advance after the third, sixth, and ninth races in the Chase that will be determined by points, so points will be important, even in the Chase. If the teams can't win, they still need to get as good a finish as they can because they'll need the points if they don't win. And by the way, for the first time I can think of this year, scores of teams are having problems getting through the inspection line, and apparently with the same problem. Either all these teams are trying to fudge the rules in the exact same way, are there's some kind of problem with at least one of the inspecting devices. I'm betting on the second one of these possibilities being the case. And also, while they're talking about this being a track position and tactical race, I'm not sure it's going to be because of left rear tire issues a number of the teams appear to be having this weekend. It may be a case where everyone has to change four tires as often as possible as a safety precaution against these left rear tire issues. 58. dennyfan11 posted: 07.13.2014 - 12:31 pm Rate this comment: (0) (2) Time for a question for you all. What race do you think ended in the darkest conditions? This is not relevant to this race,but i think it is an interesting question. Another one I have. Why was the Watermelon Seed Eater comment removed? 59. Anonymous posted: 07.13.2014 - 12:53 pm Rate this comment: (3) (1) "Another one I have. Why was the Watermelon Seed Eater comment removed? " What is your retarded obsession with strange comments? 60. Watermelon Seed Eater posted: 07.13.2014 - 12:54 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) I'm going to sit down with my watermelon and root for David Ragan today! For those who do not know, David Ragan is from Umadilla, GA, the "Watermelon Capital" of the world. 61. The Crimson King posted: 07.13.2014 - 12:57 pm Rate this comment: (1) (1) I'm rooting for anyone but Jimmie. Unfortunately, I feel like it's gonna be one of "those" races. 62. dennyfan11 posted: 07.13.2014 - 12:57 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) "What is your retarded obsession with strange comments?" Why do you hate me so much? :(:(:(:(:(:( I like funny comments,who doesn't? 63. numbah10hatah's Danica Patrick horse posted: 07.13.2014 - 12:59 pm Rate this comment: (3) (0) Please don't shoot me! I'll call the SPCA! I just want to watch the race and enjoy rooting Austin Dillon, the "Cowboy Hat" 64. jabber1990 posted: 07.13.2014 - 1:00 pm Rate this comment: (0) (2) not trying to be racist, but why are they singing "o' Canada?" 65. Zackary Shawn posted: 07.13.2014 - 1:02 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Was that singing or talking in rhythm? 66. Schroeder51 posted: 07.13.2014 - 1:03 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Yeah, I get the feeling that Jimmie is going to lead 150+ laps en route to a dominant win... 67. The Long Shot posted: 07.13.2014 - 1:03 pm Rate this comment: (3) (0) IMO, it's a tremendous sign of disrespect for TNT to not show the performance of the Canadian national anthem. The lady singing that was significantly more talented than the one performing our national anthem. 68. David posted: 07.13.2014 - 1:03 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Why do you hate me so much?" Why are you so quick to jump to conclusions? "not trying to be racist, but why are they singing "o' Canada?"" That has nothing to do with racism. They've always sung the Canadian anthem here. 69. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.13.2014 - 1:04 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) "not trying to be racist, but why are they singing "o' Canada?" " Because many Canadians come to this race due to the close proximity of the track to our neighboring country. They do it at Buffalo Sabres games as well for the same reason even if a Canadian team isn't being played 70. dennyfan11 posted: 07.13.2014 - 1:04 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) ^no idea. Anyway,i have some questions. 1.What was the darkest conditions a race finished in? I think it is the 2000 Diehard 500 qualifying session. 2.What team had the most owners through the years? I think it is what ended up as Yates Racing. Owners were Ronnie Elder,than Elder and Harry Rainier,than just Rainier,than Rainier and J.T Lundy,than Robert Yates,and it ended as owned by Doug Yates. Place your answers in the comments below! 71. Zackary Shawn posted: 07.13.2014 - 1:04 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "not trying to be racist, but why are they singing "o' Canada?"" That's not racist by any stretch of the imagination, but the probably do it because it's the closest race to Canada. 72. numbah10hatah posted: 07.13.2014 - 1:05 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) They also sing "O Canada" at Michigan. 73. David posted: 07.13.2014 - 1:05 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "IMO, it's a tremendous sign of disrespect for TNT to not show the performance of the Canadian national anthem. The lady singing that was significantly more talented than the one performing our national anthem." It's their last race. I doubt they care anymore. 74. dennyfan11 posted: 07.13.2014 - 1:06 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) @66 "Why are you so quick to jump to conclusions?" I have seen many posts under that name which are against me. 75. numbah10hatah posted: 07.13.2014 - 1:07 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) New Hampshire is my favorite track to race at in NASCAR Thunder 2003. I always dominate :D . 76. David posted: 07.13.2014 - 1:08 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "1.What was the darkest conditions a race finished in? I think it is the 2000 Diehard 500 qualifying session." Some things are just better left unsaid. 77. dennyfan11 posted: 07.13.2014 - 1:08 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) @76 I think it is an interesting question! 78. cjs3872 posted: 07.13.2014 - 1:08 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) What kind of race are you talking about, The Crimson King (#61)? A race that Jimmie Johnson dominates or a race affected by, and possibly even shortened by rain (which is the last thing the teams want to see after last week), because the skies certainly don't look very friendly right now, and I think they could get some rain before the race is over. Also, the wind has really picked up, which could be another indicator of a storm being on the way. Let's hope that isn't the case, but this race may be one to between 151-200 laps to beat the potentially threatening weather, and not to the full 301 lap distance (151 laps being the point at which this race becomes official). 79. SpeedWorld97 posted: 07.13.2014 - 1:09 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Ken Squier!!!! 80. dennyfan11 posted: 07.13.2014 - 1:09 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) KEN!!! 81. numbah10hatah posted: 07.13.2014 - 1:09 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) OMG KEN SQUIER! 82. The Long Shot posted: 07.13.2014 - 1:09 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Ken Squier! Hell to the f*cking yes! 83. Schroeder51 posted: 07.13.2014 - 1:09 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Ken Squier! 84. Zackary Shawn posted: 07.13.2014 - 1:11 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Jimmie Johnson isn't even all that good at New Hampshire. He only has three wins here and non of them were that dominant. 85. Zackary Shawn posted: 07.13.2014 - 1:13 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I think it's more likely Danny Hamlin wins today, or maybe even Tony Stewart. 86. Zackary Shawn posted: 07.13.2014 - 1:18 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Also, if I remember correctly, this was actually one of the best races of 2013. 87. dennyfan11 posted: 07.13.2014 - 1:18 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Kyle busch leads to the green! 88. Schroeder51 posted: 07.13.2014 - 1:18 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Kyle Busch leads the first lap. 89. ii posted: 07.13.2014 - 1:19 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I would really love to see Ken Squier do another race, maybe by himself like Vin Scully does for the Dodgers. 90. cjs3872 posted: 07.13.2014 - 1:19 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) When did anyone named Elder own that team, dennyfan11? That team started as the second on Harry Ranier owned when Jim Vandiver drove the car in 1977 with Vandiver's familiar #31 as the car number. (Ranier had previously been the car owner for Gary Bettenhausen's Daytona 500 debut in 1967.) Then when Ranier hired Lennie Pond to drive for him in 1978, the car number changed from Vandiver's #31 to Pond's #54, and then when Lennie was released following the 1978 season, the car number changed to the #28 that drivers such as Buddy Baker, Benny Parsons, Cale Yarborough, and Bobby and Davey Allison made famous before Ranier sold his team to Robert Yates for the 1989 season. Ranier later made a third try at being a team owner in 1996-'97, starting a Busch Series team with Tony Stewart, who you may have heard of (and who he once predicted would have a win total similar to Cale Yarborough and Bobby Allison), and then returned to the Cup Series in 1997 with Greg Sacks, even bringing his old sponsor Hardees back for the Cup effort, which was short-lived. And by the way, wasn't it great to see and hear Ken Squier for the short time he was on the broadcast? 91. murb posted: 07.13.2014 - 1:20 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Biffle has a tire rub already. 92. Schroeder51 posted: 07.13.2014 - 1:20 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Greg Biffle's car is smoking. 93. numbah10hatah posted: 07.13.2014 - 1:20 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Greg Biffle has a tire rub. 94. The Long Shot posted: 07.13.2014 - 1:20 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Biffle's smoking heavily. 95. The Long Shot posted: 07.13.2014 - 1:21 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Johnson with a flat. 96. Chad's Hair Plugs posted: 07.13.2014 - 1:21 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) YES YES!! 97. Schroeder51 posted: 07.13.2014 - 1:21 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Johnson has a flat tire! 98. murb posted: 07.13.2014 - 1:21 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Jimmie has a left rear flat now. Wow, something is going on with these tires. 99. numbah10hatah posted: 07.13.2014 - 1:21 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Johnson has a flat tire!!! *starts a little victory dance* 100. Schroeder51 posted: 07.13.2014 - 1:22 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I'm guessing there's going to be a LOT of flat tires today... 101. Chad's Hair Plugs posted: 07.13.2014 - 1:22 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) And by the way, wasn't it great to see and hear Ken Squier for the short time he was on the broadcast? According to the TNT pre-race, Ken is running the PA for NHMS today. 102. Schroeder51 posted: 07.13.2014 - 1:22 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Mike Bliss goes behind the wall. 103. David posted: 07.13.2014 - 1:22 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Johnson with left-rear tire issues. 104. dennyfan11 posted: 07.13.2014 - 1:22 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) Harry Rainier became co owner of the Ronnie Elder team in 1978,and purchased full ownershi in 1979. I have a collection of NAScar yearbooks that say this. Anyway,all of your predictions are wrong. Nap-Time blows a tire,almost a lap down. 105. The Crimson King posted: 07.13.2014 - 1:23 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) @cjs I was talking about a Jimmie Johnson type of dominating race. He's been fast in practice and qualified up front, so it only seems natural to me. 106. numbah10hatah posted: 07.13.2014 - 1:24 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Schroeder51: Did you expect anything different? I mean, Mike Bliss is essentially driving Alex Bowman's back-up car. 107. dennyfan11 posted: 07.13.2014 - 1:25 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Caution. 108. Jacques posted: 07.13.2014 - 1:25 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Johnson had a flat tire? I'm on my way!! 109. Zackary Shawn posted: 07.13.2014 - 1:25 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) MRN's Dustin Long (much more likeable than his collegue, BTW) tweeted this before the start: "@dustinlong: #NASCAR â?¦ Denny Hamlin on radio: "Wow. The 48 car is low, low on (air) pressure." #AskMRN @MRNRadio" Sounds like Denny knew what he was talking about. 110. dennyfan11 posted: 07.13.2014 - 1:25 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Johnson hit the wall actually. 111. SpeedWorld97 posted: 07.13.2014 - 1:25 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "According to the TNT pre-race, Ken is running the PA for NHMS today." He always does for Nationwide and Sprint Cup races at Charlotte, and it's always great to hear that he still has a passion for calling NASCAR races. 112. Schroeder51 posted: 07.13.2014 - 1:26 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Apparently Johnson just slammed the wall HARD to bring out the caution. 113. dennyfan11 posted: 07.13.2014 - 1:26 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Ha's out. 114. The Long Shot posted: 07.13.2014 - 1:26 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Johnson apparently just pounded the wall. 115. murb posted: 07.13.2014 - 1:26 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Jimmie crashed hard for the caution. 116. Chad's Hair Plugs posted: 07.13.2014 - 1:26 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Too bad its the July race and not September. 117. The Crimson King posted: 07.13.2014 - 1:26 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Welp, there goes my credibility. 118. Schroeder51 posted: 07.13.2014 - 1:26 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Damn, two flat tires in under 15 laps on Johnson's car?! 119. numbah10hatah posted: 07.13.2014 - 1:26 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) *activates Daniel Bryan mode* YES!! YES! YES!!! 120. dennyfan11 posted: 07.13.2014 - 1:27 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Johnson just slammed the wall and he's done for the day. There goes all your predictions. Something tells me that this will be a crazy race 121. David posted: 07.13.2014 - 1:27 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Jacques didn't arrive in time. 122. The Long Shot posted: 07.13.2014 - 1:27 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Shepherd just stalled it. 123. ii posted: 07.13.2014 - 1:27 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) NOS really needs a better motto than that. 124. Schroeder51 posted: 07.13.2014 - 1:27 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Welp, there goes my credibility." Welcome to the club; I lost my credibility a long time ago. Morgan Shepherd stalled on the track. 125. dennyfan11 posted: 07.13.2014 - 1:28 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Now,who said he would win? 126. The Long Shot posted: 07.13.2014 - 1:28 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) This is turning into Fontana 2.0. 127. Schroeder51 posted: 07.13.2014 - 1:29 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Bold prediction: 10+ cautions today due to accidents and debris from blown tires. 128. David posted: 07.13.2014 - 1:29 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Schroeder51: Did you expect anything different? I mean, Mike Bliss is essentially driving Alex Bowman's back-up car." Chill. Schroeder was just stating what had happened. You know, kind of like what we're all doing. 129. numbah10hatah posted: 07.13.2014 - 1:30 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I know, David. I was just being a smart-ass. ;) 130. numbah10hatah posted: 07.13.2014 - 1:31 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) dennyfan11: I believe I picked Keselowski to win today. 131. Zackary Shawn posted: 07.13.2014 - 1:31 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) If Mike Bliss came back out and ran another couple of laps, Jimmie Johnson would most likely have his first ever last place finish. But two 42nds in a row has to be an all time low for Jimmie. 132. Dave #38 Fan-Go Gilliland! posted: 07.13.2014 - 1:32 pm Rate this comment: (1) (1) Why couldn't this happen in the September race? 133. numbah10hatah posted: 07.13.2014 - 1:32 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) YUP. My prediction is still intact. :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D I'm done. 134. murb posted: 07.13.2014 - 1:32 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Despite what Jimmie just said in his interview, it sounds like the low air pressure caused it. Can't remember the last time Knaus blundered on a race setup right out of the gate like that. 135. The Long Shot posted: 07.13.2014 - 1:33 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Jimmie's trying to take a few shots at "the haters". 136. Schroeder51 posted: 07.13.2014 - 1:33 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Hamlin doesn't get a good restart and loses a few spots. 137. David posted: 07.13.2014 - 1:35 pm Rate this comment: (2) (0) "Now,who said he would win?" For someone who apparently doesn't want to be hated, you're doing a great job of alienating people. 138. murb posted: 07.13.2014 - 1:35 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Denny is seriously one of the slowest drivers on restarts in the whole series. 139. The Crimson King posted: 07.13.2014 - 1:35 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Holy crap Jr is moving up through the field. I figured he'd have a mediocre day after qualifying back in the pack. 140. dennyfan11 posted: 07.13.2014 - 1:36 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) @137 Sorry for all who were offended. What can I do to be more liked? no one wants to answer my trivia questions,and no one responded to my Ultra Gimmicky NASCAR post. 141. numbah10hatah posted: 07.13.2014 - 1:36 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) If Mike Bliss can come on the track and run 6 more laps... 142. dennyfan11 posted: 07.13.2014 - 1:37 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I did not mean to be mean,i was just saying that your predictions were false. 143. murb posted: 07.13.2014 - 1:37 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "What can I do to be more liked? no one wants to answer my trivia questions,and no one responded to my Ultra Gimmicky NASCAR post." Stop trying so hard and just watch the race. Let the conversation flow naturally. 144. The Crimson King posted: 07.13.2014 - 1:38 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Don't try to actively be liked. That's the best way to be hated. 145. Schroeder51 posted: 07.13.2014 - 1:38 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Looks like the Gibbs cars are the ones to beat right now. I'm sure that'll change, though... 146. dennyfan11 posted: 07.13.2014 - 1:39 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) @143 I just am trying to set up a comment that can spark a conversation. 147. The Long Shot posted: 07.13.2014 - 1:40 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "@137 Sorry for all who were offended. What can I do to be more liked? no one wants to answer my trivia questions,and no one responded to my Ultra Gimmicky NASCAR post." Use me as an example on what not to do. Don't force the issue. 148. numbah10hatah posted: 07.13.2014 - 1:41 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Dude, dennyfan11, just chillax, bro. Don't ask so many questions. Just bullshit about the race. Or, as we often do on these comment threads, bullshit about something completely irrelevant to the race, like your favorite video games or something like that. 149. Schroeder51 posted: 07.13.2014 - 1:43 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Gordon is starting to back up a bit. He's lost two spots in the past few laps and is about to lose a few more. 150. dennyfan11 posted: 07.13.2014 - 1:44 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I do chillax. I have tried to provoke conversation. I posted some pretty good satire about Extremely Gimmicky NASCAR. I have also made a few trivia questions which i hoped you would want to answer. No one reacted to any of those. 151. numbah10hatah's Danica Patrick horse posted: 07.13.2014 - 1:46 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Things are looking up for me for once! 152. The Crimson King posted: 07.13.2014 - 1:47 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I'm guessing that Gordon has a short run car today. 153. Watermelon Seed Eater posted: 07.13.2014 - 1:47 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Let's go David Ragan! Woot man! 154. Zackary Shawn posted: 07.13.2014 - 1:47 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I have a feeling, dennyfan11, that you are probably one of the youngest people on this site because your comments lack a certain maturity, in both style and content, that is (usually...) present in these comment boards, . My advice: come up with a pertinent, well thought out comment about what's going on in the race or reply to something that someone has already said that you agree or disagree with. 155. Apple Seed Eater posted: 07.13.2014 - 1:48 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Got to root for Biffle! Washington's apples are the best! Erp! Cyanide!!!! *choking* 156. David posted: 07.13.2014 - 1:48 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) For future reference, don't ask trivia questions just before the race. No one wants to take the time to answer them when they want to watch the race. 157. The Long Shot posted: 07.13.2014 - 1:48 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "I do chillax. I have tried to provoke conversation. I posted some pretty good satire about Extremely Gimmicky NASCAR. I have also made a few trivia questions which i hoped you would want to answer. No one reacted to any of those." Because you came off as childish and immature while trying to get people to react to them. 158. Schroeder51 posted: 07.13.2014 - 1:49 pm Rate this comment: (5) (0) ...Apple Seed Eater!? This needs to stop. Now. 159. Chad's Hair Plugs posted: 07.13.2014 - 1:50 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Look at that gaggle the leaders are trying to sift through. 160. numbah10hatah posted: 07.13.2014 - 1:50 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Dude, dennyfan11, you're not going to get a response to every single question, so don't expect one. Some people might not know the answers to your questions, or maybe are just too lazy to look up the answers, like I am. So, don't ask so many questions. 161. dennyfan11 posted: 07.13.2014 - 1:51 pm Rate this comment: (1) (2) How DO I create a reactable comment? I think my comments are very conversation provoking. 162. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.13.2014 - 1:51 pm Rate this comment: (2) (1) I came onto this page. Almost died from the combination of the satirical posts and the thrill of Jimmie DNF'ing. 163. Zackary Shawn posted: 07.13.2014 - 1:51 pm Rate this comment: (4) (0) Also, dennyfan11, don't get upset when people don't reply to you. I would estimate that 95% of all comments on here don't have a someone respond to them. I'm also sure that everyone on here has, at one point or another, left a comment that they thought was going to be clever or a big hit, but drew no reaction whatsoever. 164. NRF official @$$ hat of RR posted: 07.13.2014 - 1:52 pm Rate this comment: (1) (1) "Also, dennyfan11, don't get upset when people don't reply to you. I would estimate that 95% of all comments on here don't have a someone respond to them. I'm also sure that everyone on here has, at one point or another, left a comment that they thought was going to be clever or a big hit, but drew no reaction whatsoever. " Timing is the issue. If the comment is appropriate and in good taste, it will go over well. In other words, don't be me. 165. Schroeder51 posted: 07.13.2014 - 1:52 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Of course, I'm expecting the trolls to ignore me or see my comment as a challenge, and next thing you know we'll have a Pumpkin Seed Eater and an Orange Seed Eater. 166. The Crimson King posted: 07.13.2014 - 1:53 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) @Dennyfan just watch what we do and emulate that. What you're trying to do is force people to notice you, which just pisses people off. You're probably pretty young and there's nothing wrong with that, but young people generally have a hard time "getting" the kind of conversation we have here. Just be patient and have fun commenting on the race. If no one responds to you, no big deal, it's not an attack on your character. 167. numbah10hatah posted: 07.13.2014 - 1:53 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Anyone else think that Kyle Busch's car is ugly?? 168. The Long Shot posted: 07.13.2014 - 1:53 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I'm not going to say anything about the troll posts other than that your guys' arguments against moving to the forums are waning with each passing race. 169. numbah10hatah posted: 07.13.2014 - 1:53 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) NO, SCHROEDER, DON'T ENCOURAGE THEM!! 170. The Crimson King posted: 07.13.2014 - 1:54 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Holy crap Gordon is back to 18th. 171. Carpaccio Eater posted: 07.13.2014 - 1:54 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Of course, I'm expecting the trolls to ignore me or see my comment as a challenge, and next thing you know we'll have a Pumpkin Seed Eater and an Orange Seed Eater. " Nah. I enjoy the raw beef. Moo, buddy; moo. 172. The Long Shot posted: 07.13.2014 - 1:55 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Timing is the issue. If the comment is appropriate and in good taste, it will go over well. In other words, don't be me." I gut-laughed at this. 173. numbah10hatah posted: 07.13.2014 - 1:55 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) ....too late. 174. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.13.2014 - 1:56 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) "I gut-laughed at this. " *punch* *noogie* 175. Schroeder51 posted: 07.13.2014 - 1:57 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Denny Hamlin is now the leader. And Jeff Gordon's car is fading like a rock. He's faded all the way back to 24th and Danica is about to blow by him. 176. The Crimson King posted: 07.13.2014 - 1:57 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) I think Jeff Gordon has a serious problem. Like, a really serious problem. Danica Patrick just passed him. 177. David posted: 07.13.2014 - 1:58 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The troll posts actually wouldn't be an issue if everybody could just not acknowledge them. And if I believed that that wouldn't do any good, I would support moving to the forums. 178. Zackary Shawn posted: 07.13.2014 - 1:58 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "And Jeff Gordon's car is fading like a rock. He's faded all the way back to 24th and Danica is about to blow by him." If this was 2012-2013, we would never hear from Jeff the rest of the race. But this is 2014. He'll be back up there before it's over. 179. numbah10hatah posted: 07.13.2014 - 1:59 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) @JeffGordonWeb on Twitter: "This ****** thing is undrivable, I'm just trying to not get wrecked." @EddieDHondt - "We see it. Doing a great job." #Team24 180. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.13.2014 - 2:00 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) "The troll posts actually wouldn't be an issue if everybody could just not acknowledge them. And if I believed that that wouldn't do any good, I would support moving to the forums. " There is a difference between trolls and TROLLS. TROLLS look to anger; trolls just want to make eyes roll. 181. Zackary Shawn posted: 07.13.2014 - 2:00 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Personally, I don't mind the trolls if they make humorous comments that actually have a degree of relevancy to the race. 182. numbah10hatah's Danica Patrick horse posted: 07.13.2014 - 2:01 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Let's just keep the trolls on a personal level. No! My back! No! Ouch! 183. Schroeder51 posted: 07.13.2014 - 2:01 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Bold prediction: Junior will be the new points leader after today's race. 184. numbah10hatah posted: 07.13.2014 - 2:03 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) As long as they aren't annoying as f**k, I don't mind the trolls. That being said, my Danica Patrick horse, I find hilarious. 185. Schroeder51 posted: 07.13.2014 - 2:04 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I have this bad feeling in my gut that Jacques is going to make an appearance soon...I HOPE I'm wrong! 186. The Crimson King posted: 07.13.2014 - 2:04 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Jeff would have to have a pretty bad finish for Jr to have the points lead. He'll likely take out a huge chunk of it, like within -5 points but I don't think he'll overtake Gordon. 187. dennyfan11 posted: 07.13.2014 - 2:04 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Most trolls I find pretty funny,ecxept for the ones that offend others. 188. dennyfan11 posted: 07.13.2014 - 2:05 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Oh no,audio skipping. 189. Schroeder51 posted: 07.13.2014 - 2:06 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) TNT is having audio problems again having audio problems again! 190. Zackary Shawn posted: 07.13.2014 - 2:06 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Jeff Gordon's Twitter page says he had a flat tire when he came in during that stop. 191. numbah10hatah's Danica Patrick horse posted: 07.13.2014 - 2:08 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Oooooooof! Offffffffffffffffff! My back hurts! Let me just root for Austin, please! No one gets the Mister Ed references! 192. numbah10hatah posted: 07.13.2014 - 2:08 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Off-topic: Anyone here have a twitter? I just got one. Follow me @numbah10hatah On-topic: Keselowski, my pick to win, takes the lead. 193. Schroeder51 posted: 07.13.2014 - 2:08 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Keselowski takes the lead in traffic. 194. dennyfan11 posted: 07.13.2014 - 2:08 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Kez in the lead. 195. numbah10hatah posted: 07.13.2014 - 2:09 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) N10H'sDPH: Probably because Mr. Ed is older than most of us commenting. 196. murb posted: 07.13.2014 - 2:10 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Am I the only one who didn't have TNT skip? 197. Schroeder51 posted: 07.13.2014 - 2:10 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Danica is about to pass Jeff for position again. 198. numbah10hatah posted: 07.13.2014 - 2:11 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) murb: Nope. I didn't notice the skipping. 199. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.13.2014 - 2:11 pm Rate this comment: (1) (3) For anyone interested, a professional race is coming on right now! TUSCC on FS1! 200. Chad's Hair Plugs posted: 07.13.2014 - 2:12 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Am I the only one who didn't have TNT skip? I didn't have it either. I think every commentator just happened to stutter in that brief break between commercials. 201. murb posted: 07.13.2014 - 2:13 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Gordon is having one of the worst runs of his career. 202. The Crimson King posted: 07.13.2014 - 2:14 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) I'm amazed we're having a green flag run like this. I love it! (Of course that's my inner F1 fan talking...) 203. Chad's Hair Plugs posted: 07.13.2014 - 2:16 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) That break was 4 laps, and not road course laps either. There's a difference between being a lame duck and just saying "We don't give a f***" 204. Schroeder51 posted: 07.13.2014 - 2:16 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "I love it! (Of course that's my inner F1 fan talking...)" Not to worry, Jacques will probably show up within 25 laps to spoil the fun. 205. Sean posted: 07.13.2014 - 2:18 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) "For anyone interested, a professional race is coming on right now! TUSCC on FS1!" Aren't most people who are critical of NASCAR also critical of the Tudor Series for a lot of the same gimmickry, its NASCAR ownership, its greater number of caution periods than most road racing historically, and its questionable balance of performance? It's hard to call this series professional and say NASCAR is not. I would call them both professional series that are unprofessionally run. Professional just means the drivers and teams are professional, which they are. If you're going to criticize the officiating, I'm not sure I trust ANY racing officiating anymore. And I say this liking Jordan Taylor more than anyone in NASCAR... 206. SpeedWorld97 posted: 07.13.2014 - 2:19 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "For anyone interested, a professional race is coming on right now! TUSCC on FS1!" I hope Oak Racing gets redemption after their crushing defeat at Watkins Glen. 207. murb posted: 07.13.2014 - 2:19 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "There's a difference between being a lame duck and just saying "We don't give a f***"" With BSPN looming, we haven't seen anything yet when it comes to phoning it in. 208. Jacques posted: 07.13.2014 - 2:19 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I'm here!!!! 209. murb posted: 07.13.2014 - 2:19 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Caution for rubber on the track. 210. Jacques posted: 07.13.2014 - 2:19 pm Rate this comment: (2) (0) Boring green flag run? here i am! 211. The Crimson King posted: 07.13.2014 - 2:20 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) UGH There goes my fun. 212. Chad's Hair Plugs posted: 07.13.2014 - 2:20 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Not to worry, Jacques will probably show up within 25 laps to spoil the fun Jacques took the express lane in. 213. Schroeder51 posted: 07.13.2014 - 2:20 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Sadly, I was right. Jacques is here... Never mind, the caution flag is for debris...that is OUT of the racing groove. 214. The Crimson King posted: 07.13.2014 - 2:20 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) @210 Green flag runs are never boring! 215. epzik8 posted: 07.13.2014 - 2:21 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Not very many cautions so far... 216. Sean posted: 07.13.2014 - 2:21 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) "With BSPN looming, we haven't seen anything yet when it comes to phoning it in." They were phoning it in since they got coverage back in 2007. I'd say they were even phoning it in during the late Bob Jenkins years (ESPN's coverage from 1998-2000 seemed worse to me in retrospect than what came before...) I've been reading an interesting but long book on the history on ESPN and I can say this very confidently: Mark Shapiro ruined ESPN. It doesn't look like it is redeemable. 217. Jacques posted: 07.13.2014 - 2:21 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I have a twin??? 218. David posted: 07.13.2014 - 2:22 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) numbah10hatah: You have many followers already. How? 219. Schroeder51 posted: 07.13.2014 - 2:22 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Personally, I was hoping this race would go all the way to the checkered flag without another yellow flag... 220. dennyfan11 posted: 07.13.2014 - 2:22 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Green flag runs aren't boring,but this race is. 221. JG24FanForever posted: 07.13.2014 - 2:23 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I've been asleep the whole time. That's the reason Gordon is doing so bad. Now it's time to rocket through the field!! 222. Zackary Shawn posted: 07.13.2014 - 2:24 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "@210 Green flag runs are never boring!" I'm not saying I like fake yellows because I don't, but really? Never boring? Could not disagree more. What about the ones where everyone is on the same pit strategy and one car (usually the 48) has a 5+ second lead? That's the definition of boring, IMO. 223. numbah10hatah posted: 07.13.2014 - 2:25 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) David: Well, a whole bunch of people I don't know followed me...just look at my followers. One of my followers that I thoroughly enjoy even though I don't know him personally is Dustin Hapka, who drove the #74 truck on Friday night. :D 224. jabber1990 posted: 07.13.2014 - 2:25 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I worry, this next TV Package has $8B, how do we know they won't have more commercials? I was away from the sport from 2007-2009 (I did catch a few races though) were TNT and ESPN the same embarrassment back then that they are today? disclaimer: if the word "embarrassment" is too slander, I apoligize, please correct my adjective 225. murb posted: 07.13.2014 - 2:25 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "They were phoning it in since they got coverage back in 2007." Oh, I absolutely agree. I'm just saying that now that they're a lame duck, it's going to get even more pathetic. Can't wait until they're gone. 226. Schroeder51 posted: 07.13.2014 - 2:26 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Gordon took the wavearound. Not sure how well that's going to work seeing as he's on old tires and there haven't been very many cautions... 227. Schroeder51 posted: 07.13.2014 - 2:27 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Kyle Larson leads on the restart after not pitting. That may not last long... 228. Zackary Shawn posted: 07.13.2014 - 2:27 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "I worry, this next TV Package has $8B, how do we know they won't have more commercials?" I hate to break it too you, but there's no way that there won't be more commercials. Unless the broadcasts decide to make less money off of NASCAR, which we all know won't happen. 229. The Crimson King posted: 07.13.2014 - 2:27 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) @222 You usually at least have a few people catching and passing each other during the run. Of course, there are occassionally some boring green flag runs but I'll take those over fake excitement by cautions every 10 laps. 230. murb posted: 07.13.2014 - 2:28 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Larson is hanging in there with old tires. 231. dennyfan11 posted: 07.13.2014 - 2:28 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Larson leads. 232. Schroeder51 posted: 07.13.2014 - 2:28 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Kenseth moves the second. Meanwhile, Larson continues to hold the lead. 233. Sean posted: 07.13.2014 - 2:28 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Well, I'll admit that was the first time Kyle Larson actually impressed me as a Cup driver. He still hasn't made a natural pass for the lead all season yet though... Kyle never passed him, and Matt is probably going to promptly. 234. The Crimson King posted: 07.13.2014 - 2:29 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I know there was someone who mentioned they wouldn't be impressed with Larson unless he took over the lead under green w/o pit stops, but I think holding off Kyle Busch was extremely impressive there. 235. numbah10hatah posted: 07.13.2014 - 2:30 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Timmy Hill is out of the race. 236. Schroeder51 posted: 07.13.2014 - 2:30 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Kenseth is going for the lead and takes it. But in the meantime, Keselowski is coming... 237. Sean posted: 07.13.2014 - 2:31 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) It's just in relation to his hype. I admit he's the best of the current rookies. I'll even admit he's the best rookie since Hamlin in '06, but that's really not saying a lot. When people are hyping him as the next Jeff Gordon or whatever (especially USAC/grassroots dirt fans), I just compare him to what Gordon actually did, and he fought for the lead a lot more even as a rookie... But yes, I'm impressed he won that duel with the more experienced Kyle. 238. DB1995 posted: 07.13.2014 - 2:31 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Brad has moved from 10th to 3rd 239. The Crimson King posted: 07.13.2014 - 2:31 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Oh yeah I agree he's overhyped, but Nascar desperately needs new blood so I'm excited for what Larson can do in a couple of years. 240. Sean posted: 07.13.2014 - 2:32 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Penske learned its lesson from last night's IndyCar race when RHR came out of nowhere with 4 fresh tires to pass all the Ganassi and Penske cars that dominated the race... 241. Zackary Shawn posted: 07.13.2014 - 2:32 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Brad's going to win this race, holding all things constant (which often isn't the case). 242. epzik8 posted: 07.13.2014 - 2:32 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) And Larson is dropping back. 243. dennyfan11 posted: 07.13.2014 - 2:33 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Larson falls back. 244. DB1995 posted: 07.13.2014 - 2:34 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I would be more impressed if They had equal air pressures and if clean air didnt mean so much i mean you probably put David Ragan up front and he lead like 10 laps 245. Sean posted: 07.13.2014 - 2:35 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "I'll even admit he's the best rookie since Hamlin in '06, but that's really not saying a lot." I'm neglecting Brad Keselowski because he was never an official ROTY candidate, but I was more impressed by Brad in 2009 than I am with Kyle now... I was NOT more impressed with Logano, but he's certainly better than Larson at the moment. 246. numbah10hatah posted: 07.13.2014 - 2:35 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Kenseth has trash on the grille. 247. Schroeder51 posted: 07.13.2014 - 2:35 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) If things stay the way they are, Brad is going to win this one going away. 248. Dave #38 Fan-Go Gilliland! posted: 07.13.2014 - 2:36 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Well, I'll admit that was the first time Kyle Larson actually impressed me as a Cup driver. He still hasn't made a natural pass for the lead all season yet though" We'll never know what could have been for Larson at Richmond had Bowyer not been an asshole and dive-bombed the 1st turn on the 1st lap and took him out. 249. Sean posted: 07.13.2014 - 2:36 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "I would be more impressed if They had equal air pressures and if clean air didnt mean so much i mean you probably put David Ragan up front and he lead like 10 laps" Ragan no, but I get your point. I am a lot more impressed by passes for the lead than retaining a lead, but that's still the most impressive thing Larson has done yet this season in Cup. I'll certainly be more impressed when he makes a pass for the lead (I just think his equipment is capable of it if McMurray can win the all-star race...) 250. Sean posted: 07.13.2014 - 2:37 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "We'll never know what could have been for Larson at Richmond had Bowyer not been an asshole and dive-bombed the 1st turn on the 1st lap and took him out." Now that's a fair point. Montoya almost won that race last year... 251. Chad's Hair Plugs posted: 07.13.2014 - 2:37 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I worry, this next TV Package has $8B, how do we know they won't have more commercials? I feel it won't be an extravagant amount since Fox and NBC will be splitting both the Cup and (insert new title here) Series duties in the next deal. Since most races are companion now, both networks will be able to absorb the cost of producing both races on a weekend as NESPN has to deal with now. Turner also pays $80 million a year for 6 Cup races before paying for production and talent; which they don't have the existing resources compared to NESPN/Fox/NBC. In 8 years, TNT was never to create any kind of rhythm of showing the race along with commercials and recouping their investment. NESPN and Fox have their fair share of commercials but I feel for the most part they've been better in creating a flow to the race than TNT's choppy coverage. 252. Sean posted: 07.13.2014 - 2:39 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "NESPN" Okay, you're obviously making fun of them just like the people who write BSPN, but what is the first N supposed to stand for? 253. Schroeder51 posted: 07.13.2014 - 2:41 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Keselowski has already pulled out to a 3 second lead over Kenseth. I wouldn't be shocked if that was NASCAR's cue to throw another Jacques caution... 254. Chad's Hair Plugs posted: 07.13.2014 - 2:42 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Okay, you're obviously making fun of them just like the people who write BSPN, but what is the first N supposed to stand for? I'm a New Yorker, so its a play on New England Sports Network(NESN), since both networks share the same adulation for everything Boston. 255. The Crimson King posted: 07.13.2014 - 2:42 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) I just realized, Stenhouse is having a run that isn't complete garbage. 256. Jacques posted: 07.13.2014 - 2:43 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I'm baaaaaaaaaack!! 257. dennyfan11 posted: 07.13.2014 - 2:44 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Jacques has arrived. 258. murb posted: 07.13.2014 - 2:44 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Jeff Burton is outrunning Dillon, Ambrose, and Biffle. Definitely cool to see that since this may be his last race. Water bottle caution. 259. Anonymous posted: 07.13.2014 - 2:44 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Caution for a water bottle on track. 260. Schroeder51 posted: 07.13.2014 - 2:44 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) ...and Jacques makes his appearance just as Larson, Gordon, and Patrick are about to pit. Please don't tell me all the rest of the cautions in this race are going to be for Jacques...? 261. Chad's Hair Plugs posted: 07.13.2014 - 2:44 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) At this point, we should just guess the lap number the debris caution is thrown and the winner gets a prize. 262. Zackary Shawn posted: 07.13.2014 - 2:45 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Of course they're talking about Jeff Burton and showing the 31 car. Catch up, TNT! 263. Schroeder51 posted: 07.13.2014 - 2:45 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) TNT is talking about how this may be Jeff Burton's last race...while the camera was focusing on Ryan Newman's #31, the car he drove last year. 264. epzik8 posted: 07.13.2014 - 2:45 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Gordon, Larson and Burton are saved. 265. Jacques Twin posted: 07.13.2014 - 2:45 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Larson fading? I'm on my way! 266. murb posted: 07.13.2014 - 2:46 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) This is a great break for Larson though. Now he can get on the same strategy as the leaders and probably stay up front. 267. DB1995 posted: 07.13.2014 - 2:46 pm Rate this comment: (2) (0) Ooh that helped Danica Gordon and Larson, Good BS caution that just happened to help out 3 of NASCARs favorites 268. Schroeder51 posted: 07.13.2014 - 2:46 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) A lot of two tire stops. Keselowski was the only driver out of the top 10 leaving the pits to take 4. 269. murb posted: 07.13.2014 - 2:47 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Brad Keselowski, the most pit road mistake prone Cup champion in history, pits at a weird angle and loses a bunch of spots. 270. The Crimson King posted: 07.13.2014 - 2:47 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) This kind of race just seems like it belongs to Brad, unless someone plays the fuel mileage game. Of course, he could get stuck in traffic with him taking 4 tires all the time. 271. murb posted: 07.13.2014 - 2:48 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Ooh that helped Danica Gordon and Larson, Good BS caution that just happened to help out 3 of NASCARs favorites" How is Larson one of Nascar's favorites? 272. murb posted: 07.13.2014 - 2:49 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) McMurray and Logano make contact on the restart, Bowyer to the lead. 273. DB1995 posted: 07.13.2014 - 2:49 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Everyone in NASCAR LOVES Larson especially the media 274. Schroeder51 posted: 07.13.2014 - 2:49 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Errr, never mind, that was Kyle Busch who left the pits in the top 10 after a four tire stop. We nearly have a huge crash on the restart, and Bowyer sneaks to the lead. 275. numbah10hatah posted: 07.13.2014 - 2:50 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) NO. NOT BOWYER. 276. Schroeder51 posted: 07.13.2014 - 2:50 pm Rate this comment: (2) (0) REALLY hope that Bowyer doesn't win today; as I've said before, after "Spingate" last year I've lost pretty much any respect I had for him and Michael Waltrip. 277. DB1995 posted: 07.13.2014 - 2:51 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Brad isnt gonna be able to win if he takes 4 every single time 278. murb posted: 07.13.2014 - 2:55 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) I also hope Bowyer doesn't win, but mainly because he's done next to nothing all year and doesn't really deserve to be in the Chase. 279. Schroeder51 posted: 07.13.2014 - 2:57 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "I also hope Bowyer doesn't win, but mainly because he's done next to nothing all year and doesn't really deserve to be in the Chase." He will probably get in the Chase anyways due to points (barring a miracle, I don't see us getting 16 or more winners by the time we get to the Chase), but even so, I would have to agree that he wouldn't be deserving of making the Chase. 280. Jacques posted: 07.13.2014 - 2:59 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I am bacK! 281. murb posted: 07.13.2014 - 2:59 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Another caution for rubber on the race track. Wish Bruton Smith would just go away. 282. Sean posted: 07.13.2014 - 3:00 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) If there must be a Chase, it should be more exclusive. If you're going to have an elimination-based Chase, how about having 8 drivers qualify, cutting it to 4 after 4 races, and cutting it to 2 after 7 races? Stewart and Edwards sure had a compelling three-race battle. It doesn't HAVE to be a winner-take all extravaganza. I'd prefer there to be no Chase at all, but one of the issues is that it's not exclusive enough so there are always some relative mediocrities making it. 283. Schroeder51 posted: 07.13.2014 - 3:00 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Once AGAIN the caution comes out for tire debris outside the racing groove. Seriously, if I'm actually RIGHT that all the remaining cautions in this race will be for questionable debris cautions, I'm going to be pissed. 284. 111111 posted: 07.13.2014 - 3:01 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Clint bowyer is more deserving of a chase spot than Ryan Newman, Greg Biffle, Tony Stewart, and Aric Almirola... Remember it's the top 16, there's gonna be underwhelming drivers in the chase... 285. The Long Shot posted: 07.13.2014 - 3:01 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Everyone in NASCAR LOVES Larson especially the media" More than Cowboy Hat? C'mon, man... 286. Sean posted: 07.13.2014 - 3:01 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) "Wish Bruton Smith would just go away." I was surprised he was so outspoken against the RTA considering how often he used to threaten to secede from NASCAR in the '90s. He is quite the hypocrite. 287. Zackary Shawn posted: 07.13.2014 - 3:01 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Another caution for rubber on the race track. Wish Bruton Smith would just go away." Rubber the official didn't even pick up. He walked completely the other way and picked something up. 288. The Crimson King posted: 07.13.2014 - 3:03 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) @284 if we're going to have this format, why not have it be just the top 10? How many guys in a given year can we say are deserving for a shot at a championship, 3-4? Guys running in 15th in points are there for a reason. 289. Zackary Shawn posted: 07.13.2014 - 3:05 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) "More than Cowboy Hat? C'mon, man..." If you live in New York City, the media is biased in favor of the Red Sox. If you live in Boston, the media is biased in favor of the Yankees. If you are conservative, MSNBC is the biased network. If you are liberal, Fox News is the biased network. If you like Dillon, the media is biased in favor of Larson. If you like Larson, the media is biased in favor of Dillon. That, my friends, is the way the world works. 290. Sean posted: 07.13.2014 - 3:06 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) What about those of us who think the media is biased in favor of BOTH Larson and Dillon? 291. The Crimson King posted: 07.13.2014 - 3:06 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Stenhouse in the top 10 and the highest scoring Roush driver. What is going on 292. The Long Shot posted: 07.13.2014 - 3:06 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Damn, Stenhouse is in the top 10. 293. JG24FanForever posted: 07.13.2014 - 3:08 pm Rate this comment: (4) (0) "Everyone in NASCAR LOVES Larson especially the media" So what? Is there something wrong with a young, super talented driver coming up and driving ahead of his expectations? He's an awesome driver and a rookie, too. Why is everybody always looking to bitch, instead of enjoying an exciting new talent? Nobody is shoving him down your throat, he's getting attention for a damn good reason. 294. murb posted: 07.13.2014 - 3:08 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "If you're going to have an elimination-based Chase, how about having 8 drivers qualify, cutting it to 4 after 4 races, and cutting it to 2 after 7 races? Stewart and Edwards sure had a compelling three-race battle. It doesn't HAVE to be a winner-take all extravaganza." I really like that. I remember you proposed something similar to that when they announced the new Chase earlier this year, and I liked it then too. If they have to have a Chase, then it should be something like this. I know we haven't seen it fully play out yet, but I could honestly get on board with this 16 driver Chase if they would just get rid of the gimmicked up Homestead Super Bowl Extravaganza. I feel like the regular season has improved a lot with wins meaning more. I just HATE the idea of seeing somebody get screwed out of a deserved title at Homestead. I have no idea what they were smoking when they thought that would be a good idea. 295. Zackary Shawn posted: 07.13.2014 - 3:09 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "What about those of us who think the media is biased in favor of BOTH Larson and Dillon?" Personally, I lean more towards the "biased towards Larson" side. I often forget Dillon is the race. I don't see how you can have the media on your side, but be almost invisible at the same time. 296. DB1995 posted: 07.13.2014 - 3:09 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I hardly ever hear them talk about Austin Dillon and they talk about Larson all the damn time. I dont like either one of them at all 297. The Crimson King posted: 07.13.2014 - 3:09 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Junebug is fading. 