|| *Comments on the 2015 Quicken Loans 400:* First Page | Previous Page | Next Page | Last Page | View All On One Page View the most recent comment | Post a comment <#post> 1. KurtBusch41Fan posted: 06.12.2015 - 5:58 pm Rate this comment: (25) (30) Career best qualifying run (So far) For Ryan Blaney, he's had great speed but his engines keep letting go on him. 2. KurtBusch41Fan posted: 06.12.2015 - 5:58 pm Rate this comment: (5) (1) Also LOL at the fact that Ryan Blaney has better odds of winning than Austin Dillon, not that its not true. it's just plain funny 3. Smiff_2 posted: 06.12.2015 - 6:02 pm Rate this comment: (3) (0) I'm utterly BAFFLED that Penske won't step up and personally fund a 3rd Cup team for Blaney. The guy's a f***ing BILLIONAIRE! lol. He has no *good* reason to be "farming" Blaney out to the Wood Brothers. 4. BMan0213 posted: 06.12.2015 - 6:11 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) "I'm utterly BAFFLED that Penske won't step up and personally fund a 3rd Cup team for Blaney. The guy's a f***ing BILLIONAIRE! lol. He has no *good* reason to be "farming" Blaney out to the Wood Brothers." Just having a lot of money to throw at a team doesn't mean it will be good just look at Red Bull Racing. Its probably a lot easier to farm Ryan out to a team that already has something in place rather than throw him in a new start up team. Penske will put him in a 3rd car at some point, just give him some time so he doesn't mess it up like he did last time he went to three cars. 5. Smiff_2 posted: 06.12.2015 - 6:14 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Yeah, but that was a start-up team. Penske, on the other hand, has all of the foundation needed to expand *without* usurping the resources of his other teams (or going through brand-new-team issues like Red Bull) Again, there's no real *good* excuse for it. It could very well work perfectly. Case in point: Gene Haas and Kurt Busch. 6. Sarf52 posted: 06.12.2015 - 6:23 pm Rate this comment: (3) (0) Hilarious that had qualifying been rained out, Blaney would've gone home and Gaughan would've raced. 7. BMan0213 posted: 06.12.2015 - 6:29 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) "Case in point: Gene Haas and Kurt Busch." Going off this year yes, but if you look at what he did last year he did struggle a bit. Yeah he won a race and made the chase but he also had 5 less top 5's and top 10's than he did the year before in the 78 car. With Ryan being a rookie I don't know if he would be able to put up the same numbers that Kurt did. I guess you could switch around the teams a bit and make Brad or Joey work through the growing pains of a new team but that could still have negative effects. I the end, I guess I just still question Penske going to three cars after the last time they tried it and it didn't work out. 8. someone posted: 06.12.2015 - 6:32 pm Rate this comment: (4) (0) I just hope Blaney doesn't have yet another engine related DNF. He runs top 15 every race he's in, only to have his engine quit on him it seems. 9. KurtBusch41Fan posted: 06.12.2015 - 6:45 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Money is a big part, but also having the right people is another huge part. Knost and Busch weren't a great combination, Gibson and Busch are a winning one. So you can have all the money in the world. But if you don't have the right people behind you money doesn't mean crap. 10. Smiff_2 posted: 06.12.2015 - 6:51 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Oh, no argument there. You gotta have the right people. And Bman, if Penske would have a much stronger roster between Kez, Logano, and Blaney. That seems much more potent than Ku. Busch/Newman/Hornish orrrr Old Rusty, Newman, Gaughan/Kvapil.....I think Blaney's raw talent would help him thrive much more than Hornish (or any of the other 3rd team drivers did). 11. MAR posted: 06.12.2015 - 7:07 pm Rate this comment: (4) (0) So is anybody goin to reconize Trevor Bayne out qualified all his teammates. 12. BMan0213 posted: 06.12.2015 - 7:08 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Oh I agree that Kez Logano and Blaney would be way better combination than the other ones. I'm not worried about the driver, I'm worried about the organisation as a whole. Just look at Penske's stats from 03 to 04 and 07 to 08 which were both times they went from 2 to 3 cars. There seems to have been a drop in performance organisation wide not just poor performance in the new team. I feel this is why Penske is gonna wait as long as he can to put Ryan in the 3rd car. He doesn't want what happened the first two times to happen again. 13. Cooper posted: 06.12.2015 - 7:14 pm Rate this comment: (2) (0) Ryan Blaney is such a beast. Gonna be like his Dad though. Great talent but gets screwed over in every way possible. Like I've said before. Ryan Blaney is better than Chase Elliott. 14. racefangurl posted: 06.12.2015 - 8:18 pm Rate this comment: (2) (0) Trevor Bayne qualified in the top-20 and his teammates, especially Ricky didn't. Ricky didn't even make the second round and his teammates did. 15. Christian posted: 06.12.2015 - 8:39 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) @5 He also had the money to run a 4th car full time in Indycar this year. 16. The Long Shot posted: 06.12.2015 - 9:25 pm Rate this comment: (5) (0) Oh wow, Trevor Bayne qualified in the top 20. That totally makes up for the awful god-damn season he's had. 17. Schroeder51 posted: 06.12.2015 - 9:33 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) While it is nice to see Bayne actually have a decent qualifying run, remember that this is just one qualifying sessions. One decent qualifying run does not necessarily mean his season is about to dramatically turn around. 18. racefangurl posted: 06.12.2015 - 9:43 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) It may tell of things to come, but we have to wait and see. But it is good that it happened. I know T-Bayne has finished as high as 15th at this track. 19. joey2448 posted: 06.12.2015 - 9:44 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) No matter what happens on Sunday (or whatever day this race is run, rain is threatening), I'm happy to see Blaney qualify up front. He is a real talent, more so than Cowboy Hat, who I expect to see drop down the running order in this race, like he did at Pocono. Harvick seems to be the prohibitive favorite, as per usual. That team is ridiculously fast almost everywhere. 20. racefangurl posted: 06.12.2015 - 10:06 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Harvick=Freaky Fast, but don't count out Hendrick (Kasey Kahne has the pole and some of the others are up there or perhaps even the Penske drivers. This is a Ford track, historically and Penske has all its drivers in or near the top-10. Hey, I wouldn't even write of the Gibbs drivers (same reason as Penske) or Martin Truex, Jr. just yet because they're up there,too. The usual suspects all have a shot. 21. Joe Fan #8 posted: 06.13.2015 - 12:36 am Rate this comment: (1) (0) Only second time Bayne has made second round of qualifying. Biffle and Stenhouse have made it multiple times. I guess its a start! lol And good qualifying run for Austin. Has been slowly showing signs of improvement. Been in a bit of sophomore slump. Would be great to get a top 15 finish here. 22. Driver X posted: 06.13.2015 - 1:40 am Rate this comment: (1) (0) Ever since this quaifying format began in 2014, the only pole winner that was an underdog was Brian Scott. This new format has led to the same guys being in the final 12 damn near every race. I don't even watch qualifying, and probably won't except for the restrictor plate and road course tracks. I wish we had the old format back, because it'd be nice to see some new faces qualifying up front, regardless of race result. Here are my ideas for how qualifying should be for next year: Tracks 1.5 mile and up: 1 lap single car qualifying. Less than 1.5 miles: 2 laps single car qualifying. Road courses: 1 lap single car qualifying. Fastest 38 get in on speed, 39-42 on provisional, and 43 for PC or provisional. I'd like to see NASCAR implement this, but it would make too much sense for TPTB. 23. Daniel posted: 06.13.2015 - 1:43 am Rate this comment: (3) (2) Go Gordon! 24. Joe Fan #8 posted: 06.13.2015 - 1:48 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) I know it's only qualifying, and means nothing, but first time after the MWR crew chief swap, and Ragan is 18th and Bowyer is 32nd in qualifying lol. Swap won't do any good honestly, or really hurt them. The team is just going downhill right now. Though the 18th is good for MWR at a 1.5 track... BTW, Ragan is my main Cup driver now since Joe doesn't really race Cup much anymore. 25. Schroeder51 posted: 06.13.2015 - 1:50 am Rate this comment: (4) (1) ^...and he's back. There's something that's been missing from these comments sections for a while now...our friend Daniel whose vocabulary apparently consists of nothing more than the words "Go Gordon!" I THOUGHT it felt something was missing around here throughout this season... 26. KurtBusch41Fan posted: 06.13.2015 - 3:16 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) i wanna correct my stat from earlier, its ryan blaney's best NON-RESTRICTOR PLATE qualifying effort 27. joey2448 posted: 06.13.2015 - 5:20 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "This new format has led to the same guys being in the final 12 damn near every race. I don't even watch qualifying, and probably won't except for the restrictor plate and road course tracks. I wish we had the old format back, because it'd be nice to see some new faces qualifying up front, regardless of race result." You think the results will change if they go back to single-car qual runs? Just because there are multiple cars on the track at one time in qualifying doesn't mean the same guys won't suddenly be fast. 28. dennyfan11 posted: 06.13.2015 - 9:18 am Rate this comment: (1) (1) Apparently, people are saying that Hinch5 has left. Where are they getting this from? 29. Anonymous posted: 06.13.2015 - 9:25 am Rate this comment: (9) (2) "Hinch5", "Alex" or whatever else he calls himself from time to time went berserk when somebody challenged him about the date of birth of some driver from decades ago. 30. RaceFanX posted: 06.13.2015 - 9:41 am Rate this comment: (1) (2) I really hope this controversy works out. Hinch was doing stats for both IMSA and the World Sportscar Championship that would be posted here. 31. dennyfan11 posted: 06.13.2015 - 9:59 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) What comments section was it on? 32. Driver X posted: 06.13.2015 - 10:11 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "You think the results will change if they go back to single-car qual runs? Just because there are multiple cars on the track at one time in qualifying doesn't mean the same guys won't suddenly be fast." I think that the results have a better chance of change, in fact they MAY make qualifying more exciting and less gimmicky. 