298. The Long Shot posted: 07.13.2014 - 3:10 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "What about those of us who think the media is biased in favor of BOTH Larson and Dillon?" You're probably the ones with the smartest viewpoints on this whole situation. I think the hype surrounding Larson is more warranted than what's surrounding Dillon (mainly because of the whole "3 car" thing with Dillon), but to each their own. 299. Schroeder51 posted: 07.13.2014 - 3:10 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) 16 drivers in the hunt for the championship is way too many. Plus, the whole elimination format leaves the possibility open that someone who has performed really mediocre most of the season could end up being crowned champion at the end of the year due to luck. No way does someone like, for example, Austin Dillon (who has basically been Mr. Invisible this year, consistently finishing between 11th-20th) deserve a shot at the title. Imagine if he actually WON the championship that way. It's EXTREMELY unlikely, but it's not entirely outside the realm of possibility. That would be THE biggest joke of a championship ever. As I've said before...this new Chase format is a real mess. It does encourage people to try harder for wins, but it's a big complicated mess. But don't worry, NASCAR will change the format again in a couple of seasons when the fans start complaining. 300. numbah10hatah posted: 07.13.2014 - 3:10 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I think the media is biased towards...well, you know. Apologies to my horse. 301. The Crimson King posted: 07.13.2014 - 3:12 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) @294 I didn't join this site until partially through this season so that wasn't me. But if I had my way, I'd just jack up the number of points winners get, thus increasing the desire to win. If winning was worth x amount of points more than finishing 12th then it'd be more efficient points wise to try to win instead of settling for top 10's. 302. Sean posted: 07.13.2014 - 3:13 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "So what? Is there something wrong with a young, super talented driver coming up and driving ahead of his expectations? He's an awesome driver and a rookie, too. Why is everybody always looking to bitch, instead of enjoying an exciting new talent? Nobody is shoving him down your throat, he's getting attention for a damn good reason." The thing is he's not. He's really just running okay but being talked about like he's already a superstar (largely because of what he's done in other forms of racing/minor league series...) I was also critical of Brad Keselowski and Joey Logano when they were being talked about like they were big stars before they achieved anything (because of their Nationwide dominance/Cup mediocrity). Now Keselowski and Logano both became good Cup drivers and Larson probably will, but I don't think drivers should be hyped before they've actually done something. It's kind of the same issue I had with Kurt Busch at the Indy 500, who was getting massive hype for an okay run (which really wasn't that different from most of Danica's runs there), yet people will harshly criticize Danica for being overhyped and won't criticize others who are considered "real racers". I mean if most NASCAR fans think Montoya sucks just because he accidentally crashed into a jet drier (despite how dominant he was in other series), am I not allowed to criticize Kurt or Larson for failing to live up to expectations but have to call them great racers because of what they did in other series? I think he is super talented, but he has not really proven it yet, and Jamie is regularly outrunning him and getting no press for that. 303. Schroeder51 posted: 07.13.2014 - 3:13 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) On Larson and Dillon being overhyped...at this point, I think Larson is more hyped than Dillon. As DB1995 said, outside of Daytona they've barely mentioned Dillon this season; he's basically been Mr. Invisible this year. Larson, on the other hand, gets mentioned fairly constantly even when he's not doing all that well. But at least Larson so far is managing to back up most of his hype... 304. Zackary Shawn posted: 07.13.2014 - 3:14 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "But if I had my way, I'd just jack up the number of points winners get, thus increasing the desire to win. If winning was worth x amount of points more than finishing 12th then it'd be more efficient points wise to try to win instead of settling for top 10's." I also like this idea, but there's a certain user on this site who has a "this encourages cheating" speech he gives every time someone suggests this. Because obviously, NASCAR loses it's power to penalize cheating teams if they award more points to a winner... 305. The Crimson King posted: 07.13.2014 - 3:14 pm Rate this comment: (2) (0) My excitement for Larson is mostly just because I want some damned new blood in the sport. 306. Sean posted: 07.13.2014 - 3:15 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) "My excitement for Larson is mostly just because I want some damned new blood in the sport." I do understand the rationale of this. I do tend to hype Josef Newgarden beyond what I think his actual talent level is, for instance... 307. Chad's Hair Plugs posted: 07.13.2014 - 3:17 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Lap 213. 308. murb posted: 07.13.2014 - 3:17 pm Rate this comment: (2) (1) I might be the only one, but I've honestly been impressed with the media when it comes to Larson and Dillon this year. Larson has gotten a lot of attention, but it's been because he's been running well. And Dillon hasn't been getting the Danica treatment (a bunch of media time devoted to someone running average or mediocre), so that's been good too. I think both of them have gotten just about the right attention for how both of them have respectively run. 309. epzik8 posted: 07.13.2014 - 3:17 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) It's like Kentucky all over again! 310. The Crimson King posted: 07.13.2014 - 3:18 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) @306 7 years of stagnant rookie classes have really killed the depth of Nascar's fields, haven't they? 311. numbah10hatah posted: 07.13.2014 - 3:19 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) In completely unrelated NASCAR news, former NASCAR driver Jason White is participating in the World Series of Poker. He's still in it with about 450 people left and has $265,000 in chips. 312. Cumulonimbus posted: 07.13.2014 - 3:19 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Burton is on the point of passing Harvick and maybe enter the top 15... amazing run for him, would love seeing him get a top 10 finish, but it's quite unlikely. 313. Schroeder51 posted: 07.13.2014 - 3:20 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Apparently, the caution is out for a crash involving Joey Logano and Morgan Shepherd. 314. Zackary Shawn posted: 07.13.2014 - 3:20 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I'm hearing there has been a Joey Logano/Morgan Shepherd wreck. 315. dennyfan11 posted: 07.13.2014 - 3:20 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) There has. 316. The Long Shot posted: 07.13.2014 - 3:20 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Logano hits the wall while in second, caution. 317. Sean posted: 07.13.2014 - 3:20 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) This probably SHOULD be Burton's last race, because he's never going to run this well anywhere else at this point. This always was his best track. And Gordon quietly reentered the top ten... It's like it's the late '90s again. 318. numbah10hatah posted: 07.13.2014 - 3:20 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) THIS CHANGES EVERYTHING!! JoLo in the wall after contact with Morgan Shepherd. 319. Sean posted: 07.13.2014 - 3:21 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) 12.2 for Hamlin? I don't remember ever seeing a 4-tire stop faster than that. Has anybody broken 12 seconds yet? 320. murb posted: 07.13.2014 - 3:22 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Logano in the wall for the caution. 321. Schroeder51 posted: 07.13.2014 - 3:22 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Bowyer wins the race out of the pits with two tires. 322. Chad's Hair Plugs posted: 07.13.2014 - 3:22 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Morgan just lost it. 323. Zackary Shawn posted: 07.13.2014 - 3:22 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Can't really defend Morgan on that one, unless he had a tire failure or something. 324. DB1995 posted: 07.13.2014 - 3:22 pm Rate this comment: (1) (1) Hang the f**kING helmet up Morgan, i like you but come on! 325. epzik8 posted: 07.13.2014 - 3:22 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Who would have thought Joey Logano and Morgan Shepherd would ever wreck with each other? 326. numbah10hatah posted: 07.13.2014 - 3:23 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) No good angles on that crash...looked to me like Shepherd got loose and into JoLo, who was just at the wrong place at the wrong time. 327. The Long Shot posted: 07.13.2014 - 3:23 pm Rate this comment: (0) (3) Looked like Logano might have been a mite too aggressive trying to pass Morgan Shepherd. 328. murb posted: 07.13.2014 - 3:26 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "This probably SHOULD be Burton's last race, because he's never going to run this well anywhere else at this point. This always was his best track." I agree. As a Burton fan, I'd much rather see him go out like this instead of running 25th at Charlotte or something (I'm just assuming if he were to run another race, it would probably be at Charlotte or Texas or something, or one of the other cookie cutters since there are so many to end the year). 329. numbah10hatah posted: 07.13.2014 - 3:26 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) "I feel like there should be a drivers' test before you go out there" -JoLo 330. jabber1990 posted: 07.13.2014 - 3:26 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) oh, Mark Garrow and Doug Rice are PISSED at Morgan Shepard not as mad as SPEED when Kyle wrecked Hornaday, but pretty close 331. Chad's Hair Plugs posted: 07.13.2014 - 3:26 pm Rate this comment: (2) (3) JoLo, you've had 1 good year. You don't get to crap on Morgan Shepherd yet. 332. The Long Shot posted: 07.13.2014 - 3:26 pm Rate this comment: (1) (1) Damn, Logano took some cheap shots at Shepherd there. 333. Sean posted: 07.13.2014 - 3:27 pm Rate this comment: (4) (3) Is Joey Logano even aware that Morgan Shepherd was arguably the most underrated Cup drivers of the '80s/'90s? He might be too young to remember... I agree with him that Shepherd shouldn't be out there at this point, but...Logano has been handed everything in his career and Shepherd never got the rides he deserved. And not long after I felt that Logano was the only regular contender I actually liked... 334. murb posted: 07.13.2014 - 3:27 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) It's a tough break for Logano, but at the same time, he has notably wrecked lapped cars as the leader before (2012 Dover NNS), so he shouldn't really be complaining THAT much. He handled it well though. Definitely better than others (Kyle, Brad) would have. 335. BJ posted: 07.13.2014 - 3:28 pm Rate this comment: (0) (2) quit hating on Morgan...he's a good driver....this wouldn't have happened if he had better equipment...joey should show him more respect 336. David posted: 07.13.2014 - 3:28 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The Crimson King: For what it's worth, I liked the points system Sean suggested earlier in this thread; possibly even more than my own, which I've posted here several times. 337. Chad's Hair Plugs posted: 07.13.2014 - 3:28 pm Rate this comment: (6) (2) "I feel like there should be a drivers' test before you go out there" - JoLo "I feel like there should be a drivers' test before you go out there" - Every driver referring to Logano in 2009. 338. The Long Shot posted: 07.13.2014 - 3:30 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) "quit hating on Morgan...he's a good driver....this wouldn't have happened if he had better equipment...joey should show him more respect" In fairness, Morgan probably should have retired about 10 years ago. He's way out of his league running these Cup races. 339. The Crimson King posted: 07.13.2014 - 3:32 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Racing is his job. For all we know, Morgan may still need money to pay the bills. 340. jabber1990 posted: 07.13.2014 - 3:33 pm Rate this comment: (2) (0) "quit hating on Morgan...he's a good driver....this wouldn't have happened if he had better equipment" he's in Childress' "bastard son" car (it does have ECR engines and and ECR chasis right?) so its not like its a crappy car 341. DB1995 posted: 07.13.2014 - 3:33 pm Rate this comment: (3) (1) Fine comedy from the orange cone @TheOrangeCone: Danica telling her crew she's "super tight." Stenhouse nearly wrecks when his crew relays that information to him over his radio. 342. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.13.2014 - 3:34 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) Am I missing much? 343. murb posted: 07.13.2014 - 3:34 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "he's in Childress' "bastard son" car (it does have ECR engines and and ECR chasis right?) so its not like its a crappy car" Actually, no, that 33 is a REALLY crappy car when it isn't run by RCR. 344. Schroeder51 posted: 07.13.2014 - 3:35 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Keselowski back to the lead. Nobody is going to beat him barring a late race caution and pit strategy, or something freakish happening... 345. BJ posted: 07.13.2014 - 3:36 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) hey if Morgan wants to race in Cup and has a ride he should be allowed to...there shouldn't be an age limit 346. The Crimson King posted: 07.13.2014 - 3:36 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) @NRF no, Brad pretty much has the fastest car and no one is fast enough to take it from him. Unless someone fuel milages the race, it's his to lose. 347. Lemon Seed Eater posted: 07.13.2014 - 3:36 pm Rate this comment: (2) (3) This race sucks! 348. murb posted: 07.13.2014 - 3:36 pm Rate this comment: (0) (2) I have a hard time believing that I'm defending Logano (who I HATED less than two years ago), but like I said, he handled it way better than Kyle or Brad would have. Kyle would have thrown a typical hissy fit, and Brad probably would have gone back out and tried to wreck him. Logano is definitely maturing a lot, both in the car and out. 349. murb posted: 07.13.2014 - 3:37 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Pretty crazy comeback for Gordon. I think he actually could compete for the win if he got some track position. 350. Sean posted: 07.13.2014 - 3:39 pm Rate this comment: (2) (2) I suppose considering how much the back half of the Cup field has degraded in the last decade, Shepherd might have a place, but in an ideal Cup world (where qualifying for a race wasn't essentially automatic) he wouldn't, but it was still ridiculous for Joey Logano, who might be ignorant about Shepherd's earlier accomplishments, to trash him... After all, Shepherd's win in his rookie season was a lot more deserved than Logano's... 351. Schroeder51 posted: 07.13.2014 - 3:39 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Cannot believe how well Gordon is doing now considering how awful he was earlier in this race. Then again, it would be FAR from the first time he's taken a car that struggled early in the race to a good finish. 352. Schroeder51 posted: 07.13.2014 - 3:40 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Lemon Seed Eater? *Darth Vader voice* NNOOOOOOOOOOOOO... 353. The Long Shot posted: 07.13.2014 - 3:41 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) "hey if Morgan wants to race in Cup and has a ride he should be allowed to...there shouldn't be an age limit" No there shouldn't, but if he's running that far off pace, he should be parked. Timmy Hill should have been parked at Bristol, but he wasn't and as a result nearly ruined Matt Kenseth's race by pile driving into the back of his car. (Notice the running theme this year with accidents involving the off-pace 33 car.) 354. JG24FanForever posted: 07.13.2014 - 3:41 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Cannot believe how well Gordon is doing now considering how awful he was earlier in this race. Then again, it would be FAR from the first time he's taken a car that struggled early in the race to a good finish." You can't believe Gordon has made a comeback?! REFUSE TO LOSE!! 355. Ryan posted: 07.13.2014 - 3:41 pm Rate this comment: (3) (0) The last thing Logano is thinking about is Morgan Shepherd's underrated career in the 80's/90's. It doesn't absolve Shepherd of criticism because he decent back in the day. If I was in Logano's position I'd be pissed too. 356. The Long Shot posted: 07.13.2014 - 3:42 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Caution for debris. 357. Jacques posted: 07.13.2014 - 3:42 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Geez, NASCAR loves me today!! 358. Chad's Hair Plugs posted: 07.13.2014 - 3:42 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I forgot to predict a lap for debris caution. 359. Pierre posted: 07.13.2014 - 3:42 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Wee monsieur 360. Schroeder51 posted: 07.13.2014 - 3:43 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Caution for more tire debris. 361. Zackary Shawn posted: 07.13.2014 - 3:43 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) "No there shouldn't, but if he's running that far off pace, he should be parked. Timmy Hill should have been parked at Bristol, but he wasn't and as a result nearly ruined Matt Kenseth's race by pile driving into the back of his car." The only time in that Bristol race when Timmy Hill was supposed to be going slow, he wasn't. 362. Schroeder51 posted: 07.13.2014 - 3:43 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Gordon and a few others stay out on track. 363. Avocado Seed Eater posted: 07.13.2014 - 3:43 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I'm choking on these big seeds... and the unbelievability of the cautions! 364. Chad's Hair Plugs posted: 07.13.2014 - 3:43 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Gordon, Hamlin, Harvick, and Kyle Busch (at least) stayed out. 365. The Crimson King posted: 07.13.2014 - 3:46 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Now this race has gotten interesting! 366. Schroeder51 posted: 07.13.2014 - 3:46 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Six cars stayed out: Gordon, Hamlin, Harvick, Kyle Busch, Menard, and Biffle. 367. DB1995 posted: 07.13.2014 - 3:47 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) If im in Brads position i take 4 tires again instead of going with 2 and not knowing how it handles on 2 tires, because as far as i know hes only taken 4 all day 368. Chad's Hair Plugs posted: 07.13.2014 - 3:48 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) BK will be back in the lead within 10 laps. 369. Schroeder51 posted: 07.13.2014 - 3:48 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Hamlin goes to second. But Keselowski is coming once again... 370. The Long Shot posted: 07.13.2014 - 3:48 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Truex is off pace. 371. numbah10hatah posted: 07.13.2014 - 3:50 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) This is Keselowski's race to lose. 372. dennyfan11 posted: 07.13.2014 - 3:50 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Lots of rain on the radar,but with 40 laps to go, I think we'll make it. 373. Schroeder51 posted: 07.13.2014 - 3:51 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Keselowski to second, and now he sets his sights on Gordon. 374. epzik8 posted: 07.13.2014 - 3:51 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Getting to that unnerving part of the race. 375. New14 & 88Fan posted: 07.13.2014 - 3:52 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) BK2 is there. 376. Schroeder51 posted: 07.13.2014 - 3:53 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Hoping there will not be another Jacques caution before the end of this race. I may have just jinxed things... 377. Mango Seed Eater posted: 07.13.2014 - 3:54 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) This is race is giving me the runs! 378. Chad's Hair Plugs posted: 07.13.2014 - 3:55 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "If this was 2012-2013, we would never hear from Jeff the rest of the race. But this is 2014. He'll be back up there before it's over." Zachary Shawn, you nailed it. 379. dennyfan11 posted: 07.13.2014 - 3:55 pm Rate this comment: (1) (1) Race over. Kez in the lead. 380. Schroeder51 posted: 07.13.2014 - 3:55 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Brad clears Gordon for the lead. 381. Schroeder51 posted: 07.13.2014 - 4:01 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Hamlin is about to get 2nd from Gordon. 382. The Long Shot posted: 07.13.2014 - 4:05 pm Rate this comment: (3) (0) They just mentioned the name of the guy who runs the audio for TNT as "Bob Hanford". Mr. Hanford, with all due respect, you may want to consider pursuing a different career. 383. numbah10hatah posted: 07.13.2014 - 4:07 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Benny Parsons. :'( 384. dennyfan11 posted: 07.13.2014 - 4:07 pm Rate this comment: (1) (3) boring finish. 385. SpeedWorld97 posted: 07.13.2014 - 4:08 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Too bad "Jamie MacMary" won't win TNT's last race as a tribute to Benny Parsons who worked for TNT from 2001-2006. 386. Schroeder51 posted: 07.13.2014 - 4:09 pm Rate this comment: (2) (0) "boring finish." Would you rather have Jacques make another appearance and bring out a GWC? 387. The Long Shot posted: 07.13.2014 - 4:09 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Allgaier crashes hard. Caution. 388. numbah10hatah posted: 07.13.2014 - 4:09 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Justin Allgaier in the wall, Caution. Jacques is pissed. 389. DB1995 posted: 07.13.2014 - 4:09 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) f**k!!! 390. New14 & 88Fan posted: 07.13.2014 - 4:09 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) This changes everything. 391. Schroeder51 posted: 07.13.2014 - 4:09 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) With 4 laps to go, Justin Allgaier has a HUGE crash. Bad news for the guys who were low on fuel... 392. Zackary Shawn posted: 07.13.2014 - 4:09 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "boring finish." How do you know? There's 4 laps to go. 393. Chad's Hair Plugs posted: 07.13.2014 - 4:10 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Did Ragan have anything to do with that or did he just stop short of the accident? 394. The Long Shot posted: 07.13.2014 - 4:10 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Hamlin on pit road. 395. DB1995 posted: 07.13.2014 - 4:10 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Dammit Justin!! And whatever f**ker wrecked him!! 396. dennyfan11 posted: 07.13.2014 - 4:10 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) Allgaier crash,maybe exciting finish! 397. DB1995 posted: 07.13.2014 - 4:11 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Bloody Hell!! 398. Schroeder51 posted: 07.13.2014 - 4:11 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Got the feeling that some guys like Gordon will run out on the restart and cause another GWC... 399. DB1995 posted: 07.13.2014 - 4:11 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Im more pissed than AJ Foyt last night! 400. The Long Shot posted: 07.13.2014 - 4:13 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Gordon runs out. 401. New14 & 88Fan posted: 07.13.2014 - 4:13 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Jeff Gordon's out of gas. 402. Schroeder51 posted: 07.13.2014 - 4:13 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Gordon is out of fuel, ending his shot at a good run. 403. Chad's Hair Plugs posted: 07.13.2014 - 4:13 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) It appears Gordon is out. If they need the truck for him, Harvick and Kyle'll be out too. 404. Schroeder51 posted: 07.13.2014 - 4:14 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) We may have a new points leader after all. 405. Chad's Hair Plugs posted: 07.13.2014 - 4:14 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Bowyer's now in 3rd. Here comes a dive bomb. 406. JG24FanForever posted: 07.13.2014 - 4:15 pm Rate this comment: (0) (2) What a typically idiotic thing to happen to Gordon. If we didn't have so many crash friendly hacks in Nascar, bullshit like this wouldn't happen. 407. David posted: 07.13.2014 - 4:15 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) DB1995, I'm not sure why you're that mad, or even if you are capable of actually being more mad than A.J. Foyt. 408. Schroeder51 posted: 07.13.2014 - 4:15 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Harvick is out of gas. 409. numbah10hatah posted: 07.13.2014 - 4:15 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Harvick out of gas, WHERE DID STENHOUSE COME FROM!!! 410. numbah10hatah posted: 07.13.2014 - 4:16 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) DANICA HAS SMOKE COMING FROM THE BACK OF HER CAR!! 411. The Long Shot posted: 07.13.2014 - 4:17 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Brad wins. Kyle saves enough to finish second, Kyle Larson scores third. Danica smokes after the finish. 412. Schroeder51 posted: 07.13.2014 - 4:17 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Keselowski wins in dominant fashion, while somehow Kyle Busch manages to make it on gas. Danica had major damage to her car coming to the checkered. 413. Chad's Hair Plugs posted: 07.13.2014 - 4:17 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Is that the first time Kyle Busch stretched his fuel successfully? 414. numbah10hatah posted: 07.13.2014 - 4:17 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Hehe. I picked the winner. :D :D :D :D :D 415. epzik8 posted: 07.13.2014 - 4:18 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) The Red Deuce wins. 416. The Crimson King posted: 07.13.2014 - 4:19 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) @404 Nah, I think Gordon still has it by like 8 points or something. 417. jabber1990 posted: 07.13.2014 - 4:20 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Brad has won at Vegas, Kentucky and New Hampshire...I sense a theme couple of them actually 418. Schroeder51 posted: 07.13.2014 - 4:21 pm Rate this comment: (3) (0) Gordon, although he finished 26th, hangs on to points lead. Twelve points now separate him and Junior. Not that it will matter come Chase time... And that concludes what most likely will be Turner Broadcasting's final NASCAR event. I'm going to miss hearing Wally and Kyle during the summer months, although I won't miss the excessive amount of commercials. I bet a LOT of NASCAR fans are happy to see them leave...judging by what I've seen, most NASCAR fans outside of this board think that FOX has always been the best network and that (for whatever reason) the Waltrips are genuinely hilarious. 419. Schroeder51 posted: 07.13.2014 - 4:22 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Hamlin managed to still get a top 10 despite pitting late. 420. Chad's Hair Plugs posted: 07.13.2014 - 4:22 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) There's Bruton, get him! 421. DB1995 posted: 07.13.2014 - 4:22 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) 407. David posted: 07.13.2014 - 4:15 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) DB1995, I'm not sure why you're that mad, or even if you are capable of actually being more mad than A.J. Foyt. I was just kidding im not that mad, just minorly pissed about the last caution 422. Matt L posted: 07.13.2014 - 4:24 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Well, the best car won. Will miss Wally and Kyle Petty in the tv booth. Hope they stay involved in the sport on NBC. 423. The Crimson King posted: 07.13.2014 - 4:26 pm Rate this comment: (2) (0) I'm gonna miss TNT because it's the only time when Larry Mac is actually enjoyable. I just think being around DW makes you insufferable by default. 