2008 underdog pole winners: Travis Kvapil, David Reutimann, Elliott Sadler, Patrick Carpentier, Brian Vickers (for the 2nd year Red Bull Racing) 2009 underdog pole winners: Only eight different drivers (This was one of the years that the old rules were an anomaly.) 2012 underdog pole winners: AJ Allmendinger, Marcos Ambrose, Casey Mears 2013 underdog pole winners: Danica Patrick, Marcos Ambrose, Aric Almirola, Ricky Stenhouse Jr. among others. I will come up with more later. 33. Anonymous posted: 06.13.2015 - 10:29 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) I forget what race or driver it was posted under, dennyfan11 but I saw it on the front page. It was a profanity filled tirade and I can't find it now so it was probably removed. 34. CNF posted: 06.13.2015 - 11:00 am Rate this comment: (9) (2) Overreact much? He said "The Third Turn" is a better stats site and he'll send his stats there. 35. epzik8 posted: 06.13.2015 - 11:08 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Xfinity qualifying is getting crazy as well. 36. RaceFanX posted: 06.13.2015 - 12:15 pm Rate this comment: (2) (0) That's a shame. R-R seems a better site for road racing stats then the stock car focused Third Turn. However both are good sites. "This is why the fandom can't have nice things" sadly seems to be in effect. Hopefully these problems can be worked out. 37. Hinch5 posted: 06.13.2015 - 1:39 pm Rate this comment: (3) (11) No, if this goes through. This was the last in the line of pathetic stuff I had seen over the years from both this site and its users. It goes beyond births of drivers... it goes to the very core of sports. As I have gotten older, I have seen less and less I like in the world of sports. They seem fleeting, meaningless. It goes to the very core of my existence: research, research of such a high quality that I work alongside storm forecasters and that NASCAR wanted to create an exclusive historian position just for me, and then to have people tell I don't know what I am doing as they sit there and use unofficial resources that are blatantly incorrect and say that my use of official government records is wrong was just added insult. I have (had) been a part of this website for 11 years... before there were comments. I used to sit for hours and absorb the information. I literally know all there is to know about NASCAR, F1, WSCC, USAC, IndyCar, the drivers, their personalities, and even some neat stuff about the cars. I can't abandon that stuff. But I met other people, people I now call my friends, who know more about racing than every commenter on this entire website combined. And they taught me, from their wisdom, what racing was all about. What we see today is not the racing they talk about... it's not a sport compared to them. I can talk eye-to-eye to them; I call them a hero for being good for doing something I think is fun for a living, and they call me a hero for caring about them. I love racing. It is the very core of my existence. I love research. And I must combine in the way that best serves to make my life happy. These comment boards do not provide that happiness. This is the place for the modern NASCAR, and when people share the views of the old NASCAR, they are called "stupid," "idiot," and "conspiracy theorist." I have news for you, every NASCAR driver who retired before 1980 shares that same "conspiracy theory." In the racing community, I can sit down with Dick Passwater for hours and just BS the time away talking about everything. There are no worries about the future, for the present is all that matters: sharing a love for the sound, the smells. I love racing, and this isn't the place to love racing. Everyone's unique, and I love uniqueness, but I am not going to sit around a place where uniqueness is a crime. I have seen many good posters come and go, the people who on a good day were smart, witty, and fun to debate with, and every single person like that has been chased from here by the "MStall41", "Walter White," and "racefangurl"s of this site. I don't know about you, but I'm going to sit, spew my thoughts, and have the greatest drivers ever give me a pat on the back and say "You took the words right out of my mouth." Maybe someday I will return with results to share with this website, but to be a part of the community in anyway I cannot be. Sit back, enjoy the racing, and be yourselves, because that is the only way you'll be happy. Yours, Alex (Hinch5) 38. Biscuits In A Red Bull posted: 06.13.2015 - 1:52 pm Rate this comment: (3) (3) That's a nice post Alex. I doubt anyone truly knows everything about those series' though, although you're much more knowledgeable than the average poster on this site, and I'm not going to argue with you, I've done that a few too many times. And yes, I do wish certain posters would shut up. 39. Anonymous posted: 06.13.2015 - 2:52 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) I don't like the comparison of racefangurl to Walter White and MStall41. Walter White is kind of mean and MStall41 is inclined to bash NASCAR fans or whatever. However, racefangurl can make a decent point sometimes, according to RichardHead (see Richard's comment on the Pocono Cup boards), so I think dennyfan11 would be a better one to compare to the others. Someone called dennyfan11 a "dummy". 40. driver1 posted: 06.13.2015 - 2:57 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I feel we should make more use of the message board on this site (although it hasn't been posted on in years). All of this discussion has nothing to do with the Quicken Loans 400. Years from now, someone reading the comments for this race won't care about this bickering. A forum with usernames will eliminate people posting as "anonymous" and will declutter the comments on race pages. Do we really need 700 comments for some races? 41. someone posted: 06.13.2015 - 3:42 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) ^^ isn't the message bored closed, hence why it hasn't been used? And post 39: I've never called anyone on this site a dummy! 42. murb posted: 06.13.2015 - 4:00 pm Rate this comment: (3) (0) I've honestly been losing the desire to post on here as well as of late. I love this site, and the Webmaster has done and continues to do an amazing job with everything, but there just doesn't seem to be nearly the amount of intelligent debates and great insight that we once had on here. It just seems like now everyone just sensationalizes everything and there's not even an attempt to have any stimulating conversation. Not to mention that some of my favorite posters have either virtually left the site altogether (Paul, DSFF, CJS) or rarely post anymore (David, Sean, Long Shot). There's still great people here, but I just find myself losing the passion I once had for this place more and more every week. I'll still stick around and comment during some of the races, but lately, I've come to the conclusion that I unfortunately just don't see us ever getting back to our "prime", if you will, when we were having great, intense, but respectful debates most weeks. 43. MarkMartinFan posted: 06.13.2015 - 4:06 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) I agree that this place is full of nonsense now. I usually don't have much to say on here. It's not really worth it to have an intelligent conversation on here anymore without some troll getting digs in on what you have to say. 44. Voice of Reason posted: 06.13.2015 - 4:17 pm Rate this comment: (19) (14) Good riddance Alex, you will not be missed. Your overinflated ego ("I know everything there is to know about racing") has been a blight on this forum and I am delighted to see you go. Today is a good day. 45. Anonymous posted: 06.13.2015 - 4:19 pm Rate this comment: (0) (8) " 44. Voice of Reason posted: 06.13.2015 - 4:17 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) Good riddance Alex, you will not be missed. Your overinflated ego ("I know everything there is to know about racing") has been a blight on this forum and I am delighted to see you go. Today is a good day. " Nice, new name 46. someone posted: 06.13.2015 - 4:33 pm Rate this comment: (5) (0) Wait cjs legitimately left this site? He was one of my favorite posters, and I liked reading most of his non Carl Edwards posts. 47. Walter White posted: 06.13.2015 - 5:24 pm Rate this comment: (3) (0) For all this about me being a "mean guy", it's funny to see how ignorant people really are about who I am. Which is ok because I don't have any intention of being nice or anything. I have my own views on the sport, I don't claim to know any more then anyone here does. I'm also pretty sure I have the second best grab on what teams are good/bad over time (which is my main statistical interest) behind Eric. 48. Schroeder51 posted: 06.13.2015 - 5:25 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Unfortunately I can sympathize with other people in saying that I honestly feel the posting quality on this site (at least, on the NASCAR races) has taken a dip over the past few years. I can remember when people could genuinely have intelligent, respectful conversations with each other without resulting to name calling, insults, and attacks on each others' intelligence. Nowadays I see so many hostile posts around this site (look at post #44-genuinely happy to see Hinch-a knowledgeable yet controversial member-leave and considers it a reason to celebrate...) that sometimes I honestly wonder "Why do I ever bother?" Why do I even bother, anyways? Well, I will always have a genuine passion for racing and there are many things I have learned over the years from scouring books and the Internet. I am nowhere near the most knowledgeable person when it comes to motorsports (my knowledge is primarily limited to NASCAR, IndyCar, and a bit of F1, though I've honestly never been much of an F1 fan), but if I have info I know not available on this site, I feel that I can help (I have helped fill in DNQs and cautions for some older races, and have found a few drivers' birth dates and hometowns) if I have that info. Plus, for as nasty as comments can get on this site at times, I would still say they haven't devolved to the point of being as ugly as NASCAR.com comments. Comments sections I've seen on that site are so obnoxious and painful to read that there is no chance in hell I will ever post there! I shall still stick around here as long as this site continues to hold my interest, but I myself do wonder at times if it's really worth it... 49. Racing Outcast1985 posted: 06.13.2015 - 5:27 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) This comment board has gone straight to hell 50. Walter White posted: 06.13.2015 - 5:31 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) As long as I'm here, this site will be fine. I actually feel a little bad about going as far as I did on RaceFanGurl and Hinch. I'm pretty sure my actions played a role in Hinch leaving, and that was not my intention. I don't find his departure as this great thing. I can assure you that I will never leave though. 51. The Long Shot posted: 06.13.2015 - 5:32 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Good riddance Alex, you will not be missed. Your overinflated ego ("I know everything there is to know about racing") has been a blight on this forum and I am delighted to see you go. Today is a good day." You're going to have to specify which Alex you are talking about, because most here would agree that I also fit this description very well. 52. Hinch5 posted: 06.13.2015 - 5:38 pm Rate this comment: (0) (8) "As long as I'm here, this site will be fine. I actually feel a little bad about going as far as I did on RaceFanGurl and Hinch. I'm pretty sure my actions played a role in Hinch leaving, and that was not my intention. I don't find his departure as this great thing. I can assure you that I will never leave though. " Look, as long as I am here at the moment, you had nothing to do directly with it. It's not a one-person problem. Walter, some day you'll get bored and leave too; it happens to every user on every website (except EFR, where you have a core of 3-5 people who rig all the "Races" for their drivers and ban all users, like me, who call them out on it). "Good riddance Alex, you will not be missed. Your overinflated ego ("I know everything there is to know about racing") has been a blight on this forum and I am delighted to see you go. Today is a good day." This is why the Charlotte Observer wrote an article about me subtitled "All-Knowing Teenager." Hopefully, some day, there will be peace, but until then I am just going to contain myself to the historic races, sharing facts about races I pick up here and there. Just look at this conversation since BIARB's #38, and you will see plenty of reason not to be bother. 53. Walter White posted: 06.13.2015 - 5:43 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) Hinch, I am sorry for the record man. You really didn't deserve any of my BS. 54. The Long Shot posted: 06.13.2015 - 5:58 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) I first joined this community a little over two years ago, which is longer than most of our current posters have been here but still less than a number of others (Hinch, murb, Schroeder, Sean, David). I had just gotten back into racing after about a 2-year long drought where I barely watched anything. The community here was great. There was always some sort of stimulating conversation going on, whether it was in-depth technical debates, history discussion (cue cjs's obligatory 1973 Indy 500 mention), or just BS'ing on random things. You had DSFF, who everyone loved because of the enthusiasm and nostalgia he brought to the table with every single one of his posts. You had cjs, who was the most knowledgeable person on the site yet always maintained a cool head if you had a discussion with him. You had Paul, who was kind of a mix of the two. You had NicoRosbergFan (now known as Hinch), whose passion for the sport was exceeded by nobody and never shied away from being fiery with his opinions. You had Sean, who could type a mile a minute and was one of the best debaters this board has ever seen. You had murb and Schroeder, who were passionate as all hell but also were among the coolest heads here if things turned argumentative. You had David and I, the enthusiastic kids of the board that joked around a lot but (usually) knew where to draw the line. But things changed after a while, probably due to the awful season we were enduring. People started bickering, insults started being thrown. NRF went batshit crazy for about a month there, and even when he finally went back to normal, people would still troll him like crazy. People like Paul started leaving the site. Then, when the Chase rule changes were announced that winter, more people just up and left (including DSFF, though he did come back, albeit just to leave once more after the Tony Stewart mess). Even after what I think was a very enjoyable season, nobody really bothered to return. And so we're brought to the present day. I don't hate the new posters on here by any means. Some I think contribute far less than others, but I don't bear any ill will against them. What I'm disappointed about is the drop of post quality on this forum since I started. Whether it's due to lack of interest or a decrease in poster quality is debatable, but it's the main reason why I just haven't had the urge to comment as much recently (that and a schedule that seemingly gets busier by the week). And frankly, it's a damn shame. As cheesy and as sappy a statement as this may sound, this forum does hold a place in my heart. It was the first real community I was ever a part of. I only wish we could raise it back to its former glories. 55. DB1995 posted: 06.13.2015 - 6:03 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) I just realized Brad Keselowski hasn't finished top 5 in over 2 months. 56. The Long Shot posted: 06.13.2015 - 6:05 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "I feel we should make more use of the message board on this site (although it hasn't been posted on in years). All of this discussion has nothing to do with the Quicken Loans 400. Years from now, someone reading the comments for this race won't care about this bickering. A forum with usernames will eliminate people posting as "anonymous" and will declutter the comments on race pages. Do we really need 700 comments for some races?" The forum on this site is inactive and has been for some time now. I also know that the webmaster is not particularly in favor of starting a new one. If enough people were interested, I'd start a Racing-Reference forum myself, but only as long as it's affiliated with this site; I don't want to direct any attention away from what the webmaster is doing here. 57. Walter White posted: 06.13.2015 - 6:09 pm Rate this comment: (3) (0) I don't really think this is a bad community. My favorite poster has always been Eric because he dissects everything like a clinical surgeon. And his way of thinking from a statistical point is more like how I think, so I can relate to what he says more. I definitely don't believe I'm an idiot either. I'm just not a people person, and people never like me much either. I'll get karma for what I've done on here good and bad. I'm just tired of people acting like I'm this bad person when they know nothing about me. Yeah I've made my mistakes, but I'm human. I'm not a dumb person, I'm just not a great communicator. I get a little emotional. If I had been here for years and years, I'm sure I would be more respected. But that's how it is everywhere. Everyone hates the new guy. One way or another, I will leave my mark on here. 58. Hinch5 posted: 06.13.2015 - 6:22 pm Rate this comment: (0) (7) "I get a little emotional. If I had been here for years and years, I'm sure I would be more respected. But that's how it is everywhere. Everyone hates the new guy. " Dude, don't think about it. It was that way for me at first (I was here when Bronco was still a poster, the forums were active though I never used them, and G14 ran the fantasy leagues), and after some time you'll be part of the pack. Oh, yeah, and fun name :) I contacted Webmaster about the forums about 4 months ago (after the riven3d incident), and he told me it was too expensive and time-consuming to improve something that had no guarantee to work. And Alan, I am really sorry for that crap I pulled whatever day it was now. I got fed up with everything and took it out on you, but I still believe it's best for me to go a separate path for a while. Post-graduation life sucks especially when all your prof in the department tells you you're a shoo-in for grad school research money, and you get a lump of coal instead. There are new things to move on to in life, such as my growing research base, new things to play around, and new friends in life. "NRF went batshit crazy for about a month there, and even when he finally went back to normal, people would still troll him like crazy. " Get it right: they were trolling me before that and ever since. *smack on the back of the head* 59. Anonymous posted: 06.13.2015 - 6:40 pm Rate this comment: (6) (5) LOL. How many times is this particular poster going to claim to be quitting the site, only to come back and continue posting like nothing ever happened before people finally realize he's just crying for attention? 60. Chives5150 posted: 06.13.2015 - 6:48 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Look, as long as I am here at the moment, you had nothing to do directly with it. It's not a one-person problem. Walter, some day you'll get bored and leave too; it happens to every user on every website (except EFR, where you have a core of 3-5 people who rig all the "Races" for their drivers and ban all users, like me, who call them out on it)." You were on EFR? I had no idea! Maybe that, or I was too oblivious to notice. I haven't been on EFR in about 18 months, and I feel like the same thing that happened over there has started to happen over here. Many of the prime posters seem to have gotten tired and disinterested, and those things happen sometimes. The same thing happened to me, and I got tired of trying to keep up with every single NR2003 series and the egos that came with running a series. I still loved and enjoyed my time over there, but I kinda grew out of it. Every site and forum will have it's "comers and goers". 