424. Zackary Shawn posted: 07.13.2014 - 4:27 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) Dale Jr. angry about finishing 10th. This is a good thing. 425. JG24FanForever posted: 07.13.2014 - 4:27 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Will miss Wally and Kyle Petty in the tv booth. Hope they stay involved in the sport on NBC." Kyle is going to be with NBC. 426. Veterinarian posted: 07.13.2014 - 4:28 pm Rate this comment: (1) (2) "DANICA HAS SMOKE COMING FROM THE BACK OF HER CAR!!!" At approximately 4:16 p.m. on Sunday, a horse that has been identified to belong to numbah10hatah collapsed and died. I have identified the cause as excessive abuse. We will be reporting this to the SPCA. 427. Schroeder51 posted: 07.13.2014 - 4:28 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Newman finished fifth? Where the hell did he come from? 428. murb posted: 07.13.2014 - 4:29 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Had to step out for the end of it, but it doesn't look like I missed much. Brad was the best car all day. Another great run for Larson. He deserves all the attention he's getting from the media. He's gonna be really good. Great quiet run from Newman. He's definitely one of the prime candidates to make the Chase on points. And yes, hopefully both Wally and Kyle stay active in Nascar broadcasting, whether it's with NBC (I imagine Wally will do some stuff with them since he does their IndyCar broadcasts) or Fox (maybe Kyle can replace DW, since I'm pretty sure DW is gonna retire in a couple years). Despite TNT's sometimes comical production issues, those two always made up for it with their analysis. 429. DB1995 posted: 07.13.2014 - 4:29 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Jr had an awkward interview 430. JG24FanForever posted: 07.13.2014 - 4:33 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Jr had an awkward interview" Why? Because he didn't sound like a soulless automaton? Gordon's day: from 11th to 25th, from 25th to 3rd, from 3rd to 26th. 431. numbah10hatah's Danica Patrick horse posted: 07.13.2014 - 4:35 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I'm still alive, folks! I will keep rooting for Austin, and I will keep kicking mad Danica haters! 432. DB1995 posted: 07.13.2014 - 4:36 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) It was just sorta odd with that pause at the end, which was TNTs fault i think. I admit that piece at the end was pretty good 433. murb posted: 07.13.2014 - 4:37 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "from 3rd to 26th." Wow, he finished that bad even after coming back? 434. numbah10hatah posted: 07.13.2014 - 4:37 pm Rate this comment: (1) (2) TNT IS OVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!! *activates Daniel Bryan mode* YES! YES! YES! 435. Zackary Shawn posted: 07.13.2014 - 4:37 pm Rate this comment: (2) (0) And just like that, 32 years of NASCAR Racing on Turner Sports comes to an end. 436. dennyfan11 posted: 07.13.2014 - 4:37 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Great montage at the end. 437. murb posted: 07.13.2014 - 4:38 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Oh, Gordon ran out of fuel. Nevermind. 438. Zackary Shawn posted: 07.13.2014 - 4:38 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Wow, he finished that bad even after coming back?" Fuel. 439. numbah10hatah posted: 07.13.2014 - 4:38 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Schroeder51: Not only that, but STENHOUSE JR had a top 10!!! 440. SpeedWorld97 posted: 07.13.2014 - 4:39 pm Rate this comment: (3) (0) You know, I'm really going to miss NASCAR on TNT. Now we're going to have FOX/FS1 cover the first half of the season for at least the next eight years. *screams in horror* 441. numbah10hatah posted: 07.13.2014 - 4:40 pm Rate this comment: (0) (2) Wait, Kyle Petty is going to be with NBC?? NOOOOOOOO!!! 442. SpeedWorld97 posted: 07.13.2014 - 4:41 pm Rate this comment: (3) (0) "Wait, Kyle Petty is going to be with NBC??" In that case, NBC is already outdoing FOX in the brains department. 443. Zackary Shawn posted: 07.13.2014 - 4:42 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The top 4 in this race was also the top 4 in yesterday's Nationwide race, just 3rd and 4th was switched. 444. JG24FanForever posted: 07.13.2014 - 4:42 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) from 3rd to 26th. "Wow, he finished that bad even after coming back?" Inconvenient caution, brought out by crony crashes, led to Gordon running out of gas. BTW: Larson finished Top 5 for the 4th time this year! Way to be overhyped! 445. ii posted: 07.13.2014 - 4:42 pm Rate this comment: (2) (0) "And that concludes what most likely will be Turner Broadcasting's final NASCAR event. I'm going to miss hearing Wally and Kyle during the summer months, although I won't miss the excessive amount of commercials. I bet a LOT of NASCAR fans are happy to see them leave...judging by what I've seen, most NASCAR fans outside of this board think that FOX has always been the best network and that (for whatever reason) the Waltrips are genuinely hilarious." Sometimes I find the Waltrips hilarious either because they stumble on their words all the time or they're flat out wrong. And I'm sure there are more people like me too. 446. jabber1990 posted: 07.13.2014 - 4:46 pm Rate this comment: (2) (0) 4 wins in a row for Ford 447. 1995 Subaru WRX STi posted: 07.13.2014 - 4:49 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "There's Bruton, get him!" Brad hugged him, get Brad too!. 448. dennyfan11 posted: 07.13.2014 - 4:51 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) And with that,32 or 33 years of NASCAR on the Turner Sports family of networks comes to an end. It might started with TBS in 1982 at the Winston Western 500,which is disputed,it might have aired on Mizlou. It is known that it aired the 1983 Richmond 400. Through the years,it had many great moments. In 2001,TNT picked up the slack teaming with NBC,with a broadcast team of Allen Bestwick,Wally Dallenbach,and Benny Parsons. Bestwick was soon replaced by Bill Weber,and NBC stopped televising in 2006. TNT continued,with Parsons's tragic death leaving him replaced by Kyle Petty. In 2009,Weber was replaced by Ralph Sheheen,who was replaced by Adam Alexander in 2010,making the final broadcasting lineup complete. And now,TNT finally reaches it's end. Admittedly,it's coverage was crap,but it had some very funny moments. NBC will now pick up the slack from TNT next year. And thus,this comment is over. 449. JG24FanForever posted: 07.13.2014 - 4:54 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) I'm so deflated by the end of that race, that i'm going to make list for the rest of the week. My Top 10 favorite Cup series drivers(All-Time): -1. Jeff Gordon -1. David Pearson -1. Curtis Turner -4. Kyle Petty -5. Tim Flock -6. Dale Earnhardt -7. Bobby Allison -8. Richard Petty -9. Terry Labonte 10. Junior Johnson Larson is my second favorite driver that currently races, but I can't put him in my Top 10 anytime soon. Maybe not for years. 450. jabber1990 posted: 07.13.2014 - 4:55 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I liked Fox because of the fact I was one of those people who grew up on Animation Domination, so after the race it would go to Animation Domination. yes I grew up with The Simpsons, King of the Hill, and (to a lesser extent) Family Guy. thats the main reason I like Fox Don't worry i'm not a huge Family Guy fan anymore (I like American Dad better) but maybe thats why i've always prefered Fox to NBC. but lets play Devils advocate here, what is NBC famous for? what shows do they do? I can't name any off the top of my head also, until 2004 my parents didn't have cable, so I liked Fox more because I didn't always get NBC, even though I specifically remember watching the 2002 Daytona 500 451. RCRandPenskeGuy posted: 07.13.2014 - 4:58 pm Rate this comment: (1) (1) "My excitement for Larson is mostly just because I want some damned new blood in the sport." Same here. I thought by now Ricky Stenhouse would have taken that next step towards being Chase material, but he is still running mediocre (he finished Top 10 today but until he proves he can consistently run well, finishes like this are outliers for him). I'm more impressed by Larson this year than I have been with Stenhouse last year or this year. Yeah, Larson has a ways to go still, but I think he can do it. Ever since 2006 ended, the only drivers to come up through the NASCAR ranks and make an impression for the long-term future have been Brad Keselowski and Joey Logano. Speaking of the race, I hope like hell that Brad is getting his head on right again. Moments like Martinsville, Richmond and costing himself the lead at Pocono in the final laps made me cringe. Hopefully with Penske building these bad fast racecars and the hot streak he is on, Brad will realize "Hey, I have a shot at another championship!". 452. Veterinarian posted: 07.13.2014 - 5:00 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Don't be fooled by the twitching; the horse is well and truly dead. Even the horse itself is in denial. 453. AveryNH posted: 07.13.2014 - 5:02 pm Rate this comment: (2) (0) Tell ya what, props to nascar for letting Morgan ruin Joey's race. He couldn't hardly keep that car on line after the fire on pit lane, was lapped god knows how many times. And then I look up and it's he and the 22 in the fence in three. Now I have no issue with him "racing" but when it ruins not only his car, but someone else's you just gotta shake your head. I have respect for Morgan and remember watching him when I was much younger in the 21 of course, the 75, and randomly the #1 R+L carriers Pontiac but golly what happened today, that was just plain stupid. And what's better is he continued running after the wreck. Just ridiculous. Shoulda parked the damn thing or been parked. -end of rant I'll post more on the race later when I'm home, fighting traffic currently trying to get out 454. Chad's Hair Plugs posted: 07.13.2014 - 5:03 pm Rate this comment: (2) (1) You know, I'm really going to miss NASCAR on TNT. Now we're going to have FOX/FS1 cover the first half of the season for at least the next eight years. *screams in horror* You know its the next 10 years now, right? (Proceeds to get a drink) 455. David posted: 07.13.2014 - 5:04 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Anyway, moving past the latest chapter in the horse saga... SpeedWorld97, we have Fox for another ten years. They signed an extension through 2024. I'm not too terribly upset about Jeff Gordon's poor result. Their strong run in the late stages of this race shows that this team can and will contend for the title. 456. numbah10hatah's Danica Patrick horse posted: 07.13.2014 - 5:11 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) You'll never kill me. I'm in numbah10hatah's game! 457. Zackary Shawn posted: 07.13.2014 - 5:12 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) For consistency's sake, Brad's sponsor for this race should either be changed to "Redd's Apple Ale" or his sponsor on the Pocono race should be changed to simply "Redd's". 458. JG24FanForever posted: 07.13.2014 - 5:12 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I found the silver lining(for me)to this race! Jeff Gordon became the first driver to finish ahead of Jimmie Johnson, in a race, 200 times. Out of Jimmie Johnson's 454 starts, he's 254-200, head to head with Gordon. 459. Sean posted: 07.13.2014 - 5:12 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "BTW: Larson finished Top 5 for the 4th time this year! Way to be overhyped!" He's overhyped because he is finishing better than he is running almost any time he gets a good finish. Yes, he finally had some bad luck the past few weeks but today, he just gained a bunch of positions when people ran out of gas due to a GWC. He was nowhere near 3rd for most of the race (anytime he was it was solely due to pit strategy), and he was nowhere near 2nd for most of Fontana. Before this race, Jamie McMurray had a higher driver rating than Larson but you wouldn't know it because he was consistently getting unlucky at the end (today is a good example) while Larson was getting consistently lucky at the end. 460. numbah10hatah posted: 07.13.2014 - 5:15 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) jabber1990: America's Got Talent. Sunday Night Football. Last Comic Standing. That's about it. 461. Zackary Shawn posted: 07.13.2014 - 5:16 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "And with that,32 or 33 years of NASCAR on the Turner Sports family of networks comes to an end. It might started with TBS in 1982 at the Winston Western 500,which is disputed,it might have aired on Mizlou. It is known that it aired the 1983 Richmond 400." Turner Sports themselves say it has been 32, so I'm going to go with 32. 462. Eric posted: 07.13.2014 - 5:20 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The thing is Fox will have some change sometime before the next their next contract is up after 2024. I am saying that because not every announcer wants to announce as long as David Hobbs has. Darrell Waltrip is going to be 68 years old next year and Mike Joy is going to 65 in November. Larry isn't going be a concern because he's 55 years old. 463. Newt posted: 07.13.2014 - 5:21 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Brad Keselowski actually led 137 laps and Jeff Gordon led for 20 laps. 464. murb posted: 07.13.2014 - 5:29 pm Rate this comment: (3) (0) Like I said, hopefully Kyle Petty will get some consideration from Fox to replace DW when he retires (I don't know when that will be, but I remember hearing a few years ago that Darrell planned on retiring in about 2015, so it may end up being pretty soon). Kyle has been doing some stuff with NBC on their shows (and probably will in the future), but he also does a lot of the practice and qualifying shows on Fox, so hopefully they'll consider him to replace Darrell. Whatever they do, I REALLY hope they don't just move Michael into the booth. Having to listen to that weasel every week for half a season would be torturous. 465. Schroeder51 posted: 07.13.2014 - 5:38 pm Rate this comment: (3) (0) "Whatever they do, I REALLY hope they don't just move Michael into the booth. Having to listen to that weasel every week for half a season would be torturous." As much as I hate to say it...I actually think this is what FOX will more than likely end up doing when DW retires. I can easily see them deciding to put Mikey in the booth, much to the chagrin of virtually all of us. 466. epzik8 posted: 07.13.2014 - 5:39 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) I might miss TNT a little but I'm just glad that NBC is back next year. 467. epzik8 posted: 07.13.2014 - 5:51 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Also this was most likely Jeff Burton's last race so I'm sad to see him go, although I was only a fan of him when he drove for Richard Childress. 468. JG24FanForever posted: 07.13.2014 - 5:57 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I've been reading comments on Gordon's facebook page, and i'm beginning to wonder why they didn't pit the 24 for fuel when Hamlin did, knowing they didn't have a hope in hell at beating Brad K for the win. cjs3872, please enlighten me to why they chose a hopeless strategy? Was it Gustafson again? Gordon said:"it was worth the gamble". But, if you have no shot at the win and you're about to run out of gas, why even stay out, just to throw away a sure Top 10 finish? 469. Daniel posted: 07.13.2014 - 6:25 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) Go Gordon! 470. jabber1990 posted: 07.13.2014 - 6:27 pm Rate this comment: (3) (0) i'm going to beat a dead horse here (no not that one) it seems everyone on SirusXM NASCAR radio is angry about Morgan Shepard (as they should be) but they are trying to enact an age cap, the reason I don't support this is because what if somebody is still good at a high age. maybe i'm being unfair because i'm trying to compare Mark Martin in 2009 to Morgan Shepard today, granted that's a age difference of 20 years, and Hendricks #2 Car Vs. a Joe Falk car. my point is an Age cap isn't a good idea just because 1 person made a mistake, look at Hershel McGriff, he ran a West Series race at 82 and finished in the top 6, or top 10? so why should there be a limit. IF a 75 year old driver is still competitive later into his life who are us fans to say "no" 471. dennyfan11 posted: 07.13.2014 - 6:28 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) ^Go Gordon indeed. 472. numbah10hatah posted: 07.13.2014 - 6:42 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Apparently JoLo had a sprained wrist after his practice crash on Friday. Huh. 473. numbah10hatah posted: 07.13.2014 - 6:43 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) #87 sponsor: Landcastle Title (had a big logo on the hood) 474. £ posted: 07.13.2014 - 6:52 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "That's how I roll". - morgan shepherd 475. Eric posted: 07.13.2014 - 7:37 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) jabber1990, Hershel McGriff didn't finish in the top 10 when he was 82 years old in the West series. I checked matter of fact on this site. The last time Herschel Mcgriff finished in the top 10 in the West Series was in 2002 at Phoenix finishing 7th when he was 74 years old. What you have to look what Herschel Mcgriff did in 2002 happened in a lower NASCAR Series like what Ron Hornaday Jr. is doing in the truck series this season despite being 56 years old. There is a reason why Kyle Busch dominates in the Truck Series a lot and it isn't all cheating either. The fact is the Truck series and lower series in NASCAR have drivers that aren't quite the same level as the top Cup drivers. The lower levels of NASCAR are for developing you talent and a place where older drivers can be competitive at an older age compare to the Cup series. My belief is a cup driver can be competitive in that series until that hit their late 50's based on what Dick Trickle did in the 90 car in 1997 and 1998. I consider Dick Trickle the measuring stick for older cup drivers in their mid to late 50's and also for the fact Dick Trickle is the oldest driver ever to win a Nationwide race. 476. Larak Robinson posted: 07.13.2014 - 7:44 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Jeff gordon should be an NBC analyst 477. Feetduck posted: 07.13.2014 - 7:46 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Interesting a Penske car wins every 6 years at New Hamspire. 2002 the 12 car won 2008 the 2 car won 2014 the 2 car won The 2 car wins 3 races at the track with 3 different drivers. Number 2 also get his third win of the season. 478. jabber1990 posted: 07.13.2014 - 8:17 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Jeff gordon should be an NBC analyst" my mother and I talked about this about 8-10 years ago she is not a Jeff Gordon Fan, but she'd love to see him get into television. whether its replacing Regis on the Kelly Ripa show (which is what she wanted..and she HATES Kelly Ripa) being the next Oprah, or even getting into Hollywood, she thinks he'd be very good at that. he has more money than he'll ever spend (he doesn't have an "unlmited budget" but pretty damn close) I thought Tony Stewart should have been in the Booth at Eldora, but he had like 15,000 other things to worry about back on the Hollywood thing, during the 2002 or 2003 race at Fontana (I forget since I didn't watch the whole thing) Fox had a little poll where you could e-mail, or call the poll answer (how times changed in 6-8 years) they asked who would make the best actor, Jeff Gordon, Tony Stewart or Dale Earnhardt Jr. the obvious answer was Jeff Gordon, but the other 2 were pretty close, so that should count for something 479. TS1420 posted: 07.13.2014 - 8:28 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Was up all night and went to take a little nap before the race: Slept through the race 0_0 Congrats to Bad Brad & The Brew Crew another dominating win. Hopefully they (specifically Brad) got all the stupid petty nonsense out of their system and are in "2012 Mode" for the rest of the season. 480. Cornys posted: 07.13.2014 - 8:32 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "I've been reading comments on Gordon's facebook page, and i'm beginning to wonder why they didn't pit the 24 for fuel when Hamlin did, knowing they didn't have a hope in hell at beating Brad K for the win. cjs3872, please enlighten me to why they chose a hopeless strategy? Was it Gustafson again? Gordon said:"it was worth the gamble". But, if you have no shot at the win and you're about to run out of gas, why even stay out, just to throw away a sure Top 10 finish?" It's simple really. The new championship format only rewards wins after a driver has one in he bank. The results should display either an "W" or an "L" for all drivers who already have wins this season. Any mention of finishing position for drivers who already have wins is practically irrelevant, and just a continuation of old fashioned racing practice. If your driver already has a win simply forget about finishing position until the chase starts, because it really doesn't matter. 481. 111111 posted: 07.13.2014 - 8:37 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) 477: What about Ryan Newman in 2005? 482. Destroyahirismix666 posted: 07.13.2014 - 8:39 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Oh for Christ's sake Shepard. I like you and all, and I'll always remember you for finishing 2nd in the 1992 Daytona 500 (...that's about it, oh, and your the second oldest driver to win a race). But that is enough to make me livid. (Sigh) oh well. You guys all put on a good comedy show today. Coming and reading this User Comments section put another bright spot on what is thus far a good day. - jabber1990 posted: Brad has won at Vegas, Kentucky and New Hampshire...I sense a theme couple of them actually ^Like How Brad K, my least favorite cup driver, is winning at all of my least favorite tracks? The only extra win he would need would be Chicago...f*ck Chicago. 483. cjs3872 posted: 07.13.2014 - 8:46 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Of course, it was worth the gamble, JG24FF. If it gets you into the top three, which it did, and you were running outside the top ten much of the day and were running sixth or seventh at the time of the referred to caution period, it's obviously worth the risk. And Brad had a harder time getting around him than he did anyone else the entire race, which meant he had a very good car out front. And nobody was beating Brad unless he had a problem. And the fact that Gordon's team stayed out was an indicator to me that they were going to gamble on fuel, even if that caution had not come out, and try to beat Brad that way, since that was the only way he was going to get beat today, short of a pit road speeding penalty on the last stop. And I believe that if it had not been for that final caution, that he would have made it and finished third, so it was a good decision to take the gamble and get a better finish. It simply didn't work out as a result of that last caution flag, and Kevin Harvick got bit in exactly the same fashion. 484. cjs3872 posted: 07.13.2014 - 9:03 pm Rate this comment: (5) (0) And here's an interesting note about Jeff Burton's career. If this was to be his final Cup race, both his first and last starts came at the same track and were both won by the same team, Roger Penske's #2 team. Brad Keselowski won today's race in the #2 car, and Rusty Wallace won the inaugural Cup race at Loudon in 1993 in what was Jeff Burton's very first start in the Cup Series. Of course, a BIG difference between the two races was in the starting position of the winner. While Keselowski started this race near the front, Wallace won the 1993 inaugural from 33rd position on the starting grid. And my problem with the whole Shepherd/Logano incident lies with NASCAR. they do have a minimum speed requirement to stay on the track, but they never enforce it. When a guy is lapped more than 10 times on a flat mile track and is, by far, the slowest car on the track, he needs to be pulled off the track by NASCAR. Shepherd should never have been out there at that time of the race to start with, because NASCAR should have removed his car from the track. It's as simple as that. It was admirable for Shepherd, who was born two months before the Japanese attacked Pearl Harbor, to try to run the full race, but at some point, NASCAR has to take a stand and pull his and other extra-slow cars off the track. 485. AveryNH posted: 07.13.2014 - 9:12 pm Rate this comment: (4) (0) Finally made it home! I got there with ease. Zero traffic. Got a program, scanner, waited by the flagstand for the start. Sat halfway up the front stretch stands, off of 4, opposite Larson and Gordon's pits. No sooner do I sit down, the 48 gets totaled. Told ya Friday he wasn't winning this one. Long green run. Nascar debating on debris. Yellow. Gordon was attrotious the first run, fell to 26th, stayed out for the wave around which I questioned initially but quickly realized this is why I'm simply a fan. Unimpressed still by Shepherd's stunt. He was lapped every five laps it seemed. And after reading his post race comments I'm baffled. Logano is in second battling for a win. You are in 38th-40th battling the stop watch trying to maintain min.speed. Several times Morgan's car wandered in three, unable to find grip. I worried how the leaders could continue to navigate such a chicane. Granted he was more than gracious in most cases, pulling well over, leaving the leaders plenty of room. He made a mistake, plain and simple. Just a shame he tore up a contending car and can't fully accept the blame. More "yellows". Gordon stays out for the lead. Brad grabs it back. Sidebar, restarts were sheer chaos. Three, FOUR wide into corners, guys just sticking nose in nonexistent holes, amazed we didn't have more yellows. Laps winding down, my pops and I head down to get a spot on the fence for Brad's burnout. We get to the stand, 51 gets dumped. Caution. Gordon runs out, crowd goes nuts (sorry to some of you Gordon fans; David, Daniel, JG24FF my dad is one, he shares your pain). Restart. Brad drives off, all sorts of beating and banging further back. The 2 wins!! We rush the fence, forgetting that Gordon still has a half lap left. The girl standing next to me had he hat blown clear off her head when he roared by. Snapped some great photos, Jr. Debriefing with LeTarte, Kyle (Larson and Busch) being interviewed, and the 2's burnouts. Now granted this year's edition was considerably less exciting than last year's. Nevertheless it was equally enjoyable. And if this really is Jeff Burton's last event than I'm honored to have been in attendance. I was there in sept. 2000 when he delivered the snoozer to end all snoozers. I was 7 and loved it, as I was a Roush homer then and probably am the only one who enjoyed that day. The day he left Roush, I cried. Sadly no joke. I was camping out in Maine, Mum came to the camper with the paper. I'm reading through it, and suddenly bust into tears. BURTON TO THE 30 AOL CAR. The sports sub heading read. My dad thought Richard Petty died or something. Nope, just one of my all time favs switching teams. I have a #8 Raybestos racing champions car autographed by Jeff from his rookie season, still unopened. I cherish that little package. He, Martin, Irvan, Jarrett were all my idols growing up. They introduced me to this sport. And I saw Martin win his last race at NHMS, and I may have just seen Burton's last ride. And that's pretty neat. My apologies for the length, just sharing with you my version of today's race. 486. TS1420 posted: 07.13.2014 - 9:17 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) "but at some point, NASCAR has to take a stand and pull his and other extra-slow cars off the track." But then NASCAR would have to pull Danica off the track from time to time. *Rimshot on numbah10hatah's dead horse corpse* 487. Chives5150 posted: 07.13.2014 - 9:33 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) For those that are hell-bent on the importance of winning races in order to win the championship instead of finishing 10th and collecting points, NASCAR could always implement the practice of ritual human sacrifice. Take, for instance, the ancient Mesoamerican ballgame known as Å?llamaliztli. After a grueling and rugged game where players were usually only permitted to hit at 9kg (4lb) rubber ball with their hips through a hoop on the side of a stone wall, the losers of the game would be sacrificed to some god. Thus, a perfect example of "winning is the most important thing/screw points and the 2nd place finisher". Brad Keselowski won today's race, and 42 other competitors are "treated" to a beheading all in the name of our mighty Lord and Savoir Bruton Smith. 488. Chives5150 posted: 07.13.2014 - 9:34 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) That's supposed to be Ollamaliztli, but it appears the site didn't recognize the macron over the letter 'O'. 489. Jim Davis posted: 07.13.2014 - 10:06 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "my point is an Age cap isn't a good idea just because 1 person made a mistake, look at Hershel McGriff, he ran a West Series race at 82 and finished in the top 6, or top 10? so why should there be a limit. IF a 75 year old driver is still competitive later into his life who are us fans to say "no" " I agree that there should not be an age limit. That said, there should also not be any particular consideration for elderly drivers no matter how long and distinguished their careers may have been. If a driver is driving like Amber Cope or Nur Ali he should have his license pulled like Amber Cope and Nur Ali had theirs pulled. This is not only a competitive issue but a safety one as well. I am willing to cut Nascar a certain amount of slack because of their difficulties in filling fields recently but Shepherd needs to be put on a short leash after this. I also find it ironic that we have people on this board complaining about the lack of new blood in the Sprint Cup series while at the same time defending Shepherd in this incident. 490. Brad Keselowski & Bubba Wallace Fan posted: 07.13.2014 - 10:08 pm Rate this comment: (2) (5) Dominating win by Brad today! Gonna be a heck of a fight between him and Jimmie Johnson all year long. I fully defend Morgan Shepherd. He had every right to be out there, according to NASCAR he was meeting the minimum speed. He just got loose under another car. It happens. Joey's just being a whiny crybaby, which is nothing new. 491. Feetduck posted: 07.13.2014 - 10:10 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Interesting that the 48 has not completed more than 20 laps in the last 2 races. 492. Danica Patrick's Top Drawer posted: 07.13.2014 - 10:25 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Anyone else think this win makes Brad Keselowski the favorite for the title this year? The #2 team is proving to be the strongest on the tracks that matter come chase time. 493. UnderdogFan89 posted: 07.13.2014 - 10:42 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) #489 Jim Davis, so every time a driver gets loose under another driver and takes them out, they need to have a leash put on them, too? That's what your advocating. Mistakes happen no matter your experience, Morgan was really loose in the corners and tried to give Joey room, but Joey got a bit close to Morgan's car, took the air off the car, and he couldn't keep up, something that all drivers have had experience with. You make it seem like he is a bad driver (that's the assumption I'm making from your references), when the car itself had at least three separate issues during the race (two shown on camera) and was already a handful to drive before then. The other thing we should ask ourselves is this: if this were another driver (let's just say Eddie McDonald), would we be making this claim? Yes, Logano would still be pissed (and that's fine, I would be too, although the unnecessary jabs were a true testament to Logano's character), but this conversation wouldn't get past that. And what happened to Shepherd would have happened to any driver in that car, even Logano. And although I have great admiration for Joe Falk, to be honest, his #33 car has been off pace all year. Other than Bobby Labonte's 26th place finish, the best finish for the #33 when Falk fields the car? 35th, twice. So they have had terribe handling cars all year. 494. Jim Davis posted: 07.13.2014 - 11:15 pm Rate this comment: (1) (2) "Jim Davis, so every time a driver gets loose under another driver and takes them out, they need to have a leash put on them, too? That's what your advocating." Cars that are running very slowly, handling poorly, and are double digit laps down need to be monitored very closely. The fact that it is driven by the well liked, well respected, and long tenured Morgan Shepherd is irrelevant. But, in addition, it must be recognized that Shepherd is a gimmick at this stage of his career. He was hired *because* a.) his age would garner more attention to the car and its sponsor than it otherwise would and b.) his stature is such that Nascar would give him more slack than otherwise might be the case. I don't knock Shepherd for allowing or indeed encouraging the use of himself as a gimmick. Maybe he really needs the money. But Nascar has a duty to ensure that gimmicks like Shepherd do not start affecting the competition and safety of the event. We rightly lambast Nascar when *they* start using gimmicks to drum up interest; let's not be hypocrites and embrace a gimmick because it has a name and face we all like and admire. 495. UnderdogFan89 posted: 07.14.2014 - 12:05 am Rate this comment: (3) (0) I'm fine with cars that are slow being monitored, and agree with you in this area. But most of these comments (including yours) make it sound like you're targeting Morgan specifically. Which, I agree with you, should be irrelevant. Sorry if I misunderstood. And I wouldn't call Morgan a gimmick, he's been consistently on the NASCAR circuit for quite some time. If he just showed up after a 10-15 year absence, then I would agree with you. But he has been in the Nationwide Series running his own team, so I wouldn't call him a gimmick, just a driver who's trying to make a comeback. As for your reasons why Morgan was hired, that sponsor had been on the car for the past two races before this one, run by two different drivers (David Stremme and Bobby Labonte), so that doesn't seem to be an issue. I also didn't see any more news about Morgan being in the race then I did when Labonte returned. Also, I highly doubt that they hired him to get "more slack", that seems pretty silly. Maybe they hired him because, you know, they've sucked this year, and they would like to pick his brain and his experience? But you're free to feel however you like. 496. Brad Keselowski & Bubba Wallace Fan posted: 07.14.2014 - 12:19 am Rate this comment: (1) (3) If speeds had been monitored in the '70s like they are today, three quarters of the field would have been parked for being too slow. Also, NASCAR said they did monitor Shepherd, and he met minimum speed. And in no way is Morgan Shepherd a gimmick. He's a race car driver, and a well-respected one. Accidents happen, and Joey Logano and all the haters need to get the hell over it. 497. murb posted: 07.14.2014 - 1:30 am Rate this comment: (3) (1) From what I saw, Shepherd wasn't THAT much of a road block (granted I missed the final 60 laps or so, but from what I saw he looked pretty much like a normal lapped car for the whole race). I thought the thing with Logano was pretty much just a racing deal. Joey was rightfully upset about it, but it's not like it was a blatantly idiotic move that could have been prevented (a la Timmy Hill at Bristol). Guys were getting loose under other cars and almost wrecking them all day (Kyle Busch and Kyle Larson comes to mind), and it just so happened that Morgan couldn't save his car and got into Logano. And about the gimmick thing, like UnderdogFan said, how is Shepherd a gimmick when he's been consistently running races for years now? If this was a situation where he retired and then came back to do a race for publicity or something, it would be one thing. But he has run races in Nascar for just about every year going all the way back to the 70s. I don't get how he could have just randomly turned into a gimmick in one of those years. Personally, I think everyone is making a much bigger deal about this than necessary. I didn't really see how Shepherd was any slower or more in the way than any of the other lapped cars out there. I think most of this is just coming from Logano's smartass remark (and again, Joey had the right to be mad - and I still think he handled it a lot better than some others would have). 498. Zackary Shawn posted: 07.14.2014 - 3:23 am Rate this comment: (1) (0) For what it's worth, I saw a tweet that said Morgan Shepherd's speed was more than a second quicker than the minimum on most laps. 499. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.14.2014 - 4:53 am Rate this comment: (2) (7) This is the first time in my entire life that Shepherd has been involved in something like this. That's ONE TIME. Thing about the moronic moves some of these other drivers do, somethings quite dangerous- dive bombing corners, intentionally blocking the leaders when about to go a lap down, turning people under caution- acts that deliberately put the other competitors' lives at stake, and we do not complain. If Travis Kvapil was running 35th and had become the victim of this, would you be complaining? No. You'd say "Sh!t happens." But because it is Joey Logano, whom the media (although not most fans) loves to harp on, who was running second, there is an outrage. C'mon, people. If this was Timmy Hill or John Wes Townley in the car either (a) the car would not have met minimum speed, (b) the car would have been MANY more laps down when the incident happened, or (c) the car would have already DNF'd from wrecking and having taken someone else out. 500. Michael J. McKay posted: 07.14.2014 - 4:58 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) While the new points system is geared towards wins, and that is what I like about it, but unfortunately, it is also a gimmicky system since Johnson has 3 wins this year, yet finished in 42nd for the second week in a row due to a crash, possibly because of the Top 30 DP rule. In both instances, the crash damage looked repairable in my opinion. This is why I preferred the old points system. 501. WinstonCupStandings posted: 07.14.2014 - 7:56 am Rate this comment: (1) (0) Top 25 (that are on the big teams) 1) Jeff Gordon (2715) -Leader 2) Dale Earnhardt, Jr. (2683) -32 3) Brad Keselowski (2618) -97 4) Matt Kenseth (2561) -154 5) Jimmie Johnson (2488) -227 6) Kyle Busch (2375) -340 7) Carl Edwards (2366) -349 8) Ryan Newman (2348) -367 9) Joey Logano (2327) -388 10) Clint Bowyer (2285) -430 11) Kevin Harvick (2270) -445 12) Paul Menard (2259) -456 13) Kyle Larson (2214) -501 14) Denny Hamlin (2212) -503 15) Greg Biffle (2188) -527 16) Kasey Kahne (2179) -536 17) Austin Dillon (2174) -541 18) Brian Vickers (2160) -555 19) Tony Stewart (2130) -585 20) Marcos Ambrose (2080) -635 21) Jamie McMurray (2047) -668 22) Aric Almirola (2037) -678 23) Kurt Busch (1986) -729 24) Danica Patrick (1740) -975 25) Ricky Stenhouse, Jr. (1740) -975 502. Michael J. McKay posted: 07.14.2014 - 9:02 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Post #501, Now that is better, considering that Gordon only has 1 win this season. He has been very consistent in 2014, and if the old points system was used. He would have been in line for #7 instead of Johnson. Johnson would have had only 3, like other people have pointed out in the past. Terry Labonte and Matt Kenseth won their championships based on consistency and not wins (Either had not won more than 2 in their title seasons) There were also other people with titles in the season they won less races than the runner up. The exception being Richard Petty of course. 503. Destroyahirismix666 posted: 07.14.2014 - 10:32 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) How many times have I said this? Without the chase, we have no idea how differently Johnson's driving style and Chad knaus' strategies could have been. We can take imaginary shots in the dark, but we have no way of knowing. He might have had a Mark-Martinish career up to this point, never winning a title but coming close, or he could be on competing for his 8th title. You can't take the results and the way he was running in the events of that year as an assumption that it is how he would have run regardless of the points system in place. 504. Nascar Lead Lap Points posted: 07.14.2014 - 10:36 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Crew Chiefs #44 Steve Lane #75 Darren Shaw 505. Nascar Lead Lap Points posted: 07.14.2014 - 10:51 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) and the #33 Rick Ren 506. The Long Shot posted: 07.14.2014 - 11:15 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "#33 Rick Ren" Incorrect. Ren was supposedly going to do it, but Mark Hillman was the listed crew chief for the weekend. 507. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.14.2014 - 11:26 am Rate this comment: (0) (3) Without the chase, we have no idea how differently Johnson's driving style and Chad knaus' strategies could have been. We can take imaginary shots in the dark, but we have no way of knowing. We can say for a fact he would not have won 2007 or 2010, as he was several hundred points back. Same with 2004, 2005, and 2011. Now the other years ARE open for debate (2006, 2008, 2011, and 2012). 2009 and 2013 are closed because he jist routed.the competition those years. 508. Neal posted: 07.14.2014 - 12:07 pm Rate this comment: (2) (1) I love the comments about Morgan Shepherd being a gimmick. He's won more races than the advertising gimmick currently occupying the #10 car. 509. WinstonCupStandings posted: 07.14.2014 - 12:09 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) @502 The way i see it Johnson only has three championships, 08-09 and 13. so he has to have four more season's like last year for me to put him up there with Petty, Earnhardt and Gordon. the "six" he has now consists of three real championships and three paper ones. 510. Feetduck posted: 07.14.2014 - 1:04 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I wonder who's going to have the most DNF's this season 511. Eric posted: 07.14.2014 - 1:24 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) @496, I don't think the 33 car hired Morgan Shepherd for New Hampshire for his brain and his experience to make their cars better based on poorly funded the 33 and the 40 are. Morgan's brain can't help a team that is very poorly funded because of how bad the equipment is. The fact is winning a plate race or finish in the top 5 at the Daytona 500 will give help the team out more for adding more to get better equipment. I know a plate race win will not stop the team from being underfunded, but it could make the organization get the equipment to be a top 30 team. 512. Eric posted: 07.14.2014 - 1:31 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I meant to type @495, not @496. 513. Sean posted: 07.14.2014 - 1:34 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "We can say for a fact he would not have won 2007 or 2010, as he was several hundred points back. Same with 2004, 2005, and 2011. Now the other years ARE open for debate (2006, 2008, 2011, and 2012). 2009 and 2013 are closed because he just routed.the competition those years." 2004 is certainly up for debate. Jeff Gordon outscored him by 47 points over the entire season and Johnson had three straight engine failures that summer which were usually viewed as the #48 team "experimenting" for the chase. I honestly think Johnson had the best overall season in 2004, not Busch or Gordon. 2011 on the other hand Johnson was a non-factor (he was behind by 90 points - 2 full races). 514. cjs3872 posted: 07.14.2014 - 1:39 pm Rate this comment: (1) (1) @502, Richard Petty was not the winningest driver in his first championship season, which was 1964. Petty won about nine or ten races that year, but Ned Jarrett won about 15. The difference was that Petty preformed better in the bigger races, which paid more points then, which proved to be all he needed to win his first championship. And Petty was not the winningest driver in his final championship season of 1979, either. Darrell Waltrip was, but he and his team shrunk under the pressure of the championship chase, and allowed Petty to beat them. And also, I find it hard to believe that Morgan Shepherd was going faster than the minimum speed for much of the race. That might have been the case early, but as the race went along, his car got slower and slower. The problem is that NASCAR never enforces the minimum speed rule and Loudon is not an easy track for a slower car to get out of the way of faster cars. I think NASCAR's comments are just a cop out for their incompetent officiating, which continues to rear it's ugly head. Seriously, has NASCAR ever enforced it's minimum speed rule, and if so, when's the last time they actually enforced it for a horrifically slow car? They've enforced it for damaged cars (and even that is rare), but I can't remember the last time they've enforced the minimum speed rule for a car so far off the pace that was relatively undamaged. And the situation regarding Shepherd was not the only case of incompetent officiating by NASCAR this weekend. There was the situation in the NNS race during the last caution where Elliott Sadler blatantly passed Ryan Reed entering the pits while still on the track and no penalty came Sadler's way. NASCAR has continued to prove that they can't even enforce it's rules within a race, and we saw two more examples of it this weekend. 515. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.14.2014 - 2:44 pm Rate this comment: (0) (3) "2004 is certainly up for debate. Jeff Gordon outscored him by 47 points over the entire season and Johnson had three straight engine failures that summer which were usually viewed as the #48 team "experimenting" for the chase. I honestly think Johnson had the best overall season in 2004, not Busch or Gordon." I doubt 04 only because Jimmie had already pretty much maxed his points output during the Chase and the issues were unavoidable. I have never once seen evidence of "experimenting" because that was a common issue with Hendrick cars that year as many engines strangely grenaded, especially Jimmie's at Watkins Glen. Both Jeff and Jimmie lost engines at Michigan at some point, ironically. I never noticed the 47 point difference. For some reason I always thought it was much higher. Might have had a source with bad numbers at that time before I had RR to look at... It's one of those deals with the points: do you unfairly reward winning, or unfairly penalize DNFs? 516. NewJack posted: 07.14.2014 - 2:48 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Morgan Shepherd did run faster than the minimum required speed. He didn't do anything wrong other than not brake early going into the corner. (The in car camera had shown Logano was already next to Shepherd before the brake zone) Just a bad combination of a bad handling car plus not expecting someone at that moment due to closing speeds. The bigger issue might be what is considered "minimum speed". According to what I've read, the minimum speed was 32.87, which is 115.8 MPH. General rule being within 15% of the fastest car in Final Practice. At the time he wrecked, he was running in the high 31s. However, Logano was running in the 29s at the time. Maybe it needs to be 10%, but even then Morgan might have been able to meet that pace. I don't think very many of the drivers could have met 5% towards the end of a run. Maybe the rule should be if you are running 1.5 seconds a lap slower than the leader for 5-10 consecutive laps then you get black flagged. But it's at least a good discussion piece. 517. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.14.2014 - 3:23 pm Rate this comment: (0) (5) Pilot/Flying J has been fined $92,000,000. 518. 1995 Subaru WRX STi posted: 07.14.2014 - 4:00 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "We can say for a fact he would not have won 2007 or 2010, as he was several hundred points back. Same with 2004, 2005, and 2011. Now the other years ARE open for debate (2006, 2008, 2011, and 2012). 2009 and 2013 are closed because he jist routed.the competition those years." In 2007 Jimmie beats Jeff by 77 using the "current" system and Jeff wins by over 350 points under the Latford system. Take your pick in 2007. In 2010 Jimmie wins by 39 over Hamlin (who was leading the points going into Homestead) using the "current system. Harvick wins by over 250 points under the Latford system. Take your pick in 2010. But in reality, Jimmie shouldn't have won 2010 because the #11 team was better then they were but Hamlin and Mike Ford lost their damn minds. 2004 is up for debate as is 2011. 2005 is NOT up for debate, DSFF made the case on here a long time ago that NO ONE beats the #20 team that year, NO ONE. 2006 is up for debate but 2012 is sort of up for debate. #2 bunch kept up with the #48 crew. 2012 wasn't a lock. 2008 and 2009 no one beats the 48, no one. It was done when Daytona was over both years. 2013 the #20 was faster then the 48 but the #20 crew choked at PIR and pretty much gave it too the 48. If Matt finishes 10th and does what he does at Homestead, Matt is your champ. 519. AveryNH posted: 07.14.2014 - 4:29 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Morgan had trouble keeping the car under him all day long, damaged or not. There were several times where it was just him running alone and he'd blow the corner and drift high well off the line, mostly in turn 3(couldn't really see turn 1 very well) But he definitely wasn't alone in being slow, his team mate Cassil was equally slow some runs, and others a touch faster. And yes he, and his fellow lappers yielded to the leaders perfectly almost every time. The accident was just a simple misjudgement, and unfortunately it swept up a contending car. I'll admit I was pissed when it initially occurred, but I do regret being a bit harsh on him with my earlier comments. This isn't the first time this type of thing has happened, nor is it the last. Hell three weeks ago I watched Aleshin ruin Sato's run at Houston. Racing is racing. Accidents occur. Plain amd simple. 520. Matt posted: 07.14.2014 - 7:53 pm Rate this comment: (2) (0) Being a lifelong Jeff Burton fan, last year when it was announced Newman was taking over the 31, I knew I needed to get to one last race. Living in New York, Loudon worked out the best and he ran quite well, with me witnessing (likely) his last top ten. When this year came around and they changed his schedule to run Loudon, I had the weekend open and went. I don't know what TV coverage said but he was exceptionally fast but was set back by poor restarts, no strategy, and damage on two separate occasions. But he ran at least top 15 lap times consistently just too tough to pass (separate issue). Honored to have seen my idols possible last race in person, running IMO better than that team should. Never got to see him win in person but will always be my #1 athlete. Won't know who to pull for until Harrison shows up. 521. KennyWallaceFan posted: 07.14.2014 - 8:25 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Honestly I think it's almost impossible to really predict who would be champion in those year's without the chase. I mean in 2007 Jimmie had 3 DNF's. Everyone goes crazy about Gordon's consistency with 30 top 10's (yet Jimmie has never had more than 24 in his WHOLE CAREER because that's his chase strategy) - do we really know if Jimmie couldn't get 26-30 top 10's without a chase (and by getting those extra top 10's, he probably takes away a top 10 or 2 away from Gordon.) I mean with the whole season mattering Jimmie could of matched Gordon's consistency. In 2013 I think Jimmie outperformed Kenseth chase and non-chase. But that's just me. Kenseth had only 12 top 5s, but I mean who knows? Jimmie did have the engine problems in 2004 but how do we know if they were testing or if it was bad luck? Basically I'm saying: How can you tell? You just have to realize that Jimmie has 6 titles. That's what's in the records book. And everyone knows before the season that you win the title in the Chase. Jimmie has no unfair advantage. 522. numbah10hatah posted: 07.14.2014 - 10:34 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) For once I don't beat the horse. Neal, I admire you. Morgan Shepherd is fine. I'd rather have him in the #10 GoDaddy Chevy than Danican't. 523. Race posted: 07.14.2014 - 10:46 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Atta boy to Mark Beard, Clay Rogers, and the Beard Oil team. I talked with him for my old sports reporter job a few years ago and he always said running Cup was his goal, they withdrew but it looks like they are close. Here's hoping we see the Beard Oil machine on track later this year. 524. Scott B posted: 07.15.2014 - 5:08 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) I'm assuming the Beard team will file an initial entry then withdraw if there are more than 43 on the list. Maybe not at the Brickyard or plate races, but for selected events the rest of the season. Financially, that makes the most sense for a team on a truly minimal budget. 525. Scott B posted: 07.15.2014 - 5:44 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) #510: Out of the probable Chase field, Kurt Busch currently has 5 DNF's, all racked up in the first 12 races. Jo Lo now has 4 after this week's incident. Jeff Gordon remains on the short list of drivers without a DNF in spite of running out of gas during the g/w/c finish, since he was able to coast the #24 around to officially cross the finish line. No driver has an astromical DNF total this season, there hasn't been quite as much start and park in spite of some worrysome trends. 526. Destroyahirismix666 posted: 07.15.2014 - 9:54 am Rate this comment: (1) (0) It seems odd that KU Busch only has 5 DNF's when it feels he should have like...7 to 9. OH well, I'm not complaining. While I won't be watching the series at all after the Glen (save for Atlanta, I'll even ignore Kansas right in my backyard), I'd love to see a driver who severely underperformed or wasn't expected win the championship through alot of bullsh*t such as Kurt Busch or Aric Amirola. Just to rub it in NASCAR's face that this system is nothing but gimmicks. 527. Scott B posted: 07.15.2014 - 11:22 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) #495 "As for your reasons why Morgan was hired, that sponsor had been on the car for the past two races before this one, run by two different drivers (David Stremme and Bobby Labonte), so that doesn't seem to be an issue. I also didn't see any more news about Morgan being in the race then I did when Labonte returned. Also, I highly doubt that they hired him to get "more slack", that seems pretty silly. Maybe they hired him because, you know, they've sucked this year, and they would like to pick his brain and his experience? But you're free to feel however you like." Morgan also drove for Joe Falk back in 1998, when Joe was still pretty much a newcomer to team ownership. Sometimes those connections come full circle years later. 528. DH101 posted: 07.15.2014 - 1:13 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) Honestly I don't think Morgan meant to do what he did to Logano, that can happen to any 43 cars on track. It's an honest mistake. And hell he's a better driver than Logano could ever wish to be. 529. Canadianfan posted: 07.15.2014 - 1:55 pm Rate this comment: (0) (2) Wow the gimmicks just keep coming. NASCAR announced special paint schemes for chasers this year. the splitter will be yellow as well as the windshield name header and the number on the roof. Once a driver is eliminated the paint scheme is removed. I don't know what NASCAR is going to do about the 18, 20, 22, or 27 which all have primarily yellow paint schemes. I guess the number could be a different shade of yellow but that would be stupid and difficult for the spotters to identify their cars especially at Talladega. And what about the 24 its number is already yellow would they have to run the same shade of sprint yellow. I saw drop the splitter colour and roof number colour and just stick with windshield name header. 530. 