61. Hinch5 posted: 06.13.2015 - 7:28 pm Rate this comment: (1) (6) " 59. Anonymous posted: 06.13.2015 - 6:40 pm Rate this comment: (3) (2) LOL. How many times is this particular poster going to claim to be quitting the site, only to come back and continue posting like nothing ever happened before people finally realize he's just crying for attention? " Ah, yes, Anonymous and his thumbs bots that attack my posts with magically large amounts of thumbs downs and give posts contrary to mine magical amounts of thumbs up. What do you use? Proxies? Scripts? Bots? You complain, but you are so scared you must do so anonymously. In all decency, I am leaving and everyone deserves for me to leave on a positive note of understanding instead of one of anger. Good partings are better for the digestive tract, y'know? It's like leaving a job after a fight with the boss: when you first think about it, you want to just quit on the spot, but then you realize you need to share it with your co-workers and friends so that, further down the line, you'll say hi to each other in Wal-Mart. "You were on EFR? I had no idea! Maybe that, or I was too oblivious to notice. I haven't been on EFR in about 18 months, and I feel like the same thing that happened over there has started to happen over here. Many of the prime posters seem to have gotten tired and disinterested, and those things happen sometimes. The same thing happened to me, and I got tired of trying to keep up with every single NR2003 series and the egos that came with running a series. I still loved and enjoyed my time over there, but I kinda grew out of it. Every site and forum will have it's "comers and goers". " I was on it for 6 months ending this past January. Friends, applaud! The comedy is over! 62. Anonymous posted: 06.13.2015 - 7:33 pm Rate this comment: (7) (3) "There's no way my posts could be so unpopular as to command multiple thumbs down. It MUST be a plot against me." 63. Hinch5 posted: 06.13.2015 - 7:42 pm Rate this comment: (1) (5) "There's no way my posts could be so unpopular as to command multiple thumbs down. It MUST be a plot against me." I was hitting refresh knowing this would happen, and there were 5 thumbs downs added in less than 1 minute. Remember the bot that gave everyone ONE HUNDRED thumbs down and up in a matter of seconds? This was just an excuse to let everyone know that I fulfilled a promise I made to The Long Shot years ago. 64. RichardHead posted: 06.13.2015 - 7:44 pm Rate this comment: (0) (5) I feel for you Hinch. You are clearly highly intelligent and knowledgeable and don't want to be dragged down to the level of some of the ignorant, narrow minded, self centered people who post on here. The issue is that often you do by overreacting and getting really emotional about things. I think in arguments you write more with your heart than with your head, you know? That leads to some pretty insulting stuff. There are a lot of good posters still here. TLS and Schroeder I like a lot, they're actually sane, sensible human beings. Maybe if discussion boards could involve only a select few, then you'd be inclined to stay, Hinch! That way it would be enjoyable and you could have a good discussion without gettin monumentally pissed off with some users on here, stressing you out at what's clearly not the easiest point in your or anyone's life. That way, lots of the people who come on here to spam crap about nothing and start arguments can be left to mess around ruining someone else's life or maybe do something constructive in the REAL WORLD. I also like other guys. DSFF was awesome. I liked his posts. They seemed constructed and like he put thought into, which is unlike a lot of brain farts that a splashed across every comment board since qualifying results could be commented on here. And BIARB is a f*cking philosopher. Stop asking those questions and analysing the pointless man! I love it but for the love of god it's irrelevant on this website!!!! :p There are some guys I've missed out because I only look at the comment boards every so often, so feel free to be offended and argue against me. And as Hinch has pointed out, the thumbs down system. Can that just go? It's RUINED this site. Look at Danica Patrick's comments section and you'll see what I mean. It's spam. It's gimmicky. It brings as much anger and joy. It frankly shouldn't bring any emotion at all. It's a JOKE. That's just my thoughts on this, but since I can actually explain my points I feel I should post. If you can't justify and argument, you can't argue. So don't spam. Goodnight. 65. Hinch5 posted: 06.13.2015 - 7:54 pm Rate this comment: (1) (3) And since I promised this years ago, I am fulfilling this... this post will take a while to come through: https://musescore.com/user/2355066/scores/944836 https://musescore.com/user/2355066/scores/944821 66. An Aussie Commentator posted: 06.13.2015 - 7:56 pm Rate this comment: (2) (3) I've rarely posted in a long time. Hinch5 you will be a loss, I hope you come back soon. I haven't seen much intelligent discussion in a long time, that's why I don't post much (That and the awkward timing of most races means I can't comment on most of them without staying up till 4am). 67. Racing Outcast1985 posted: 06.13.2015 - 8:00 pm Rate this comment: (2) (7) If I were in charge of this comment board I would make sure that no one could post here under the Alias of Anonymous 68. RaceFanX posted: 06.13.2015 - 8:23 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I enjoy this site but I'll admit I don't like any of the opinion posts (a little discussion is cool. I like updates during the race.). I prefer the factual ones. Granted I feel like a relic because few are making posts like that now (me, FortiFord, Alex, etc.). I don't know what can done about that though. I like being a part of this site and I like contributing results to it (I'm doing a 2015 Le Mans result here very soon) but I will not I've seen more push back of late. There's too much vitriol around here of late. Hopefully we can clear the air soon. 69. BluesTravelerFan posted: 06.13.2015 - 8:32 pm Rate this comment: (4) (0) I have been on here since June 2013(although I have at most only been a semi-regular poster)and while I agree somewhat with Long Shots statement, for me the turning point was the the implementation of this total joke of a point system before last season. As I said when it was done,that was pretty much the end of me taking the championship seriously (as well as NASCAR on a general level somewhat). I didn't care for the chase as it was, but at least it was still semi-legitimate and was still something I could follow along with. As far as I'm concerned, there was no 2014 champion, and there won't be a legitimate champion anytime soon it seems. Ever since, I honestly have not really payed a lot of attention to the MAJORITY of the races run since then(not a lot in 2014, even less this year),because it's honestly hard for me to get into things when the only point is just to see what happens in each race individually ( which used to the best thing about the races but now is more or less the same uninteresting thing over and over),as well as having others stuff happening in my life/depression/not caring about racing in general like I used to. Even though I didn't really take part in it, I too miss the days when we had 1,000 comments in races and high interest and lots of great, intelligent discussion,whether it was from DSFF ( he was aggravating and overbearing, but he knows his racing, Cjs(dude is a savant) and the many others here. But I think the ridiculous decisions made by NASCAR have been the biggest factor in what has happened on here. It certainly was what done it for me. Ps I hope this post was legible, because I wrote it while attending a short track race on a smartphone and it took me literally 2 hours to write. 70. Spen posted: 06.13.2015 - 9:32 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) I've been a lurker/occasional poster on this comment board since the 2004 Daytona 500. I almost never posted in the early years, mainly because most of the "discussions" seemed to be DaleJrfan, biffle16 and Thomas calling each other stupid for liking different drivers. '07 was a better year, but we still had overly biased posters (myself especially comes to mind). But around '08, we really had an increase in posts that were thought-provoking, and more objective. So yes, we seem to be reverting a bit right now, but if there's one thing I've learned from 24 years of Internet usage, it would be that disscussions are cyclical. One day, we'll be back to intelligent posting. But no matter what, there will always be some drivel to wade through. In any event though, farewell to NRF (as I will always remember you as), and I hope that you'll be back whenever the inevitable improvement arrives. I'll still be here, whether I'm posting often or not. 71. Smiff_2 posted: 06.13.2015 - 9:37 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) I've been using the site for a full decade and have been commenting since 2009. I can vividly remember debating with the likes of Kit and Bronco once upon a time or shaking my head at Ben Lowe's wrestling/racing analogies. I've found myself in total agreement with something DSFF or Cooper or RCRandPenskeGuy or Murb said.... I've been "corrected" by CJS (naturally)...lol. I don't post on here often, but (and this is a tad hard to admit), I've read every single post since 2008. I probably check in on the comments 4 or 5 times a day, strictly out of habit (and a desire to feel not so alone as a fan). I've tried posting a little more lately simply because I live in a somewhat-rural Maine town where, like many other places around this country, true-blue NASCAR and racing fans are getting harder and harder to come by. I'm like a man on an island. But here...HERE....I used to always feel (and sometimes occasionally still do) surrounded by fellow fans who were as passionate about the sport as Me. Things have certainly changed, and not for the better. Those of you who are always civil, insightful, and entertaining...you know who you are (and you truly are appreciated). For the rest of you dingbats, bozos, toolbags, buzzkills and dingleberries....go crawl back under the rock(s) from whence you came. P.S.