1995 Subaru WRX STi posted: 07.15.2014 - 2:01 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Wow the gimmicks just keep coming. NASCAR announced special paint schemes for chasers this year. the splitter will be yellow as well as the windshield name header and the number on the roof. Once a driver is eliminated the paint scheme is removed. I don't know what NASCAR is going to do about the 18, 20, 22, or 27 which all have primarily yellow paint schemes. I guess the number could be a different shade of yellow but that would be stupid and difficult for the spotters to identify their cars especially at Talladega. And what about the 24 its number is already yellow would they have to run the same shade of sprint yellow. I saw drop the splitter colour and roof number colour and just stick with windshield name header." Dude, it is just paint, color. Too make them stand out. How is it a gimmick? They do it in the Nationwide for the "dash for cash" is that a gimmick too? Spotters are smart and observent people, they will figure it out. 531. cjs3872 posted: 07.15.2014 - 2:53 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Exactly, 1995 Subaru. It's a way for the competitors and officials to know during the race who's in the Chase and who isn't. After all, the last thing anyone wants is for someone out of the Chase to wreck someone in Chase without realizing it. I know NASCAR usually warns competitors not racing for a championship not to be too aggressive with guys that are going for a championship, but by doing this color change on the bumper and top of the car, it's another way for the competitors to know who's contending for the title and who's not. After all, the last thing anyone wants is a repeat of 1989, when Rusty Wallace got wrecked by a lapped car at Phoenix when he was about to cruise to the title in an incident similar to the Shepherd/Logano incident last Sunday. This way, the competitors will know who's in contention for the title and who isn't. And if there is some chicanery involved (such as a teammate not in the Chase doing something out of the ordinary to help a teammate in the Chase, for instance), NASCAR will take action if the act appears to be deliberate. But again, there must be intent, and that's often hard to judge without going into the radio communications, which is how MWR got busted and why NASCAR decided to add Jeff Gordon as the 13th Chaser last year (as a result of collusion between Penske and Front Row Motorsports to aid Joey Logano that was discovered via radio communications). But it will be easier for everyone to tell who's in the chase and who isn't, especially with teams sporting so many different paint schemes these days, which makes it more difficult to spot what car it is on the track. 532. murb posted: 07.15.2014 - 3:41 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "How is it a gimmick? They do it in the Nationwide for the "dash for cash" is that a gimmick too? Spotters are smart and observent people, they will figure it out." And they also did it in the late 90s/early 2000s with the Winston No Bull cars. No idea what the outrage is all about. It's seriously one of the biggest nitpicks I've ever seen to be mad at the Chase cars having yellow roof numbers and splitters. 533. Scott B posted: 07.15.2014 - 4:21 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The change is for fans, not for drivers or spotters. I'm not outraged about it, but yeah, I'd agree it's a gimmick. 534. Zackary Shawn posted: 07.15.2014 - 4:44 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "I don't know what NASCAR is going to do about the 18, 20, 22, or 27 which all have primarily yellow paint schemes. I guess the number could be a different shade of yellow but that would be stupid and difficult for the spotters to identify their cars especially at Talladega." Dale Jr. won 2 races with a red roof number and a red car...at Talladega. Non issue. 535. startandparkfan posted: 07.15.2014 - 4:44 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) ^Why, it just let fans know who is in the chase and who is not? 536. startandparkfan posted: 07.15.2014 - 4:44 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) My last comment was a reply to 533. 537. RaceFanX posted: 07.15.2014 - 5:46 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I like the yellow spoiler Chaser idea. I miss the orange one they used to do for the Winston No Bull 5 million dollar challenge. 538. RaceFanX posted: 07.15.2014 - 5:56 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Sponsor: #2 Brad Keselowski- Redd's Apple Ale This is Bad Brad's first win in the Redd's car and his second victory in a row using a special paint job. His previous win at Kentucky was in a red, white, and blue "Miller Time for America" paint job. 539. 1995 Subaru WRX STi posted: 07.15.2014 - 6:19 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "^Why, it just let fans know who is in the chase and who is not?" Some of us get the Chase (even tho we disagree with it), some however do not get the Chase. Some remain ignorent because it must take too much time too learn it. Getting in the Chase isn't hard, winning the Chase isn't hard either. Let people know? Some people don't wish too know. NASCAR is trying visual aids too help. NASCAR is a sport is of sight and sound. 540. Chad's Hair Plugs posted: 07.15.2014 - 6:43 pm Rate this comment: (2) (0) NASCAR uses the windshield plates for promotions/special events all the time. Green during April for Earth day Red/White/Blue for Memorial Day & July 4th and they'll probably have Pink for Breast Cancer Month(for those out of the championship) Not a big deal. 541. dennyfan11 posted: 07.15.2014 - 6:49 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I have no problem with the plates. I think they are a nice identification. 542. Feetduck posted: 07.15.2014 - 9:17 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) It's interesting that the 18 has not led 100 laps in a race since the first Dover race in 2013 when the 14 got the win. 543. The Long Shot posted: 07.15.2014 - 9:34 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Ty Dillon will make his Sprint Cup debut at Atlanta in September driving the #33 for RCR, with one more start planned for the year depending on sponsorship. 544. RCRandPenskeGuy posted: 07.15.2014 - 11:13 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) In 2008, it looked like Jimmie Johnson wasn't even going to be a factor for the championship, much less win it. He only had 2 wins up until the Fall Fontana race, and his performance was erratic while Kyle Busch won 8 times and Carl Edwards won 6 times before the Chase. I remember thinking those two were going to leave Jimmie in the dust that year. Instead, the #48 team pushed their "on" button starting with that Fall Fontana race, and it was impossible to keep him out of the Top 5 for the rest of the season, seemingly. 545. cjs3872 posted: 07.16.2014 - 1:35 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) It didn't hurt Johnson that Kyle Busch's team fell on it's face when the Chase started that year, RCRandPenskeGuy. They were as inept during the Chase as they were dominant during the season prior to the Chase. Then they only had Edwards to deal with, and in the second half of the Chase, the #99 team choked, as well. First, Edwards causes a huge crash late in the race at Talladega with his teammate Greg Biffle that he gets swept up in. Then his team gags at Charlotte in the very next race with a faulty ignition system. More than what happened in 2010, Johnson's 2008 title was a result of his rivals tripping over themselves at the most inopportune time. And then when Jimmie rallied to the greatest second place finish of his career at Atlanta, the reaction showed by Edwards showed that he and his team were mentally beaten, because they allowed the #48 team to get in their heads. 546. Chad's Hair Plugs posted: 07.16.2014 - 7:41 am Rate this comment: (1) (0) Note to NASCAR: If Eldora returns to the Truck schedule next year, schedule it for the day after the MLB All-Star game. There is absolutely nothing going on in the sports world today(the ESPYs don't count). 547. The Crimson King posted: 07.16.2014 - 10:16 am Rate this comment: (1) (0) I know some people don't like it that much, but I personally can't wait for Indy. It's still one of my favorite races of the season, if only for the prestige of the event. 548. Zackary Shawn posted: 07.16.2014 - 11:34 am Rate this comment: (4) (0) "In 2008, it looked like Jimmie Johnson wasn't even going to be a factor for the championship, much less win it. He only had 2 wins up until the Fall Fontana race, and his performance was erratic while Kyle Busch won 8 times and Carl Edwards won 6 times before the Chase. I remember thinking those two were going to leave Jimmie in the dust that year. Instead, the #48 team pushed their "on" button starting with that Fall Fontana race, and it was impossible to keep him out of the Top 5 for the rest of the season, seemingly." 2008...the year my NASCAR fandom hit its lowest point. 3 drivers, 2 of whom I don't like, combined to win 24/36 races. 3 drivers won TWO-THIRDS, that's 66.7% for those of you who prefer percentages, of all the events. This was the one year I legitimately considered calling it quits. I, and many of you on here, had to suffer through 2 more years of Jimmie Johnson championships before the bleeding finally stopped, including the agonizing 2010 Chase where it looked like it was over. Nobody will ever convince me that Jimmie Johnson's five year stretch did not play a significant role in the downward trend of NASCAR ratings and attendance. For a lot of people, what's the point in watching when you already know the outcome, an outcome that you are unsatisfied with? It's like Groundhog's Day. Sorry for the rant, but that's how I feel. 549. 1995 Subaru WRX STi posted: 07.16.2014 - 2:21 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "I, and many of you on here, had to suffer through 2 more years of Jimmie Johnson championships before the bleeding finally stopped, including the agonizing 2010 Chase where it looked like it was over. Nobody will ever convince me that Jimmie Johnson's five year stretch did not play a significant role in the downward trend of NASCAR ratings and attendance. For a lot of people, what's the point in watching when you already know the outcome, an outcome that you are unsatisfied with? It's like Groundhog's Day. Sorry for the rant, but that's how I feel." So basically the down turn in ratings and butts in the seats can be blamed on the field. It was everyone elses job too win and they didn't do it. So i'd like too blame the teams for costing NASCAR so much during that 5 year run, thanks everyone. 550. cjs3872 posted: 07.16.2014 - 3:47 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Zack, what happened with three drivers winning two-thirds of the races is hardly unprecedented. In 1998, Jeff Gordon and Mark Martin combined to win 20 of 33 races, and Bobby Allison and Darrell Waltrip combined to, in a 31-race season, win 18 and 20 races between them in 1981 and '82 respectively. And in 1987, Dale Earnhardt and Bill Elliott won 17 of 29 races between them. But the worst year of all in terms of this was 1974, when three drivers, Richard Petty, David Pearson, and Cale Yarborough combined to win 27 of 30 races, or 90% between the three of them. And as I mentioned in post #545, the biggest reason why Jimmie Johnson, who did have a lackluster first half, won the championship (other than the Chase, of course) was because his only real competitors imploded in the Chase, essentially giving Johnson a walkover. Kyle Busch's team self-destructed right from the beginning of the Chase and Carl Edwards and his team did the same thing about halfway through the Chase, and then Edwards himself showed how mentally weak he was at Atlanta when he let Jimmie Johnson's rally to second place effectively defeat him in a race he won. Once that happened, Johnson was effectively unchallenged as he won his third title. 551. TS1420 posted: 07.16.2014 - 4:10 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) While I won't place all the blame on Johnson for the downturn of NASCAR, he and especially his 2006-2010 "Groundhog's Day" reign of terror sure as hell haven't helped any. 552. joey2448 posted: 07.16.2014 - 11:31 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) For me, it sure didn't help that Johnson beat Jeff Gordon in 2007 when we all know that was rightfully Gordon's title. I was happy to see Jimmie win his inaugural championship in 2006, because he had come close in 04 and 05, but when he went back to back and stole a championship from Gordon (That damn Chase again) that's when my JJ hate began. When he won titles in 08, 09 and 10, it just became depressing (although when he won his fifth, I did come to hold a certain respect for him. I mean that was just an unbelievable accomplishment, even with the gimmick that is the Chase). 553. racefangurl posted: 07.17.2014 - 11:02 am Rate this comment: (0) (1) Morgan Shepherd is an old coot, but I wonder if what Joey did made him loose to the point he could no longer control his car, even if I am a Joey fan. Someone said Joey took the air off the old coot's car. 554. Anonymous posted: 07.17.2014 - 12:12 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) "Morgan Shepherd is an old coot, but I wonder if what Joey did made him loose to the point he could no longer control his car, even if I am a Joey fan. Someone said Joey took the air off the old coot's car. " This sums up just about every problem in the world quite nicely. 555. JP88 posted: 07.17.2014 - 3:13 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "For me, it sure didn't help that Johnson beat Jeff Gordon in 2007 when we all know that was rightfully Gordon's title. I was happy to see Jimmie win his inaugural championship in 2006, because he had come close in 04 and 05, but when he went back to back and stole a championship from Gordon (That damn Chase again) that's when my JJ hate began. When he won titles in 08, 09 and 10, it just became depressing (although when he won his fifth, I did come to hold a certain respect for him. I mean that was just an unbelievable accomplishment, even with the gimmick that is the Chase)." Yeah I agree 100%. I didn't mind him winning in '06 because he earned that one, but it was just amazing how in some years where he clearly wasn't the best he got away with a title because of the Chase (Like '08 and '10). Yet when Johnson has a year in where he deserved it, he never gets ousted because of the Chase by someone who wasn't quite as good but got hot in the final 10. 556. jabber1990 posted: 07.17.2014 - 3:26 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) This may have been disucsed before, but of the 10 previous Chases which ones were won by those who deserved them? which were won because everyone just gave up? 557. The Long Shot posted: 07.17.2014 - 4:04 pm Rate this comment: (2) (0) I feel I'd be remiss if I didn't extend an "R.I.P." to those who were affected by and/or killed in the Malaysian Airlines disaster in Ukraine, especially (though not solely) because of the amount of Americans and children killed. 558. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.17.2014 - 4:51 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) "I feel I'd be remiss if I didn't extend an "R.I.P." to those who were affected by and/or killed in the Malaysian Airlines disaster in Ukraine, especially (though not solely) because of the amount of Americans and children killed. " Putin's an inimical bastard. 559. The Long Shot posted: 07.17.2014 - 5:47 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Putin's an inimical bastard." I agree, although it's still unknown how much direct involvement he had in the attack, if any. Likewise, anyone who continues to compare Obama to Putin is a disrespectful scumbag, though certainly not in the same class as Putin. 560. jabber1990 posted: 07.17.2014 - 6:08 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) if WW3 breaks out will we have the high amounts of patriotism much like we did in WW2 and post 9-11? 561. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.17.2014 - 6:14 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) "if WW3 breaks out will we have the high amounts of patriotism much like we did in WW2 and post 9-11? " No, because the crowds with say being anti-Russia is "being intolerant of Russia," just like how Moe Howard's Hitler and Japanese mocking is now considered "intolerant," for whatever dumb reason. They were our enemies then, and those films were made to encourage patriotism. Just because the Japanese are now our allies and Hitler is dead does not mean those films were not accurate in 1942. Did I mention Putin's a bastard? 562. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.17.2014 - 6:15 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) "I agree, although it's still unknown how much direct involvement he had in the attack, if any. Likewise, anyone who continues to compare Obama to Putin is a disrespectful scumbag, though certainly not in the same class as Putin. " It was supporters of the insurrection he started, so... Putin's an inimical bastard. 563. dennyfan11 posted: 07.17.2014 - 6:35 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Wow...We Moved to the Chase to Putin. Interesting how discussions wander,right? 564. jabber1990 posted: 07.17.2014 - 7:19 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Wow...We Moved to the Chase to Putin. Interesting how discussions wander,right?" that is one (of many) reasons why i'm not allowed to discuss my stories on the message boards anymore, 565. 1995 Subaru WRX STi posted: 07.17.2014 - 7:46 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "For me, it sure didn't help that Johnson beat Jeff Gordon in 2007 when we all know that was rightfully Gordon's title." Jeff should have done better then. I mean really 6 wins, 21 top 5 and 30 top 10 and he didn't win? BTW during Jimmies 4 straight wins, Jeff finished top 5 once (that would be the 1st race of Jimmies 4 in a row run.) BTW 06 and 07 don't count for Jimmie because he got busted for cheating, Jeff got busted for cheating as well. So i'm not bias here. 566. TS1420 posted: 07.17.2014 - 8:33 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) 2007 & 2009 were more Knaus won championships than anything. Jimmie's biggest competition during those years we all Hendrick affiliated drivers (Gordon in '07, Gordon-Stewart-Martin in '09) and Knaus had their support cut during Chase time. 567. David posted: 07.17.2014 - 9:54 pm Rate this comment: (1) (1) 1995 Subaru: You're making it sound like Jeff was solely at fault for his 2007 title loss. TEAMS, not drivers, win championships. Besides, even if Jeff had finished third in every one of those four consecutive wins by Johnson, he'd have still lost. Even besides that, I don't really care. I've said it before and I will say it again: Championships don't mean much in the grand scheme of things. When I think of tragic events like the Malaysia Airlines disaster--or even the latest events unfolding in the Middle East--all I can say is: is this the world we created? 568. The Long Shot posted: 07.18.2014 - 9:55 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "It was supporters of the insurrection he started, so... Putin's an inimical bastard." Fair enough. "When I think of tragic events like the Malaysia Airlines disaster--or even the latest events unfolding in the Middle East--all I can say is: is this the world we created?" Not sure if it was intentional or not, but if so, that was a pretty unfortunate time for a Queen reference. 569. The Crimson King posted: 07.18.2014 - 12:21 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "When I think of tragic events like the Malaysia Airlines disaster--or even the latest events unfolding in the Middle East--all I can say is: is this the world we created?" The thing is, the world has always been like this. Pick up a history book and you'll see stuff like this is nothing new. 570. DB1995 posted: 07.18.2014 - 12:34 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Eldora is Wednesday, Gray Gaulding will be in it (I like him but he will spin out at least 5 times) and Michael Annett will be his teammate, from my understanding this is Michaels first race EVER on dirt. 571. David posted: 07.18.2014 - 12:46 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I must be losing it. I think I'll take a few days off from the site and clear my head. I'll still be updating the TUSCC fantasy game, though, so don't worry. 572. SpeedWorld97 posted: 07.18.2014 - 1:09 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Eldora is Wednesday, Gray Gaulding will be in it (I like him but he will spin out at least 5 times) and Michael Annett will be his teammate, from my understanding this is Michaels first race EVER on dirt." Well we all know that if Gray Gaulding is running second on the last lap, then the leader better be worried (see: 2013 UNOH Battle at the Beach at Daytona and the 2013 Casino Arizona 50). 573. DB1995 posted: 07.18.2014 - 1:10 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Well we all know that if Gray Gaulding is running second on the last lap, then the leader better be worried (see: 2013 UNOH Battle at the Beach at Daytona and the 2013 Casino Arizona 50). i honestly dont think we have to worry about him getting to 2nd. 574. racefangurl posted: 07.18.2014 - 2:05 pm Rate this comment: (2) (0) Well, is Putin or Malaysia Airlines worse than the Chase? I mean, people hate the Chase or at least don't like it and someone called Putin a name. Maybe we can wander back. Maybe they should put a dirt track race in the Chase. 575. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.18.2014 - 2:37 pm Rate this comment: (0) (3) "Well, is Putin or Malaysia Airlines worse than the Chase? I mean, people hate the Chase or at least don't like it and someone called Putin a name." I have a friend who is Russian and Ukrainian, so your lack of sensitivity toward the political situation there is quite disappointing. 576. The Long Shot posted: 07.18.2014 - 3:12 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "I must be losing it. I think I'll take a few days off from the site and clear my head." For what reasons? I meant no harm with my comment; I was just inquiring whether or not the reference was intentional. 577. Zackary Shawn posted: 07.18.2014 - 3:30 pm Rate this comment: (2) (0) "Well, is Putin or Malaysia Airlines worse than the Chase? I mean, people hate the Chase or at least don't like it and someone called Putin a name. Maybe we can wander back. Maybe they should put a dirt track race in the Chase." One of the few times in my life I can't figure out what the poster was trying to say, other than the first sentence. It doesn't seem like proceeding sentences have anything to do with preceding sentences. 578. Chad's Hair Plugs posted: 07.18.2014 - 5:24 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I think it was just a weird attempt at trying to steer the conversation away from politics or tragedy. 579. 1995 Subaru WRX STi posted: 07.18.2014 - 5:31 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "1995 Subaru: You're making it sound like Jeff was solely at fault for his 2007 title loss. TEAMS, not drivers, win championships. Besides, even if Jeff had finished third in every one of those four consecutive wins by Johnson, he'd have still lost." I'm not blaming Jeff solely David, i'd never do that. Rules were the same for everyone in 2007. Everyone knew how it would be played out in the grand scheme of things. I just take issue with those who SOLELY blame the Chase for Jeff not winning it in 2007. 580. Feetduck posted: 07.18.2014 - 7:45 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I wonder who is going to finish every race this season 581. 23andJoe posted: 07.18.2014 - 8:54 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) >Eldora is Wednesday, Gray Gaulding will be in it (I like him but he will spin out at least 5 times) and Michael Annett will be his teammate, from my understanding this is Michaels first race EVER on dirt. And Chase Pistone will be in the team's third truck. Let's not forget, though, that Annett's father is a long-time sprint-car team owner. 582. An Aussie Commentator posted: 07.18.2014 - 10:35 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "I wonder who is going to finish every race this season" Nobody. 583. DB1995 posted: 07.18.2014 - 11:40 pm Rate this comment: (3) (0) Why is that plane crash even being discussed on here?, its not relevant to racing at all 584. DB1995 posted: 07.19.2014 - 1:12 am Rate this comment: (0) (2) We should be talking about how Tony Stewart got in a sprint car and DIDNT wreck half the field 585. startandparkfan posted: 07.19.2014 - 9:20 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) ^In fact, he won! 586. DB1995 posted: 07.19.2014 - 10:24 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) ""I wonder who is going to finish every race this season" Nobody" Why not?, there are plenty of drivers left that could do it, Jeff Gordon, Brad Keselowski, All 3 RCR cars and Casey Mears 587. DB1995 posted: 07.19.2014 - 10:25 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) ^^and Marcos Ambrose 588. Anonymous posted: 07.19.2014 - 1:03 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) R.I.P. NASCAR on Turner Sports 1983-2014 TBS 1983-2000 TNT 2001-2014 589. racefangurl posted: 07.19.2014 - 7:39 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Zackary Shawn, Chad's Hair Plugs got it right. I was mentioning all the most recent race related things in an attempt to steer the conversation back to racing and I'm kinda weird. There was some Chase and dirt track race talk. Maybe a dirt Chase race would increase ratings, at least at first. Novelty. 590. Anonymous posted: 07.19.2014 - 7:46 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) "Zackary Shawn, Chad's Hair Plugs got it right. I was mentioning all the most recent race related things in an attempt to steer the conversation back to racing and I'm kinda weird. There was some Chase and dirt track race talk. Maybe a dirt Chase race would increase ratings, at least at first. Novelty. " Next time steer away from making it sound insensitive. Dirt track would be awesome, but it ain't happenin. Teams would cry about suspension costs. 591. CBASS posted: 07.19.2014 - 8:24 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Sponsor updates #42 Target/ Cottonelle #99 Fastenal/ GearWrench #47 Kingsford/ Scott Products/ Bush's Best #55 Aaron's "Own It" #36 Porter & Chester Institute #32 Androzene #83 Burger King/ Dr. Pepper 592. Zackary Shawn posted: 07.20.2014 - 11:23 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) The lead up to this year's Indy race hasn't (so far) been the negative whinefest that it was last year. Very impressed. Then again, I feel like a lot of the posters who were leading the whine-brigade last year don't post here anymore, so it's not that surprising. 593. David posted: 07.20.2014 - 12:52 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "For what reasons? I meant no harm with my comment; I was just inquiring whether or not the reference was intentional." I wasn't sure what you meant when you said that the timing of my reference (yes, it was intentional) was "unfortunate". I was thinking that you thought my comment was in poor taste or something, so I just decided to take some time off. It's an off weekend, anyway. "I'm not blaming Jeff solely David, i'd never do that. Rules were the same for everyone in 2007. Everyone knew how it would be played out in the grand scheme of things. I just take issue with those who SOLELY blame the Chase for Jeff not winning it in 2007." That's fair enough. I understand. 594. The Crimson King posted: 07.20.2014 - 12:56 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) @592 Dude I LOVE Indy. I mean it doesn't produce the best racing but the prestige of the racetrack itself is something I love. I'm super excited for it. 595. SpeedWorld97 posted: 07.20.2014 - 7:11 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "The lead up to this year's Indy race hasn't (so far) been the negative whinefest that it was last year. Very impressed. Then again, I feel like a lot of the posters who were leading the whine-brigade last year don't post here anymore, so it's not that surprising." I sort of agree with The Crimson King. Indianapolis is one of the greatest tracks in the world. It's full of prestige, history, and tradition, and the Month of May at Indianapolis is truly one of the greatest times of the year for a race fan. However, year after year the Brickyard 400 has truly been a let down, especially in comparison with the Indianapolis 500. It's basically a one-lane race track for Cup cars. I would not mind it at all if they ran the Cup race on the IMS road course, which seems like a better track since they reconfigured the road course or if they added the apron for the Cup race only. 596. Jared posted: 07.20.2014 - 7:58 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) @ 548 Here's Johnson year by year: 2002- wins 3 races, and yet with only 6 top 5 finishes, had the points lead after Kansas. But they kinda fell off after he and Mark Martin collided on the pace laps at Talladega. 2002 seemed to be a year where nobody wanted to win the title and it's debatable on who the "best" driver of that year was. 2003- wins the Coke 600 and sweeps New Hampshire. Finishes 90 points behind Kenseth thought it really wasn't that close. Ended the year with 6 top 3 finishes while Kenseth, who had the title virtually clinched since late fall, had some poor finishes down the stretch. 2004- There's no arguing that Johnson was the best driver and would've won the Chase if not for DNF's at Talladega and Kansas. Gordon may have had the more consistent overall season and Kurt Busch may have had the most consistent Chase, but neither had the sheer speed of the 48. 2005- Led the points for most of the first half but didn't have the speed of the 20 or the 16. After Stewart went on a tear during the summer months, nobody was beating them. Mathematically still had a change going into Homestead but wrecked, if I remember right. 2006- Kind of a weak year competition wise, with Johnson's only competition being the 17. Went on a stretch similar to that of 03 where he racked up a bunch of top 5's and more or less coasted to his first title. 2007- Johnson and Gordon were far and away the dominant teams, and while Gordon would've run away with the championship under the old format based on his ridiculous consistency (20 top tens in the first 22 races), Johnson was just as good the entire season but had a few DNF's. The title merely came down to the three race stretch of Atlanta, Texas, and Phoenix. While Johnson won all three races, Gordon finished 7th, 7th, and 10th. Gordon still had the opportunity to win the Chase yet they didn't deliver down the stretch. 2008- It's hard not to agree with you on this. Kyle Busch and Carl Edwards looked like the two guys to beat during the regular season, especially after the fall Bristol race. But with the 18 team choking right out of the gate and with the 99 team DNF'ing at Dega and Charlotte, Johnson and co. cruised to the title. This isn't to say that Johnson won the title on sheer luck. They had 3 wins, 6 top 5's, 8 top 10's, and 961 laps led. After Edwards closed the gap with a win at Texas, the 48 team responded with a dominant win at Phoenix. 2009- This is probably Johnson's second best season (we'll get to his best season here in a bit). Over 2200 laps led- which is unheard of in recent years- while leading the most laps in a race 9 times and leading 40 or more laps 16 times. Easily their most dominant Chase: 4 wins, 7 top 5's, 9 top 10's, and 986 laps led. If not for the crash at Texas, he may have clinched the title before Homestead. 2010- This is the only one of Johnson's titles that I will agree with all the haters. For whatever reason, the other major teams made gains on the 48 and, while winning 6 races , they weren't quite the team from the previous 3 seasons. The 29 was the most consistent team all year (26 top 10's) while the 11 team showed the most speed (5 wins in an 10 race stretch from April to June). Johnson only recorded one win during the Chase and their finishes were roughly the same as the 29 and 11. As most fans know, the deciding moment of the Chase was Hamlin pitting for fuel and costing himself a win at Phoenix. By making that call, the 11 team cost themselves over 60 points and lost any kind of confidence going into Homestead. In hindsight, it may have not been a surprise to see the 11 team lose the title, but it was shocking knowing that they had the title in their grasp. 2011- Johnson's one "off" season since the team started their run. Won only twice (the photo finish at Dega and a dominant win in the fall at Kansas) and suffered the kinds of bad breaks that rarely occurred the previous 5 seasons. The main takeaway from this season is the Stewart-Edwards battle and not why the 48 team strangely took a step back. 2012- This is the other season besides 2004 where they should've won the title. I know the 2 team, through various points, beat the 48 team at their own game. However, it's shocking to think that after winning back to back races, the 48 team let the title slip out of their hands. Perhaps it was fitting that their season ended the way it did. Consider what had occurred during the regular season: wrecked on lap 2 of the Daytona 500, was a victim of Bowyer's divebomb at Martinsville, blew an engine at Dega early in the race, received a speeding penalty in the Coke 600 during a long green flag run, wrecked at the July Daytona race, spun out while leading at Pocono before the rain came, and blew an engine while leading at Michigan with 5 laps to go. 2013- Johnson's best season from start to finish. Would have won under the Latford system by roughly 200 points over Kenseth. Took the points lead after winning the Martinsville spring race and held it for the rest of the regular season. Had a large points lead despite poor luck in June (the restart snafus at Dover and Kentucky and the blown tire at Michigan). Posted 9 top ten's during the Chase; the race he didn't finish in the top ten was Dega, where he finished 13th and led the most laps. After Kenseth tied Johnson in the standings after Martinsville, the 48 team responded with a crushing win at Texas. It's easy to say that Kenseth's title hopes ended at Phoenix, but this was that race in my opinion. 2014- TBD. Though Johnson has won 3 races- including two in vintage, 48 fashion- I think teams have caught up to the 48 once again. The 48 team hasn't been as fast as the 4 or the two Penske cars, and hasn't been as consistent as the 24 and 88. However, they should never ever ever be counted out of a title hunt. So in total, I have four seasons where the 48 is the undisputed champion (2006, 2008, 2009, and 2013), one where he shouldn't have won (2010), and two that he should have (2004 and 2012) 597. Feetduck posted: 07.20.2014 - 9:31 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I wonder whos going to be the 4 cars battleing for the championship 598. dennyfan11 posted: 07.21.2014 - 11:04 am Rate this comment: (0) (1) I have 2 trivia questions for you. 1.Which race ended in the darkest conditions? 2.What team had the most owners through the years? 599. Zackary Shawn posted: 07.21.2014 - 11:22 am Rate this comment: (1) (0) "2013- Johnson's best season from start to finish. Would have won under the Latford system by roughly 200 points over Kenseth. Took the points lead after winning the Martinsville spring race and held it for the rest of the regular season." I hate to be nitpicky, but that's actually not true. Carl Edwards won the regular season "championship" by 1 point over Johnson. So Jimmie actually lost the regular season points lead at Richmond even before the points were reset. 600. David posted: 07.21.2014 - 11:42 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "1.Which race ended in the darkest conditions?" Weather-wise? Just about every night race ever run. Darkest without the benefit of track lights? I'd say the 2013 Aaron's 499, since it actually ran to the finish (i.e. wasn't called on account of darkness). "2.What team had the most owners through the years?" That's difficult to research, since this site records individual owners, but I'd probably guess it was the former Yates Racing. It started out under ownership of Harry Ranier, who ran it from 1967 to 1988. He then sold it to Robert Yates, who owned it through 2007, then *officially* turned over control to his son, Doug Yates. After a few years, they merged with Richard Petty Motorsports. I could be way off on one or both of those questions, though. 601. Jared posted: 07.21.2014 - 12:44 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) ZacharyShawn, you are right. I completely forgot about that. That's my bad. And @ 597, as of now I'd pick Johnson, Jr., Keselowski, and either Gordon or Kenseth. I think Logano and Harvick have the speed necessary to get into the "Final Four" but lack the consistency 602. cjs3872 posted: 07.21.2014 - 1:16 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) @597, if I had to guess, I would pick Johnson, both of Penske's cars, and Kevin Harvick to be the four to battle it out for the championship. Dale, Jr. and Jeff Gordon may be the two most consistent drivers so far this season, but I'm not even sure they'll make it past the first round, simply because I'm not sure either will win during the Chase, and both usually figure out a way to have a bad race when they can least afford it. If three other drivers win in those first three Chase races, I don't see either Dale, Jr. or Gordon making it to the second round, much less the final race. The best I think Dale, Jr. or Gordon can do in the Chase is fifth place, because the others that are knocked out join the points pool, where I think Dale, Jr. and Gordon can beat them over 10 races. 603. Sean posted: 07.21.2014 - 1:16 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "if they added the apron for the Cup race only." I thought they WERE bringing back the apron for this race? I read that repeatedly months ago and was not exactly enthusiastic about it considering how dangerous I thought the apron was. I don't know how they're going to keep IndyCar drivers from using it. Was that work not finished because they've been focusing on having the new high-tech pylon ready for the Brickyard? 604. Anonymous posted: 07.21.2014 - 2:28 pm Rate this comment: (2) (0) @602 If that really does happen that'll be a shame. If you asked me who the "best" driver this year is, I'd say it'd either be Gordon, Jr. or Brad. 2014 should be a classic points championship battle between Jr. and Gordon with Brad making gains on both of them and potentially making it a 3-man contest. Instead we have a stupid chase. 605. cjs3872 posted: 07.21.2014 - 2:43 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Exactly, Anonymous (#604). While Dale, Jr. and Jeff Gordon have been the most consistent drivers this season, I think it's a near-certainty that they'll have a bad race in either one of the first three races, or one of the second three races, one of which is Talladega. And since I don't think either Dale, Jr. or Gordon will win in the Chase, one bad race ends it for them, and I think one or both of them gets knocked out in the first three races and the other one get knocked out in the next three races, making both of them spectators for round three, as well at the finale, where the championship is concerned. 606. Feetduck posted: 07.21.2014 - 3:02 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I wonder whos going to get elimated at the first round in the chase 607. Jared posted: 07.21.2014 - 4:08 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) @ 602, I'm not sure why you believe Junior and Gordon will have a poor race when they can least afford it. For Gordon, the only poor races they've had were Dega (where he was running well but got caught up in the Keselowski-Bayne mess) and last week at Loudon where they ran out of fuel when the last caution came out. What was amazing about last week was they had problems with the car yet worked on them, got track positon, and almost netted a top 5. Those are the types of races that will keep a driver in contention in the Chase. And the only "bad" races Junior's had were Texas (he crashed less than 15 laps in, so it's hard to say how good of a car he would have had), Bristol, and Charlotte (had a top 10 car all race before having problems). If two drivers will have a poor race when they can least afford it, it's Logano and Harvick. They have had top 5 speed all year but have had a myriad of problems, whether it be mechanical failures or simple bad luck. Both teams are good enough to make it into the final 4, but it wouldn't shock me if both had something go wrong and it cost them a shot at Homestead. @ 605 I don't think Almirola will make it past the first round, and I'm not sure if Edwards would make it past the first round based on how that team's been running lately. 608. Daniel posted: 07.21.2014 - 4:28 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) 46 entered at Indy: -Juan Pablo Montoya in the #12 -Trevor Bayne in the #21 -Matt Crafton in the #29 -Travis Kvapil in the #32 -David Stremme in the #33 -Bobby Labonte in the #37 -Brett Moffitt in the #66 -Michael McDowell in the #95 -#87, #93 not entered 609. The Crimson King posted: 07.21.2014 - 4:40 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) As pessimistic as I want to be, I can't see both Jr/Gordon missing the final round, unless the final round is all filled with a bunch of nobodies. 610. cjs3872 posted: 07.21.2014 - 5:46 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Which is a possibility with Talladega being one of the elimination races, @609. And Jared (#607), there are simple reasons why I think Dale, Jr. and Jeff Gordon may have at least one clunker at the start of the Chase, and current HMS crew chiefs are reasons why for both drivers. For Dale, Jr., the problem likely lies with Chad Knaus, since the 88 team is in the same shop as the 48 team is. There's a very good chance that Knaus will simply "turn off the information spicket" and Dale, Jr.'s performance will suffer as a result. And as for Jeff, the problem lies with Alan Gustafson, his crew chief, because you know that he'll likely make the one tactical decision that costs his team enough to cause them to miss out on advancing. Also, if anyone has a DNF in those first three races, that by itself may cost them a shot at advancing, and Dale, Jr. had an engine failure at Chicago in the Chase opener last year. And Gustafson made a tactical error at Loudon in Chase race #2 so blatant that even the ESPN commentators criticized him on the spot, and they proved to be right. Those, for starters, are good reasons why Dale, Jr. and Gordon may miss the cut, and I don't expect either to be among the final eight battling for the title. And as for Harvick and Logano, they may have problems, but they have enough speed to get victories, which alone will offset any problems they may have, and I don't think Gordon or Dale, Jr. can get any victories in the Chase, largely for the reasons mentioned, not to mention that I don't think they have enough speed to win races, particularly Gordon. Gordon has to have a race fall a particular way for him to be able to win (every one of the races he's won with Gustafson, except for the tragic 2012 race at Pocono has ended with a long green flag run), and I don't think Dale, Jr. will be much of a factor in the Chase because his cars won't be as good. In fact, unless something strange happens (which is a definite possibility with Talladega in the mix), I would expect Johnson, Harvick, and the two Penske drivers to be the ones deciding the championship at Homestead. 611. Chad's Hair Plugs posted: 07.21.2014 - 6:40 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I've always felt(and am probably right)that Knaus has a "hidden folder" of information that is only accessed by him and those if any in his inner circle. He puts the basic information into the Hendrick database so that all the teams are competitive but he keeps his secrets for him and only him. Which makes me curious about Jr.'s new crew chief in '15. If Ron Malec becomes the crew chief for the 88, will he have the secrets that Knaus has used for the past 12 years to transform Dale Jr. into Superman? 612. Eric posted: 07.21.2014 - 7:09 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Chad's Hair Plugs, I really question if Ron Malec can turn Dale Jr. into Superman if becomes Dale Jr's crew chief for 2015. The problem is cup drivers usually don't suddenly get a cup championship deep in their career as Dale Jr is right now unless you are Bobby Allison. The other thing is cup driver usually don't get a career high on any good stat based on the length of time Dale Jr. has been in cup if he has been on great teams prior. 613. Jim Davis posted: 07.21.2014 - 7:53 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "While Dale, Jr. and Jeff Gordon have been the most consistent drivers this season, I think it's a near-certainty that they'll have a bad race in either one of the first three races, or one of the second three races, one of which is Talladega." But keep in mind there's a "win and your in" rule throughout the chase. A victory in any segment automatically qualifies one for the next segment. While a DNF is still not good, it can be overcome with a win. 614. cjs3872 posted: 07.21.2014 - 8:08 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Which, Jim Davis, is the very reason why I think that Kevin Harvick and Joey Logano would be able to overcome a bad race in the Chase. They have the speed to win. What I'm saying is that Dale, Jr. and Jeff have to rely on consistency because I don't think either Jeff or Dale, Jr. can win in the Chase. Dale, Jr. is likely not to have cars as good in the Chase as he does now, and Jeff is likely to get sabotaged by the continuous tactical errors made by his crew chief which is likely to prevent him from having opportunities to win races. Jeff runs in the top five frequently, but tactical screw-ups by his crew chief and his own conservative nature on restarts will cost him any chance at winning races, as well as winning the title, and I think he's likely to get eliminated by the end of the second round, if he's not by the end of the first round. (He's going to enter the Chase in worse position than Dale's going to be in when the Chase begins, which is why I think a first-round KO is more likely for Jeff than it would be for Dale, since Dale will likely enter with two wins to Jeff's likely one win.) Dale, Jr.'s biggest problem lies in his own shop, as Chad Knaus will likely see to it that Dale, Jr. doesn't get the cars he's been having, which will cost him a shot a winning races, and I see him getting bounced by the end of the second round, as well. 615. CHAD posted: 07.21.2014 - 9:01 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) LAST RACE ON TNT 616. Anonymous posted: 07.22.2014 - 7:26 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Jeff runs in the top five frequently, but tactical screw-ups by his crew chief and his own conservative nature on restarts will cost him any chance at winning races, as well as winning the title, and I think he's likely to get eliminated by the end of the second round, if he's not by the end of the first round. " Explains why so many authors are marveling at how Jeff Gordon has figured out the restarts this year. "Dale, Jr.'s biggest problem lies in his own shop, as Chad Knaus will likely see to it that Dale, Jr. doesn't get the cars he's been having, which will cost him a shot a winning races, and I see him getting bounced by the end of the second round, as well. " 2007, Brute? 617. Zackary Shawn posted: 07.22.2014 - 11:12 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Dale Jr. and Jeff Gordon will both make it into 3rd round at minimum. I just don't see 8 other drivers performing better in The Chase than those two in order to eliminate them early on. 618. Anonymous posted: 07.22.2014 - 4:02 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Anyone else think it's psychotically biased of NASCAR to use the same ass-hat rules for Eldora that they used last year? Those rules were shit and made everything confusing... never mind the fact that the rules were a conspiracy just to keep the dirt-track guys out. 619. The Crimson King posted: 07.22.2014 - 7:51 pm Rate this comment: (2) (0) I still think on points alone, they can get to 3rd round at least. And isn't there a points position open for one of 4 final spots (3 "win and in" spots and 1 left)? Bah, this is why we should still have the classic system in place. This would be an amazing points battle any other season pre-2003 620. KennyWallaceFan posted: 07.22.2014 - 8:07 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Brian France announced that for 2015 NASCAR will have minimal changes to the schedule. What a shame. 621. An Aussie Commentator posted: 07.22.2014 - 9:55 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Anyone else think it's psychotically biased of NASCAR to use the same ass-hat rules for Eldora that they used last year? Those rules were shit and made everything confusing... never mind the fact that the rules were a conspiracy just to keep the dirt-track guys out." Plus the top 20 rule means that Jennifer Jo Cobb has to try and be in the top 5 in her heat race/last-chance race in a truck that, proportionately speaking, is as slow as Morgan Shepered at this race. 622. cjs3872 posted: 07.22.2014 - 10:39 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Not if they have a bad race, The Crimson King. With only three races in each of the first three segments, any bad race is virtually fatal, especially if you can't win, or don't have the speed to win. With the points reset after the 26th race, drivers with an identical number of wins are theoretically tied. That means that Jeff Gordon, who's led the points most of the year, wouldn't be in any better position entering the Chase than either Kurt Busch or Aric Almirola, who aren't even in the top 20 in points, are because they each have the same number of wins (1), something I don't expect to change. In fact, of those three, I think Busch actually has the best chance of winning prior to the Chase cutoff. If I'm not mistaken, everyone's points are reset to the same amount with bonus points added for each win. It's not the system I proposed on this board two years ago, in which drivers getting into the Chase are seeded on points position first, then extra bonus points being added for wins for the top ten. But right now, if the Chase started today, Gordon would be tied with two drivers not even in the top 20 in the current standings, because of having an identical number of wins. Dale, Jr. would be in a better predicament because he has two wins (thanks to Brad Keselowski), but one bad race effectively is the end for any driver that doesn't win, and I don't think either Dale, Jr. or Gordon will win during the Chase, or any time the rest of the season. And the current points system is so murderous on drivers that have even one bad race that if Gordon or Dale, Jr. have a problem in the Chase opener and don't win by the third race, their chance at the title would come to an abrupt end after the third Chase race, because even getting into the top 10-12 may be difficult. 623. joey2448 posted: 07.22.2014 - 11:30 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) "1.Which race ended in the darkest conditions?" I thought somebody here would've answered with the 2007 Kansas race. That one was as dark as a Kenyan marathon runner when it wrapped up. I remember ESPN interviewing Gordon and Johnson afterwards and had to use the camera's lights to see the drivers, and when you saw the twilight in the sky in the background, the whole place just looked dark. 624. murb posted: 07.23.2014 - 12:06 am Rate this comment: (1) (0) "Brian France announced that for 2015 NASCAR will have minimal changes to the schedule." Luckily, considering Brainless Brian's low IQ, there's a very good chance he just mixed up "minimal" and "many". Seriously, I wouldn't rule it out. I too though will be pretty disappointed if they just roll out the same schedule again. With the new TV deal, it's the perfect time to shake everything up schedule wise. I have no idea why they wouldn't take the opportunity to move some races around and possibly look at adding a new track or two. 625. Anonymous posted: 07.23.2014 - 6:35 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Already down 3 entries at Eldora comped to last year. Expecting them to not have a full field after 2016 unless they make the rules like the Indy 500: fastest 30 in no holds barred. The novelty will wear off as well and soon it will be like every other truck race: short field 626. Anonymous posted: 07.23.2014 - 6:42 am Rate this comment: (0) (4) Nice job Jayski missing that H.G. Rosier died. Asshat has lost all respect for history and now intentionally ignores when the old guys die. Hell, I had to tell him that Gary Bettenhausen died. 627. DB1995 posted: 07.23.2014 - 9:52 am Rate this comment: (1) (0) I hope Jimmie Johnson, Jeff Gordon, Dale Jr, and Kevin Harvick get eliminated after the 1st round just so NASCAR has to deal with the backlash from the fans of these drivers over there stupid chase. It would be beyond hilarious if Aric Almorola won the chase somehow, to also show NASCAR how shit there system is 628. David posted: 07.23.2014 - 11:30 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Brian France announced that for 2015 NASCAR will have minimal changes to the schedule." He didn't actually "announce" it, but it is indeed a titanic disappointment. "Nice job Jayski missing that H.G. Rosier died. Asshat has lost all respect for history and now intentionally ignores when the old guys die." And how are you certain that he's intentionally ignoring them? "I hope Jimmie Johnson, Jeff Gordon, Dale Jr, and Kevin Harvick get eliminated after the 1st round just so NASCAR has to deal with the backlash from the fans of these drivers over there stupid chase." And because they happen to be your least favorite drivers. Seriously, even if that scenario did occur, any fan backlash would be completely unjustified. Those four drivers and teams know just as well as anyone else what they need to do in the Chase, and if they don't do it, they're eliminated. I'm not ruling out the possibility of bad luck or freak circumstances (especially in the case of Harvick), but all any of those or any Chase drivers need to do in the first round to advance to the second round is win. "It would be beyond hilarious if Aric Almorola won the chase somehow, to also show NASCAR how shit there system is" I do, however, agree with you here. This would be cause for backlash, as Aric Almirola has not performed well enough to deserve a shot a the title this year (I know, this might appear to contradict my previous statement). 629. The Crimson King posted: 07.23.2014 - 11:46 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) I disagree that Gordon and Jr won't win anymore races this year. I don't think guys like Johnson and Brad are done winning, but I don't see them hogging 8-10 wins each, which is what it would take to keep them out of victory lane for the rest of the year if you ask me. Kenseth, Stewart, Kahne, etc. are WAY too inconsistent to take away wins from Gordon/Jr. I have Gordon with 3 wins and Jr with 4 by the end of the year, personally. I think Gordon sweeps Kansas and wins Richmond. I think Jr wins the fall Martinsville race (Despite never winning there he's really good at that track and I think he finally gets a win there) and maybe Atlanta. Now, I'm neither a fan of Gordon or Jr but if either of those drivers isn't in the final 4 at Homestead, I'm going to be pissed. Hell, I'm going to be angry if the guy that wins the title is anyone but one of those two guys. I don't normally root for Jr either, but he's run well enough this year that I wouldn't mind seeing him win the championship and I'd feel like he'd have earned it if he pulled it off this year. Of course, it'd also be great to see Gordon finally get his 5th. Either way, this system sucks and I seriously want the best drivers to be in contention at the end, but that likely won't be the case. 630. Zackary Shawn posted: 07.23.2014 - 11:52 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Nice job Jayski missing that H.G. Rosier died. Asshat has lost all respect for history and now intentionally ignores when the old guys die." Jeez...I'd hate to work for you. Make one simple mistake or overlook something and all of sudden I would be an asshat who is intentionally ignoring things. In all honesty, don't you think you're overblowing the situation a little bit? "Kenseth, Stewart, Kahne, etc. are WAY too inconsistent to take away wins from Gordon/Jr." You don't need to be consistent to win though. You just need to have one good race, which all three of those drivers are capable of doing. It wouldn't surprise me if Stewart was fast at Indy this weekend. 