- racefangurl, I think we're all well aware that you are *also* 'crazyNASCARfan'. Don't even bother anymore....lol. 72. Racing Outcast1985 posted: 06.13.2015 - 10:08 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Spen you are the true elder statesman of the Racing Reference comment board 73. racefangurl posted: 06.13.2015 - 10:09 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Smiff, I'm a passionate fan. As long as I have access to the TV channel the race is on or the Internet, I follow it. Like if it's a cable channel, I go to RaceTrax. When the Quicken Loans 400 is on, I'll be on foxsports.com/nascar/racetrax, for example. Michigan has been a Ford track, so which Ford do you think has the best chance to win? 74. someone posted: 06.13.2015 - 10:17 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Interesting, all this talk about reminiscing of the good times on this site, and yet no mention that this is the two year anniversary of "the great HTML war" iirc. 75. Schroeder51 posted: 06.13.2015 - 10:22 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I've been around this site a long time as well; I first discovered this site in...'06, I think? I first made several VERY naive anonymous posts on old '90s NASCAR races (if you see some really naive anonymous posts dating back to '07, they're almost CERTAINLY mine...I was much younger and not as thoughtful when it came to making posts back then). I've actually been around this site long enough to remember people like biffle16 and others squabbling with each other over everything. I can remember that back then, Jeff Gordon was the most vilified driver on this site, and not Johnson! I posted several times over the next couple of years under various names (first as Zeppelin, then as Homer Simpson) but it wasn't until late 2010 or so (I think?) that I first started regularly posting under this name. So yeah, I've seen a lot happen on this site over the years...Of course, living in the deep South, there are still plenty of people quite fond of NASCAR, but not as many as there used to be, and honestly I don't know too many real life fans. So this site has been more or less my primary interaction with other NASCAR fans of any actual intellect (as I've said before, Youtube and NASCAR.com seem to attract the idiots of the fanbase, and THOSE are no fun to communicate with), so as I said, it's a bit of a bummer to see the hostilities here on the rise. Hopefully, though, things will cool off and simmer down... 76. Anonymous posted: 06.13.2015 - 10:42 pm Rate this comment: (3) (2) "I first made several VERY naive anonymous posts on old '90s NASCAR races (if you see some really naive anonymous posts dating back to '07, they're almost CERTAINLY mine...I was much younger and not as thoughtful when it came to making posts back then)." Living proof of why disallowing anonymous posters is a terrible idea. 77. Eric posted: 06.13.2015 - 10:54 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) I've been on this site for a long time and I have posted as Anonymous before back in 2008. What happened here is easy to been seen. Brian France and Mike Helton have done a bad job for a long time in terms of running things and how things are being enforced there. People have a problem with the quality of racing also on the cup level. Bruton Smith didn't help matters with the changing of Bristol at a time that it had no problems selling out. How Bruton Smith handled Kentucky Motor speedway didn't help matters for the first cup race didn't help NASCAR PR. There also is the fact NASCAR claims there is not a problem with their Cup Schedule in terms of Amount of dates some of the tracks in terms of ISC and SMI, but Fans and drivers actually see things differently such as Brad Keselowski and Kevin Harvick as examples. 78. epzik8 posted: 06.13.2015 - 11:10 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I'm only a three-year user here. Wish I had cared enough about NASCAR a few years earlier. But still, I've liked it ever since my first visit. 79. OldSchoolNascarDude1 posted: 06.13.2015 - 11:24 pm Rate this comment: (1) (3) In my opinion, members are more egotistical these days than they were even a few years ago, including myself, to be honest. Most of us tend to take things more personal, instead of having a debate about racing. This site used to have a variety of perspectives and viewpoints. It's almost like various members would rather argue with one another, instead of engaging in a debate about racing. This is a very informative site, but I think it would be in the best interest to reinstate a message board that requires a member to login and post. The only thing worse than the trolls that post nonsense on here are the members who feel the need to respond to those said trolls. It's unfortunate that popular members have decided to stop posting on this site, but hopefully things get cleaned up enough to keep this as one of the stronger, if not the strongest, NASCAR board on the web. 80. Anonymous posted: 06.13.2015 - 11:51 pm Rate this comment: (4) (3) "Popular" probably isn't the right word in this case... "infamous", maybe. 81. Eric posted: 06.14.2015 - 12:02 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) OldSchoolNascarDude1, Myself is in a category of him or herself from a posting level standpoint. I am saying this because the administrator had to delete posts from that poster. That poster's posts that were deleted were ones that were very inappropriate and proved that person needed professional help. Any poster that made the claim like the most myself did about he or she was laughing during Mike Helton's announcement that Dale Earnhardt Sr. died proves their is something wrong with the poster. 82. Eric posted: 06.14.2015 - 12:30 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) I meant to type there instead of their. 83. Biscuits In A Red Bull posted: 06.14.2015 - 3:40 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Tbh I'm barely around the NASCAR boards. But a lot of the posters strike me as irritating... ...RichardHead seems to have a point about arguing properly, although that's certainly not the biggest issue. I'm a fan of seeing things from different perspectives. That way any argument will likely be a constructive debate rather than a simple 'I'm right and you're wrong, *insert expletive here*' argument. There are a lot of good posters still, even with those who have left, but I have to admit, the quality is going hugely downhill. There is a reason I spend far more time on a different motorsport forum, which is basically for adults to talk like adults, and with my pov and arguing style I feel I fit in rather well, especially when compared to some of the more narrow minded posters/fan boys who are still plaguing forums everywhere. But rather than argue it out perhaps a blog post or something could address this better. I'll be around for the foreseeable future, don't worry! :p Btw, I like how everyone has turned sincere about this. Other than the odd stupid anonymous poster and the thumbs down brigade, this is the most constructive discussion I've had here for a long time!!! 84. KurtBusch41Fan posted: 06.14.2015 - 4:20 am Rate this comment: (0) (1) But I loved the thumbs up and down guy 85. dennyfan11 posted: 06.14.2015 - 8:53 am Rate this comment: (0) (2) I hate to say it, but i don't think the site has declined. I mean, 2014, for example, had DSFF's "Gordon fans, i'm afraid i've got some bad news" Racefangurl's "Rookies can't win", and Bradley Thomas. But in a way, however, all the insanity in the past is actually kind of fun to look back on and read for a good laugh. Still, the site is as good as ever to me, and i'll stay loyal to it. 86. dennyfan11 posted: 06.14.2015 - 8:56 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) These days, there are some bad posters, but come on, every online community has some! You can never expect a site to be perfect with no spam whatsoever. There will always be that bunch who make stupid posts. Outside of that bunch, i've seen many great, analytical discussions in the past few weeks, on pages like the Terry Labonte page. You just need to except that nothing is perfect, and that we can still have great discussions. 87. dennyfan11 posted: 06.14.2015 - 9:00 am Rate this comment: (2) (2) If you want some REALLY bad discussions, go to Yahoo! News, and read the comments there. Get ready to loose a few brain cells on the way. 88. WinstonCupStandings posted: 06.14.2015 - 10:47 am Rate this comment: (1) (1) @73 Dipshit has the Ford with the best chance to win IMO (rather see Logano win than him though Lol) 89. Karn Evil 9 posted: 06.14.2015 - 11:00 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) @86 Agreed. Pretty much EVERY online community has to have at least one person with a grade-A personality. While I do think the quality of the posts on this site has degraded somewhat over the past couple of years, it's not as bad as a few online communities I've seen over the years. At least there are some people here that have the ability to churn up an intelligent discussion. Though, to be honest, I barely post on the comments sections on this site anymore, this being a bit of an exception since I saw some of the discussion a little up the page. 90. The Long Shot posted: 06.14.2015 - 12:07 pm Rate this comment: (3) (0) "I hate to say it, but i don't think the site has declined. I mean, 2014, for example, had DSFF's "Gordon fans, i'm afraid i've got some bad news" Racefangurl's "Rookies can't win", and Bradley Thomas. But in a way, however, all the insanity in the past is actually kind of fun to look back on and read for a good laugh." Of course you wouldn't, because you've only been here for a year or so. Look at the comment pages for the year or two before you joined. They would constantly get to 1000+ comments, mainly thanks to the discussions that people like Paul, cjs, Sean, NRF, DSFF, etc. would have. And god damn, I loved reading that stuff, even if I wasn't smart enough to really participate. Now? There's pretty much none of that on these pages. Other than the few people that still do race-day play-by-play, the discussions are as bare and nonexistent as I've seen in my 2+ years here. 91. Biscuits In A Red Bull posted: 06.14.2015 - 12:24 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) When I do race commentary on F1, I feel lonely :( I know the F1 forum is very empty compared to here but even so another participant wouldn't go amiss!!! I was surprised that there was nobody else on at Canada until late, that race is on at your sort of time... 92. ORIGINAL suomynonA posted: 06.14.2015 - 12:34 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) It seems to me that most of the "discussions" around here recently have been discussions about the discussions. Maybe that's a sign that the racing is at a level where it's not giving fans anything to talk about. 93. Nathan8848 posted: 06.14.2015 - 12:56 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I feel like Harvick or Johnson will take the lead late and win. Like always Jr, will lead some laps. 1 major wreck and a blown engine by Blaney. 94. Nathan8848 posted: 06.14.2015 - 12:59 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Radar shows a small system in Kalamazoo (About 1 hour away). After that it looks clear. 95. someone posted: 06.14.2015 - 1:00 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I wonder if we'll go an unprecedented fourth race in a row w/o any phantom debris. 96. Walter White posted: 06.14.2015 - 1:00 pm Rate this comment: (3) (0) Am I the only one happy to see Audi finally lose in Le Mans? Their corporate stablemate Porsche won, and that made me very happy. Porsche is awesome. For the past 15 years, Audi has been exceptionally dominant only losing to Bentley in 03, and Peugeot in 09. Porsche, who had just started up a LMP1 program last year, beat Audi. They did it. The Marque with the most wins in Le Mans has shut up the annoying dynasty. Audi will likely come back with a vengeance but that's an issue for next year. I'm not as surprised as other people are at Toyota's decline since their WEC title last season. I'm definitely not surprised at how bad Nissan was either. They had all their cars retire. I must say, sports car racing is highly underrated. I like it way better then F1 and Indycar for sure. 97. dennyfan11 posted: 06.14.2015 - 1:04 pm Rate this comment: (2) (0) Those are some dark clouds. 98. MAR posted: 06.14.2015 - 1:04 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Im curious why are people leaving this site. I understand people not posting in Xfinity and truck races cause of watered down competion but the cup series is still interesting when it wants to be. 99. Schroeder51 posted: 06.14.2015 - 1:05 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Weather looks REALLY ugly around the track right now. Some really ominous storm clouds are all around the race track. I can't help but wonder if this race is going to end prematurely due to rain...Not that that's unprecedented here (Michigan seems to be one of THE tracks to have the most problems with rain). 100. Walter White posted: 06.14.2015 - 1:06 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Actually in 2003, Audi didn't even officially enter a team, but their corporate stablemate Bentley along with Audi's Team Joest won, so 2009 is the only year this century other then this season that a car not connected with Audi won. 2009 always seemed a fluke, but this year you feel like we might be seeing a changing of the guard over the long term in the WEC. 101. dennyfan11 posted: 06.14.2015 - 1:07 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Pocono, Atlanta, and Darlington are worse. 102. dennyfan11 posted: 06.14.2015 - 1:07 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Reply to @99. 103. dennyfan11 posted: 06.14.2015 - 1:08 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Green under threatening skies! 104. Chives5150 posted: 06.14.2015 - 1:09 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) DW still trying to be relevant. Good Lord. 105. Schroeder51 posted: 06.14.2015 - 1:09 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Green flag waves under ominous skies. Kahne takes the lead down the backstretch as Carl Edwards moves to second. 106. Nathan8848 posted: 06.14.2015 - 1:09 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Crowd is actually surprising well in the stands for the suspecting weather. 107. Schroeder51 posted: 06.14.2015 - 1:10 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Edwards takes the lead away at the line. Cowboy Hat is already backing up big time in just the first couple of laps. 108. Schroeder51 posted: 06.14.2015 - 1:10 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Alex Bowman is slow down the backstretch. Edwards takes the lead back again, and clears Kahne. 109. Chad's Hair Plugs posted: 06.14.2015 - 1:11 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Seems lighter on the frontstretch. 110. Schroeder51 posted: 06.14.2015 - 1:12 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Wow, 207 going into turn 1. Wouldn't be surprised to see Michigan become a plate track at some point in the future... 111. dennyfan11 posted: 06.14.2015 - 1:12 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Troubles for Alex Bowman. 112. Nathan8848 posted: 06.14.2015 - 1:13 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I have to admit that Amp Passion Fruit car is awesome. 113. Chad's Hair Plugs posted: 06.14.2015 - 1:13 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) @101, Watkins Glen is the worst for weather. It seems every other year, qualifying is cancelled. 114. dennyfan11 posted: 06.14.2015 - 1:13 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Wouldn't be surprised to see Michigan become a plate track at some point in the future..." Since it's a track with braking in the turns, reconfiguration might be needed for pack drafting. Otherwise, racing would be the same. 115. Chives5150 posted: 06.14.2015 - 1:13 pm Rate this comment: (2) (1) Michigan used to be one of my most hated tracks on the circuit next to Pocono, but the last 4 or 5 years has had some great racing! I know the repaving has something to do with it for the last couple of years. 116. Nathan8848 posted: 06.14.2015 - 1:15 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) It looks like it's sprinkling a tad on the driver's windshield. 117. Chives5150 posted: 06.14.2015 - 1:15 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Another reason for lost fan interest is the commercials every 8 laps. People will continue to change the channel thanks to NASCAR's corporate brilliance. 118. Nathan8848 posted: 06.14.2015 - 1:16 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Caution for rain turns 1-2. 119. dennyfan11 posted: 06.14.2015 - 1:16 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) @117, At least they're better than TNT's audio issues audio issues. 120. dennyfan11 posted: 06.14.2015 - 1:17 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Caution for guess what? RAIN. 121. Schroeder51 posted: 06.14.2015 - 1:17 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Another reason for lost fan interest is the commercials every 8 laps. People will continue to change the channel thanks to NASCAR's corporate brilliance." But those commercials are important! You NEED to be swayed into buying this product by the latest hot celebrity or be reminded to tune into the latest reality TV show featuring some very questionable, controversial characters! ...Yeah, I realize commercials are necessary (without them, TV shows and networks would have major funding issues), but in my book they are a necessary EVIL... 122. Nathan8848 posted: 06.14.2015 - 1:17 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Another reason for lost fan interest is the commercials every 8 laps. People will continue to change the channel thanks to NASCAR's corporate brilliance." I have NASCAR's Race Buddy on so when it goes to commercial, I just look at that instead. 123. Schroeder51 posted: 06.14.2015 - 1:18 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Mother Nature shows her displeasure with NASCAR for the first time today. May not be the last... 124. dennyfan11 posted: 06.14.2015 - 1:18 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Seems like a quick cell. 125. Nathan8848 posted: 06.14.2015 - 1:19 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Cars heading down to pit road. Looks like drivers may be getting out. 126. dennyfan11 posted: 06.14.2015 - 1:21 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Race under red. 127. dennyfan11 posted: 06.14.2015 - 1:21 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Of course, FOX hides it. 128. MAR posted: 06.14.2015 - 1:21 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Ok with this rain its random debate time who will win a cup race first Cowboy hat (Austin Dillon) or Cowboy hat #2 (Ty Dillon) 129. Nathan8848 posted: 06.14.2015 - 1:22 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Jr''s crew just put the tarp over with Jr. still inside. Don't think that was planned. 130. Schroeder51 posted: 06.14.2015 - 1:22 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) ^Can't help but think FOX is going to do their damnedest to cover that up for as long as possible... On the other hand, this is a plus for the network. It means they get to show us MORE COMMERCIALS! ...Hooray... 131. Chives5150 posted: 06.14.2015 - 1:22 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I know they're a necessary evil, but every 8 laps is absolutely atrocious. And none of the companies paying money for their commercials want to be seen on side-by-side, either. 132. dennyfan11 posted: 06.14.2015 - 1:23 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "who will win a cup race first Cowboy hat (Austin Dillon) or Cowboy hat #2 (Ty Dillon)" I say Austin will win first. 133. Chives5150 posted: 06.14.2015 - 1:23 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) One thing I will miss from TNT will be their Wide Open Coverage. 134. Nathan8848 posted: 06.14.2015 - 1:24 pm Rate this comment: (2) (0) Many people didn't like Wally, but I enjoyed listening to Wally Dallenbach on TNT. BP made TNT really good however. 135. Schroeder51 posted: 06.14.2015 - 1:25 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) "And none of the companies paying money for their commercials want to be seen on side-by-side, either." Yeah, it's more important that we get to see those commercials full screen apparently, because side-by-side coverage might actually distract us from then and then we won't be able to absorb them and purchase the products... This is gonna be another long day... 136. Chives5150 posted: 06.14.2015 - 1:27 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Ty Dillon has never really impressed me. He Busch career has never really struck me as entirely great, but he's still very young, so he has time to kick it up a notch. Right now, he's just a slightly chubbier Cowboy Hat. 137. Chives5150 posted: 06.14.2015 - 1:29 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Stop it, Schroeder! The evil NASCAR men will hear you and give us more of KFC commercials. :( 138. Nathan8848 posted: 06.14.2015 - 1:30 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I guess I'll go watch the Tigers lose again until the rain reaches Detroit. 139. Schroeder51 posted: 06.14.2015 - 1:30 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) "Pocono, Atlanta, and Darlington are worse." I should perhaps mention Darlington has only been affected by rain once ever since I began attending races there...the '07 race. I remember going to that race with my parents and it rained the whole way to the track and pretty much rained all night long. I remember listening to MRN through my headphones and they were very optimistic that they would get the race in that night. I knew they weren't going to race that night well before they even announced it would run on Sunday afternoon because the rain just would not stop coming down. The parking lot was very muddy when we left and I remember it was more than a bit of an ordeal trying to get out! Of course, moving Darlington's race back to Labor Day will probably significantly increase the chances that rain will affect the race, seeing as it is more likely to rain down in South Carolina in the latter part of the year... 140. Anonymous posted: 06.14.2015 - 1:39 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Austin Dillon = Ward Burton type career minus the daytona 500 win Ty Dillon = Sterling Marlin Type Career minus the Daytona 500 wins 141. The Long Shot posted: 06.14.2015 - 1:44 pm Rate this comment: (4) (0) "Austin Dillon = Ward Burton type career minus the daytona 500 win Ty Dillon = Sterling Marlin Type Career minus the Daytona 500 wins" I could maybe see the Austin comparison, but that is a pretty damn optimistic outlook for Ty. 142. someone posted: 06.14.2015 - 1:45 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) I love how there's been no commercials for the rain delay, but come race time... 143. Schroeder51 posted: 06.14.2015 - 1:47 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I can see Austin being a perennial Chase threat due to sheer consistency even though he is probably going to win very few races. Ty? I'm not sure what kind of Cup career he's going to have, but based on what I've seen out of him in his handful of Cup starts, I don't know if I should expect much... 144. MAR posted: 06.14.2015 - 1:52 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) My opinion i think Ty Dillon will be better than Austin in cup cause i think he will have the hunger to be better than his his brother all little brothers wanna out due their older brothers and so far in cup Austin Dillon is a mid pack pack driver that isnt half as fast as he was in trucks or the xfinity series but he is consistant. 145. Chad's Hair Plugs posted: 06.14.2015 - 1:53 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Sky looks pretty clear while they interview Ky Busch. 146. Nathan8848 posted: 06.14.2015 - 1:55 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Why do I even read NASCAR or NASCAR on Fox Facebook comments? I think I die a little every time I read those. 147. someone posted: 06.14.2015 - 1:57 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) From what I've seen in the Cup series, it seems like Ty runs near Austin during the races but with far less experience, so I think Ty will probably have a better career. 148. dennyfan11 posted: 06.14.2015 - 1:57 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Sun is out! 149. Nathan8848 posted: 06.14.2015 - 1:58 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Michigan has a dryer from Talladega. They really couldn't find one closer? 150. Schroeder51 posted: 06.14.2015 - 1:59 pm Rate this comment: (3) (0) "NASCAR on Fox Facebook comments? I think I die a little every time I read those." I've said it before, but I honestly think NASCAR has the highest percentage of idiots in its' fanbase out of ANY major sport (of course, I realize this is a subjective opinion). And they seem to LOVE congregating around places like Youtube, NASCAR.com, or Facebook. 151. Schroeder51 posted: 06.14.2015 - 2:00 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Suddenly the skies look MUCH brighter than they did an hour ago. They will probably be back on the track by 3:00 PM Eastern Time. 152. The Long Shot posted: 06.14.2015 - 2:04 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "My opinion i think Ty Dillon will be better than Austin in cup cause i think he will have the hunger to be better than his his brother all little brothers wanna out due their older brothers and so far in cup Austin Dillon is a mid pack pack driver that isnt half as fast as he was in trucks or the xfinity series but he is consistant." Maybe, but considering that Ty isn't running nearly as well as his brother did in Truck/Xfinity, I highly doubt it. 153. dennyfan11 posted: 06.14.2015 - 2:04 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Actually, aiming for a 2:15 restart! 154. Nathan8848 posted: 06.14.2015 - 2:04 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I thought I saw somewhere that it may be around 2:30 re-start time. 155. Nathan8848 posted: 06.14.2015 - 2:06 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) MIS is under a severe thunderstorm watch until 9pm. So if it starts to rain hard, it will be a race ender. 156. dennyfan11 posted: 06.14.2015 - 2:10 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Drivers called back to cars! 157. BluesTravelerFan posted: 06.14.2015 - 2:11 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) @142 John Daly(the racing TV producer/blogger)once told me or someone else that that's because the the sponsors pretty much demand that their ads must be shown during times when there is actual racing going on, and that the commercials must be shown during "primetime". It is a stipulation of the TV contracts. 158. Schroeder51 posted: 06.14.2015 - 2:20 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Cars are rolling back onto the track. 159. Nathan8848 posted: 06.14.2015 - 2:20 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Cars are on the track! 160. dennyfan11 posted: 06.14.2015 - 2:25 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) After a 1 hour rain delay, green again! 161. Schroeder51 posted: 06.14.2015 - 2:25 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) They get back on the track...only for the rain drops to make their return... 162. dennyfan11 posted: 06.14.2015 - 2:26 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Uh Oh, raining again. 163. Nathan8848 posted: 06.14.2015 - 2:29 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) It's raining why are the cars on the track? It's wasting laps. 164. BMan0213 posted: 06.14.2015 - 2:30 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Hearing Larry talk about all the great things NASCAR has come up with over the years and mention the Chase almost made me throw up lol. I wish we could find out how everyone REALLY feels about it and not what they have to say to avoid getting in trouble. 165. Nathan8848 posted: 06.14.2015 - 2:30 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Cars heading back down the pits. 166. Schroeder51 posted: 06.14.2015 - 2:35 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) "I wish we could find out how everyone REALLY feels about it and not what they have to say to avoid getting in trouble." Same here, but if somebody actually DID that, they would be out of a job faster than you can actually say "The Chase". 167. Nathan8848 posted: 06.14.2015 - 2:35 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Tarps on cars again. Ugh. 168. Schroeder51 posted: 06.14.2015 - 2:37 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Well, that didn't last very long. Already I am starting to wonder if this is going to be a two-day race... 169. dennyfan11 posted: 06.14.2015 - 2:37 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) More red flag. 170. Nathan8848 posted: 06.14.2015 - 2:37 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Someone on a different site just said that the tracks should have domes. The look, smell and noise would be awful. It would never happen. 171. Chives5150 posted: 06.14.2015 - 2:40 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Someone on a different site just said that the tracks should have domes. The look, smell, and noise would be awful. It would never happen." I would love to see ARCA do a race in a dome, maybe Ford Field. It would be similar to the ASA race at the Pontiac Silverdome, and a stock car race in a dome just screams ARCA. 172. BMan0213 posted: 06.14.2015 - 2:41 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) Well if this keeps up at least the Indy Car race will be starting in a few. 173. Raheem posted: 06.14.2015 - 2:41 pm Rate this comment: (1) (3) GO BIFF! 174. that e-guy posted: 06.14.2015 - 2:43 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) It could be worse.We could wait until Tuesday until this race is over like in 2007. 175. Schroeder51 posted: 06.14.2015 - 2:46 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) ...what the hell did I just see? 176. Nathan8848 posted: 06.14.2015 - 2:48 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Tigers in a rain delay now. Darn. Come on stop raining! It looks like it's brighter behind the front-strech where the rain is coming from. 177. BMan0213 posted: 06.14.2015 - 2:50 pm Rate this comment: (0) (4) So does anyone else think Keselowski is already a lock for the Hall of Fame? I mean he already has 50 wins and 2 championships in the three national series and has had some success owning a team in the Trucks. Personally I think that's enough to get him in. 178. Nathan8848 posted: 06.14.2015 - 2:55 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Drivers ordered to the cars!!! 179. Nathan8848 posted: 06.14.2015 - 3:00 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Once we go back racing, Darrell's Vortex Theory should keep the race go until the end. 180. Nathan8848 posted: 06.14.2015 - 3:01 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Cars expected to be on track in and green flag in 15 minutes. 181. Nathan8848 posted: 06.14.2015 - 3:05 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Backstretch is East of track, that past the track already. Frontrstrech and turn 2 are the areas to keep an eye as that is where the rain is coming from. 182. Nathan8848 posted: 06.14.2015 - 3:08 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) Cars are moving! 183. The Long Shot posted: 06.14.2015 - 3:09 pm Rate this comment: (2) (1) "So does anyone else think Keselowski is already a lock for the Hall of Fame? I mean he already has 50 wins and 2 championships in the three national series and has had some success owning a team in the Trucks. Personally I think that's enough to get him in." Yes, but only because the NASCAR Hall of Fame is an utter joke. 184. Schroeder51 posted: 06.14.2015 - 3:09 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Maybe THIS time we'll finally get back to green? 185. Nathan8848 posted: 06.14.2015 - 3:13 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The air titans are the reason this race is starting now. 186. Schroeder51 posted: 06.14.2015 - 3:14 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) "Yes, but only because the NASCAR Hall of Fame is an utter joke." Like I said a few weeks ago, I can't help but get the feeling that the NASCAR HoF is just going to be the same as the Rock and Roll HoF...media/critical darlings constantly getting inducted while others have to wait ages through year after year of being snubbed before they FINALLY get in (if at all). 187. Nathan8848 posted: 06.14.2015 - 3:17 pm Rate this comment: (0) (2) Pace lights off! Racing in 1 more lap 188. dennyfan11 posted: 06.14.2015 - 3:18 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Problems for Alex Bowman wave off the restart. 189. Schroeder51 posted: 06.14.2015 - 3:18 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) FINALLY we are getting ready to go racing. Or not...Bowman lost a tire and so the caution gets extended. 190. Nathan8848 posted: 06.14.2015 - 3:19 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) F! Bowman now leaves a pieces of debris thus causing them to go more yellow laps. 191. Schroeder51 posted: 06.14.2015 - 3:20 pm Rate this comment: (2) (1) "...what the hell did I just see?" For the record, what I was referring to was that wonky animation FOX showed with Brad Keselowski's car (complete guys on the hood and back of the car to represent downforce). That has got to be one of THE weirdest things I have ever seen on a NASCAR broadcast, and that is saying something! 192. Nathan8848 posted: 06.14.2015 - 3:20 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Just blow the debris to the inside wall, not wasting 5 minutes to slowly clean it up. 193. Chad's Hair Plugs posted: 06.14.2015 - 3:20 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) And there's still a competition caution on top of this? 194. BMan0213 posted: 06.14.2015 - 3:20 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) So have they said anything about still having a competition yellow. I mean they're almost at lap 30. If they were still gonna have one id assume they'd change the lap. 195. Nathan8848 posted: 06.14.2015 - 3:24 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Rain 10-15 minutes away. Jesus Christ. 196. Pucci Man posted: 06.14.2015 - 3:24 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) First, mother nature doesn't want the race to go back green. Now the Good Lord doesn't want the race to go back green. Luckily, Cup is at Sonoma in two weeks and the odds of rain hitting there are severely low. 197. Schroeder51 posted: 06.14.2015 - 3:24 pm Rate this comment: (2) (0) The first comment has 21 thumbs-up AND thumbs-down. Okay, that is definitely a bot's work. There's no way that 21 people agree AND disagree with that post at the same time. The competition yellow has been moved to lap 40. If they kept it on lap 30 that means they would go green just a couple of laps... 198. Nathan8848 posted: 06.14.2015 - 3:25 pm Rate this comment: (1) (1) I don't even 21 people are on here. 199. Schroeder51 posted: 06.14.2015 - 3:25 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Rain 10-15 minutes away. Jesus Christ." ...can we just go ahead and postpone this race until tomorrow? At this rate there's no way they're even going to make it to halfway. FINALLY, we get back to green. 200. Schroeder51 posted: 06.14.2015 - 3:26 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Truex is already going for second. 201. Chad's Hair Plugs posted: 06.14.2015 - 3:26 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Like I said a few weeks ago, I can't help but get the feeling that the NASCAR HoF is just going to be the same as the Rock and Roll HoF." x 1,000 times more political. 202. Nathan8848 posted: 06.14.2015 - 3:29 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Larson Larsoned the wall. 203. Schroeder51 posted: 06.14.2015 - 3:30 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Kyle Larson slides WAY out of the groove. I actually thought he was about to smack the hell out of the wall for a moment. 204. dennyfan11 posted: 06.14.2015 - 3:31 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I never thought this race would go green. 205. Schroeder51 posted: 06.14.2015 - 3:33 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Competition yellow flies. 206. Nathan8848 posted: 06.14.2015 - 3:33 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Competition caution. Thought that was for rain for a sec. 207. Nathan8848 posted: 06.14.2015 - 3:35 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Jr. plus 4 on pits? Hory cow! 208. Nathan8848 posted: 06.14.2015 - 3:36 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) A lot of cars had slow stops for some reason. 209. Racing Outcast1985 posted: 06.14.2015 - 3:38 pm Rate this comment: (1) (3) How about let the Drivers race in the rain 210. Nathan8848 posted: 06.14.2015 - 3:38 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Rain on windshields. 211. Nathan8848 posted: 06.14.2015 - 3:38 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Pouring on Jr's cam. Red flag it seems. 212. Nathan8848 posted: 06.14.2015 - 3:40 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Cars heading down pit road...................AGAIN. 213. dennyfan11 posted: 06.14.2015 - 3:42 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Yippe. Another red. 214. Schroeder51 posted: 06.14.2015 - 3:42 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Red flag out for rain, AGAIN. Seriously, at this rate they're not going to make it to halfway and they're going to have to come back tomorrow. What does the weather for Michigan on Monday look like...? 215. Nathan8848 posted: 06.14.2015 - 3:43 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Tarps aren't on the cars, so this may be a short red flag. 216. Chives5150 posted: 06.14.2015 - 3:45 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) This is Mother Nature letting us know that she's unhappy with NASCAR's current aero package. *puts on tinfoil hat* 217. Nathan8848 posted: 06.14.2015 - 3:46 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Stopped raining, just drying process now. Like Jimmie said, short green flag runs all day it seems. 218. Chad's Hair Plugs posted: 06.14.2015 - 3:46 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) What does the weather for Michigan on Monday look like...? 50/50 chance of thunderstorms. Tuesday, partly sunny. The frontstretch looks sunny. If this were an SMI track, they could race on the bandolero track in the infield, haha 219. Nathan8848 posted: 06.14.2015 - 3:47 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) @ 214 Aaron Studwell '@RaceWeather 51s51 seconds ago .@FordRacing21 Tomorrow looks even worse - more consistent rain is current fcst. But yes, this isn't much of a race. 220. dennyfan11 posted: 06.14.2015 - 3:47 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Seriously, at this rate they're not going to make it to halfway and they're going to have to come back tomorrow. What does the weather for Michigan on Monday look like...?" Good in the morning, but more rain in the afternoon. 221. Nathan8848 posted: 06.14.2015 - 3:51 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Track is good, pit road is wet. 222. racefangurl posted: 06.14.2015 - 3:53 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) Mother Nature must hate racing. Look at the rain on races this weekend. Ugh. Race car drivers want to play and us race fans want to see it. 223. Nathan8848 posted: 06.14.2015 - 3:56 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) Brian Neudorff '@NASCAR_WXMAN 2m2 minutes ago Stronger cell is 45 to 50 minutes away... That's if nothing forms ahead of it. Will continue to monitor... #NASCAR Just call it. Please! 224. We need more Onion posted: 06.14.2015 - 3:58 pm Rate this comment: (1) (1) "Mother Nature must hate racing." Well, all the worthy races (Le Mans, IndyCar, WSbR) were/are all in great to okay conditions. Mother nature hates the gimmicky nonsense NASCAR has become. 225. Racing Outcast1985 posted: 06.14.2015 - 4:02 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) The 1973 Indy 500 (the favorite subject of CJS) had about 100 rain delays 226. BMan0213 posted: 06.14.2015 - 4:04 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Today is one of the reasons why I fee every track should have lights. If they Michigan had them we people wouldn't be worried about them having to run the rest of the race tomorrow 227. Schroeder51 posted: 06.14.2015 - 4:07 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Drivers called back to their cars. How much do you want to bet this race ends up just BARELY making it past halfway before the rains end it? 228. Chives5150 posted: 06.14.2015 - 4:12 pm Rate this comment: (2) (0) Y'all are missing a great IndyCar race. Just sayin'. 229. Nathan8848 posted: 06.14.2015 - 4:13 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Another strom in 15-25 minutes. Lmao 230. Chives5150 posted: 06.14.2015 - 4:17 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) A