631. racefangurl posted: 07.23.2014 - 11:52 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) If Aric Almirola wins it, NASCAR dies. If Jr. wins it, people will cry conspiracy. If someone like Jeff Gordon or Kevin Harvick, maybe even Joey Logano won it, people wouldn't cry as bad as the others about the Champ. If Joey's in the top-20 in points and no more than one driver in the 11-20 range ahead of him has as many or more wins, no one can call him a fluke. I want at least one driver on my top favorite list no one can call a fluke by the end of this year. 632. Zackary Shawn posted: 07.23.2014 - 11:58 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "If Aric Almirola wins it, NASCAR dies." A business that has a brand new $8 BILLION contract can't just die. 633. David posted: 07.23.2014 - 12:21 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "You don't need to be consistent to win though. You just need to have one good race, which all three of those drivers are capable of doing." I think what TCK meant was they (Stewart, Kahne, etc.) may win one or two races, but they won't be consistently in contention enough to take away wins from Gordon or Earnhardt. 634. The Crimson King posted: 07.23.2014 - 1:41 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) @633 Pretty much. I think 6 wins is the most anyone is going to have this year, and that's probably going to be Brad. I don't see someone getting a ridiculous win count to push Gordon/Jr winless for the rest of the year. Most of the top teams will likely end up with 3-4 wins each. Stewart and Kenseth will probably get a fuel mileage win somewhere, but I don't expect them to win based on speed. I say Kahne goes winless. @631 any other year, if Jr bs'd his way to a title I'd cry conspiracy. But he's legitimately one of the best teams this year, so I'd have no problems with it. 635. cjs3872 posted: 07.23.2014 - 5:54 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Guys, except for Marcos Ambrose or A.J. Allmendinger at Watkins Glen and maybe Matt Kenseth, Tony Stewart, or Kurt Busch sneaking in a win between now and the end of the season (Talladega, perhaps?), I can definitely see all the races the rest of the season won by five drivers, Jimmie Johnson, who I think gets all of HMS' wins from here on out, Kyle Busch, Kevin Harvick, and both of Penske's cars. There are 17 races remaining in 2014 as of this writing, and I think there's a very good chance that the five drivers I mentioned end up combining for as many as 15 of them, with Ambrose or Allmendinger taking Watkins Glen and a possible surprise winner at Talladega. Carl Edwards or Greg Biffle bringing Roush to victory lane at a slow-speed track or Talladega is also a possibility here. The big reason why I think Dale, Jr. doesn't win the rest of the season has to do with Chad Knaus turning off the information spicket that has been flowing between the 48 and 88 teams. But if Knaus sees Dale, Jr. as a threat to Johnson, that spicket will almost certainly be turned off and Dale, Jr. will struggle, at least compared to how he's been doing. The big reasons why Jeff Gordon won't win has to do with his own crew chief getting in the way with his continuously poor tactical decisions that costs Jeff track position that he's never able to fully make up, and Jeff's own conservative nature on restarts, which also does the same thing. Another thing that's been hurting Jeff is HMS' focus on getting Kasey Kahne into the chase. I'm not sure if anyone's noticed this, but Jeff has only one top five finish in the eight races since his win at Kansas, and that was a second at Sonoma, where the car is far less important. In other words, Jeff's 2014 performance may already be beginning to fade to some degree, and Dale, Jr.'s performances may eventually drift, as well. But there seems to be five drivers and teams that are performing above the rest of the field, and I think those five are in the process of asserting themselves as the ones among whom the championship, and almost al the races will be determined, those being the 2, 4, 18, 22, and 48 teams, and I think the only one among those five that will not be battling for the championship in the season finale is the 18, mainly because of who the driver is. And if those five combine to win up to 15 of the final 17 races, I would not be surprised at all. 636. Scott B posted: 07.23.2014 - 8:31 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "If Aric Almirola wins it, NASCAR dies." An underdog driver winning the championship the RPM #43 car would be an awful thing for NASCAR? It's taken half a season and a butt-kicking by Kyle Larson in the ROTY contest to get the media to (mostly) shut up about Austin Dillon... 637. 111111 posted: 07.24.2014 - 1:24 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) 636: Wasn't there some backlash when he won at Daytona by those nascar.com "casual" fans? But NASCAR wouldn't die lol. 638. We need more Onion posted: 07.24.2014 - 9:54 am Rate this comment: (1) (0) A little oddity here: In the last 10 years there are 5 drivers who have only one cup win. But they have 5 of the biggest events won. Casey Mears - 2007 Coca-Cola 600 Trevor Bayne - 2011 Daytona 500 Regan Smith - 2011 Southern 500 Paul Menard - 2011 Brickyard 400 Aric Almirola - 2014 Coke Zero 400 Interesting. 639. Destroyahirismix666 posted: 07.24.2014 - 10:30 am Rate this comment: (2) (0) Rant/Commentary I just recently thought up about the state of NASCAR and why we are loosing fans in droves: Everyone is here trying to say 'Nascar is messed up because we left it's roots'. I think it's more then that. It's not the drivers, or owners...it's the fact that NASCAR is going through a time of shock. There have been so many changes that it's driving people away. From 2003 to 2014, we have dropped Rockingham, dropped Darlington's 2nd date, we are looking at dropping a date at Pocono after already shortening the races, added a race at Kansas, shifted the schedules between Kansas and 'Dega in the chase a few years back just so they could finish a repave project, then flipped them back, and we've moved up the dates of NASCAR's section of speedweeks. That's just the schedule. In the same time, we've cone from the COY to the Winged COT, then we ditched the wing on the COT after a trio of high-flying crashes told us that the wing was helping to lift the cats in the air, then we went from that to the COT without a wing and with a solid nose, now we have the Gen6 car. And that's just the upper level Winston/Nextel/Sprint Cup series, we've also seen changes in the vehicles used by the Nationwide and Truck series. We've seen major sponsor changes for defining races and titles. Winston Cup is now Sprint Cup, Busch series is now Nationwide, Craftsman Truck is now CampingWorld Truck (I will always call it Craftsman Truck, so sue me. At least that name has some sort of semblance to the tenacity those drivers have displayed). The Busch Clash/Bud Shootout is now 'Sprint Unlimited'...a name that doesn't even remotely fit the set up. The Duels have become the Bud Duels, Darlington lost 'Southern 500' from it's title only to get it back about 5 years later, Indy has lost it's 'Brickyard' title, and that's just the tip of the iceberg. Then we have the mess that is the points. We've gone from the Latford system to the Chase, to the Chase with 12 drivers, to the Chase with 12 drivers and a pair of wildcards, To the Chase that was heavily tampered with two years in a row, and now to the 16-driver win-and-in Chase. All of these changes have happened in about 12 years. That is WAYYYYY to much change for that short amount of time. Last time there was a change that large would probably be between the late 60's and early 70's with tracks on the schedule changing like a revolving door and a shift in the points system, along with major design changes in the cars between '65 and '75. Contrary to what the nostalgic fans say, that was not a very helpful period in the sport either, it bit them in the ass a bit (It allowed only dominate teams to have a chance at anything. Mainly Richard Pety's team, Wood Bros for the first part of that era, and Junior Johnson in the second. Bobby Isaac's championship was won due to Petty's Darlington crash, and Yarbrough lost to Parsons due to an err with that points system similar in nature to 1996 and 1985). However, they did eventually find a point to stay the same with, and the schedule stayed roughly the same from '72 until '83 (The exceptions being the loss of Ontario and Riverside flipping with Daytona 500), then again from '83 until '96 (Exceptions being the loss of Riverside and Wilksboro, addition of the Glen, Indy, and Infenion). As much as I despise this new championship system, and schedule, both for selfish personal reasons that have little to do with the 'roots' of the sport, NASCAR needs to stop changing so rapidly so it can have a chance to stay the same for a while, keep itself the same so we have new traditions we can latch onto and enjoy. There were alot of traditions that could have been started in the last 10 years that I can think of, but because of so many changes, they've been lost in history. (Darlington in the Chase under the lights was f*cking brilliant, Kansas known as a 'Banquet' 400 to represent a feast-or-famine mentality, having the short-track races at Martinsville and Bristol being side-by-side for more beat'n and bang'n, and that's just the tip of the iceburg again) NASCAR, if your listening, which I doubt you are, STOP with all the changes 640. cjs3872 posted: 07.24.2014 - 1:41 pm Rate this comment: (2) (0) And guess what, D-666? All those changes from 2003-'14 have occurred since Brian France became the top guy in NASCAR. Now, it must also be pointed out that the Southern 500 has never truly gone away, though the name did for four years. It's just run at a different time of the year. I believe that NASCAR actually stumbled onto something in 2004 when it was the next-to-last race of the season that year, and I have no idea why they didn't keep it there. Instead of having the Southern 500 and finale in Homestead the final two races, as was the case in 2004, they go from coast-to-coast in the final week of the season, and run two of the easiest races (Phoenix and Homestead) as the final two, instead of a race that is as difficult as it gets in the Southern 500, which tests every part of a team to the limit, thus giving a full examination of who's where and, to paraphrase former USGA president Sandy Tatum, identifying the best teams when it comes to winning the championship. They should return the Southern 500 to it's 2004 date as the next-to-last race, which also would dramatically cut the travel for the last race of the season, making that part of it much easier on all the teams. They could run Texas and Phoenix as races seven and eight of the Chase, since they're relatively close to each other, and then run Darlington and Homestead as the last two to determine the champion, and to a relative degree, cut the travel costs. And @638, there have certainly been a rash of first-time winners in NASCAR's biggest events over the last decade. Aside from the five you mentioned (Casey Mears, Trevor Bayne, Regan Smith, Paul Menard, and most recently Aric Almirola), David Ragan, David Reutimann, and Brad Keselowski also scored their maiden trips to victory lane in one of NASCAR's biggest events since 2007. 641. cjs3872 posted: 07.24.2014 - 2:15 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) By the way, I know that the entry list for the Brickyard 400 (and that's what I'll always refer to it as) has been mentioned in an earlier post, in terms of the non-regulars attempting to make it, and I must say that the list of drivers not running the Cup Series that are trying to make this race is exactly what I've been talking about when it comes putting high-profile drivers from other series, either other NASCAR series or drivers from other forms of racing in extra cars to try to make one of the bigger races, something that used to be seen all the time. For instance, we have 2000 NASCAR and Brickyard 400 champion Bobby Labonte entered in a third Tommy Baldwin Racing car, and based on his status as a past Cup champion, Bobby has a possible champion's provisional, as well as a guaranteed starting spot if qualifying is washed out, at his disposal (all NASCAR champions are guaranteed a starting spot if qualifying is washed out). In addition, we have Penske entering an extra car for Juan Montoya. I know Montoya has seven full years of Cup experience with Ganassi, but isn't this the exact reason why IndyCar has always had the Brickyard 400 weekend as an off weekend, going all the way back to when the race was first run? (Remember that Danny Sullivan, then an active IndyCar driver and the 1988 CART champion, drove in the first Brickyard 400 in 1994, because it was an off-weekend in the CART series.) Frankly, I'd like to see Ganassi do the same thing for someone like Scott Dixon. And although I don't think he has a chance based on the team that's entered him (RAB Raing), it's also nice to see Matt Crafton on the entry list, offering the opportunity to have the reigning champions in all three of NASCAR's top series qualify for one of the biggest races of the year. This is the kind of thing that always set the crown jewel races apart from the rest, especially the Daytona 500, but that's become just another NASCAR race, in terms of who tries to run in that race. Some of the extras attempting to qualify for this Brickyard 400 this year are just the kind of guys that only try to qualify for the biggest races, and that's something that used to always separate the biggest races from the rest of the races. Anyone remember A.J. Foyt and Pancho Carter both running the 1985 Southern 500, instead of the IndyCar race running that same weekend? Or the IndyCar and sports car drivers that always tried to qualify for the Daytona 500, a list too numerous to mention, or even Gordon Johncock running in the 1973 Winston 500, even after the track at Indy had opened for that year's running of the Indianapolis 500, which Johncock was to win? That's what these big races need. Who wouldn't want to see Ryan Hunter-Reay, Helio Castroneves, Scott Dixon, or Tony Kanaan in the Daytona 500 or the Brickyard 400, especially if they're in good cars. Those would be some great additions to the NASCAR regulars on the starting grid. 642. cjs3872 posted: 07.24.2014 - 3:44 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) I just read on Jayski that Penske may be about to dip into the world of Australian SuperCar racing, and may be about to do so with Marcos Ambrose returning home. What the story says that Penske may be about to close in on a deal with Dick Johnson to have Ambrose return to Australia as part of a Johnson-Penske team. Last year, Tim Cindric, who basically runs things at Team Penske's IndyCar and NASCAR teams, went to the Bathurst 1000, which is Australia's version of the Indianapolis 500 or Daytona 500, last year, and that apparently piqued Penske's interest in the Australian series. If this ends up being true, it certainly would be a loss, both for NASCAR and for Richard Petty Motorsports, who would then need to find a replacement for Ambrose in their #9 car for 2015. Certainly, Aric Almirola's win in the Firecracker 400 figures to give them a boost in terms of trying to find a suitable replacement for Ambrose, but it is something to wonder about, with Ambrose closer to leaving RPM than most people thought he was. Now I've criticized his performance in that car on the oval tracks, but his talent on the road courses is indisputable and makes RPM's #9 car one of the favorites every time out on a road course. I also wonder if this is another signal of a reversing trend, that of drivers from other series returning to their roots. A few years ago, drivers such as Ambrose, Juan Montoya, Dario Franchitti, A.J. Allmendinger, and Sam Hornish, Jr. all left their roots and tried NASCAR. If this is true, that means that Ambrose, Montoya, and Franchitti (who has since retired from racing) will all have returned to the forms of the sport where they became champions. It's also notable that all of the foreign-born drivers on that list have left NASCAR, while the Americans on that list have all stayed in NASCAR, though Allmendinger did give IndyCar racing a shot last year in the car Montoya currently drives when he didn't have a full-time NASCAR ride. 643. murb posted: 07.24.2014 - 5:23 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) I hope the Penske/Ambrose V8 SuperCar thing is true. I think Ambrose is a great guy personally, but I feel like he is pretty much just wasting a good ride in Cup. He hasn't improved at all on the ovals in the last few years, and he still tends to overdrive his car and tear stuff up. Aric Almirola is showing that these RPM cars have top 15 quality speed, so I think putting a better driver in the 9 car will only improve that organization even more. Earlier this year I was lobbying for Alex Bowman and Landon Cassill to get the 9 car, and while I would still love to see one of those guys get it, I actually think another good (and more realistic) choice would be Sam Hornish. He's done a great job as a super-sub type driver in Cup the past couple of years (for Penske's #22 in 2012 and for Denny at California this year), and he's also been outstanding in NNS (should have won the title last year, and has been great this year in a part-time role with JGR). So I think he has definitely proven that he's ready for another shot at Cup. Judging from what Almirola is doing in the 43, I think Sam could easily be a fringe Chase driver in the 9 car. So I hope he gets some consideration for it, should Ambrose go back to Australia. Hornish and Almirola would be a nice duo for RPM to build around, I think. 644. cjs3872 posted: 07.24.2014 - 6:21 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) I'm not sure I agree with you on Hornish, murb. Remember that Hornish subbed for A.J. Allmendinger, and could only get Penske's #22 car to a certain level, in terms of performance, even though he was much better at finishing races when he subbed for Allmendinger. If Petty's looking for a driver to simply finish races, then Hornish might be the guy, but if he's looking for someone that might be able to push the car to the front, then Hornish is not the guy. I also think that the Wood Brothers might also figure into this somehow, and I think that Hornish would be a better fit for them for the reasons I mentioned. Alex Bowman's a question mark, though I like his potential, but I'm not entirely sure that Landon Cassill's best chances at getting a quality ride haven't already come and gone. Others I think that could capably fill that seat include Martin Truex, Jr., who has to be unhappy with things at Furniture Row Racing. Someone like Casey Mears could also come into play, though his potential is no better than Hornish's at this point. He may even go with someone like Cole Whitt, which would be a somewhat unorthodox choice. I think Petty's options are limited, because there aren't that many second or third-tier drivers on the market this year that would be willing to hop in a good car. He may end up hiring someone completely off the radar that nobody's even mentioning, though I have no idea whatsoever who that might be. But not only has Marcos Ambrose not improved on the ovals in the last year or two, he's actually regressed, and regressed badly. Two or three years ago, he seemed like a legitimate threat to win on an oval, but now a top 15-20 finish seems like a victory for that team on an oval track, except for Bristol and Martinsville, where he's actually had some good runs. 645. murb posted: 07.24.2014 - 7:55 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Truex wouldn't be a bad pick either for the #9 if he does end up leaving Furniture Row. And I don't know if it would happen, but it would also be cool to see Allmendinger get a second shot at RPM should he leave JTG (which I think he should do as soon as possible). I just think Hornish and his personality fit the mold for RPM. He and Almirola seem like they would be a good team together, and like I said, I think those two could push RPM forward a bit. Aric would probably still be the number one driver since he's younger and has more potential, but I feel like Hornish would be a nice veteran compliment to him. I don't think Hornish would be a prolific winner or anything in that car (though I could see him picking up one or two), but like I said, I do think he could be a consistent part of that sort of fringe Chase group we see every year (currently occupied by Newman/Menard/Vickers). It would be a solid hire. And as for the Wood Brothers, if I had to guess, they'll probably just repeat what they did with Trevor Bayne and just have another young driver run part time. Ford has quite a few young drivers in the pipeline (most notably Chris Buescher and Ryan Blaney), so they could either go that route, or they could give another younger driver from a different team (maybe James Buescher?) a shot. It seems like they've got a lot of options though. 646. Eric posted: 07.24.2014 - 8:03 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I think Richard Petty would consider Landon Cassill based on what he did in the Nationwide series this year with an underfunded team, but picking him would another story. I think Regan Smith and Martin Truex Jr are the favorites for the ride. If Truex does leave Furniture Row Racing, I think Furniture Row Racing will be looking Landon Cassill, Cole Whitt, or Alex Bowman. I didn't mention Elliott Sadler because I think cup teams saw what he did with MWR last year in the 55 car. What Sadler did the 55 car at the fall Martinsville last year matter of fact proved my point to CJS3872 would have been a worse choice to sub for Denny Hamlin at Martinsville for the spring race instead of Mark Martin. Even after the Martinsville race Sadler wasn't impressive. I also mentioned young drivers for Furniture Row Racing that are in cup because the young drivers in the Nationwide Series or the truck series aren't ready for cup yet. 647. Canadianfan posted: 07.25.2014 - 8:23 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) I hate to say it guys but I could really see Dakoda Armstrong being brought up to fill Ambrose's shoes and even though he is certainly not ready and not very good either. He has that Winfield sponsorship and Money Talks. 648. Sean posted: 07.25.2014 - 3:56 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) "And guess what, D-666? All those changes from 2003-'14 have occurred since Brian France became the top guy in NASCAR." I read a fairly convincing argument elsewhere that the gimmicks were added not to try to compete with the NFL but to maintain interest in NASCAR after the loss of Winston as title sponsor. Tobacco sponsorship had a dominant place in almost all forms of racing, and no series was really able to adapt to losing it. The old CART fans whine about how the current IndyCars are spec but IndyCar cannot afford cars that aren't, largely because sponsors like Marlboro, KOOL, Player's, etc... poured many millions into the series. From my understanding, Winston poured so much money into NASCAR that it kept the amount of sponsorship money that teams needed relatively low before it skyrocketed after their departure (Nextel didn't fund NASCAR to anything near the same degree). Marlboro sponsored the McLaren and Ferrari F1 teams. F1 and NASCAR managed to survive thanks to their massive TV deals, while most other series that had tobacco sponsorships are now hurting relative to their prime (IMSA GT when it was sponsored by Camel was much stronger than the USCC is, the NHRA was stronger than it is today, etc...) The tobacco boom was an inflationary bubble to begin with because cigarette companies were generally not allowed to sponsor things elsewhere and when it was banned, nobody knew how to respond to it. Brian France added gimmicks. One can say Bernie Ecclestone also added gimmicks. Both sides of the IndyCar split withered (when as late as 2001 CART and IRL both had full fields that were larger than IndyCar's field today). And now racing and cars generally aren't considered hip, so I think racing in general is going small-time, but it was fun while it lasted. (Note: I certainly do NOT think any of the major league racing series are dying...but I also don't think any of them will be booming or hot like in the '90s either). "(Remember that Danny Sullivan, then an active IndyCar driver and the 1988 CART champion, drove in the first Brickyard 400 in 1994, because it was an off-weekend in the CART series.)" Actually, Sullivan took a sabbatical from CART that year and was an announcer for ABC (both CART and NASCAR). He attempted to qualify for several other Cup races that year but only qualified for the Brickyard. 649. cjs3872 posted: 07.25.2014 - 9:53 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I thought Sullivan ran in IndyCars some in 1994, Sean. I know he didn't run the Indianapolis 500 because he was on that broadcast (Emerson Filltipaldi's race-deciding crash took place right beneath his commentating position in turn four). But you're incorrect about one thing. Sullivan did not do any NASCAR races as a commentator in 1994. The only NASCAR race on which he was a commentator was the 1996 Brickyard 400, when he commentated from the position Bobby Unser did commentary from between 1994-'97. One of the things he did in that broadcast (the '96 Brickyard 400) was harken back to when they had the apron when NASCAR threatened to penalize drivers for running in the grass, which was a big problem that day, because he remembered when USAC threatened to, and actually did penalize at least one driver (Mario Andretti in 1991) one lap for running on the apron. But that was the only NASCAR race he ever commentated on. 650. An Aussie Commentator posted: 07.25.2014 - 11:16 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I think the team that has regressed the most is Circle Sport racing (#33). Circle Sport has plummeted from a low 30s car to a backmarker of backmarkers. 651. The Crimson King posted: 07.26.2014 - 12:50 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) Usually the guy that wins this race goes on to win the championship. I think that's a good enough reason why this race is so special. Do you think that'll happen again this year? 652. Nascar Lead Lap Points posted: 07.20.2016 - 3:30 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Without the chase, Morgan Shepherd taking out Logano would of costing him the title. If he would of finished 2nd and got 43 points. He would of beat Gordon by 2 points at Homestead 653. Rich posted: 12.06.2020 - 4:46 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Adam Alexander, Wally Dallenbach and Kyle Petty were the commentators. Chris Neville, Matt Yocum, Marty Snider and Ralph Sheheen were the pit road reporters. Larry McReynolds was the in-race analyst. Lindsay Czarniak was the studio host. 654. Rich posted: 12.08.2020 - 9:51 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Adam Alexander, Wally Dallenbach and Kyle Petty were the commentators. Matt Yocum, Marty Snider, Ralph Sheheen and Chris Neville were the pit road reporters. Larry McReynolds was the in-race analyst. Lindsay Czarniak was the studio host. 655. TeamDCRfan posted: 01.03.2021 - 1:20 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I could be wrong, but if I remember right, Joe Nemechek was originally listed in the 87 but for some reason Timmy took his place. 656. Anonymous posted: 03.03.2021 - 10:50 am Rate this comment: (1) (0) Logano getting wiped out from second by Morgan Shepherd while 14 laps down and the last car running still has to be one of the most boneheaded lapped car moves in recent memory ------------------------------------------------------------------------ *Post a comment:* Your comment may not appear immediately - all comments must be approved by the moderator. Name: Comment: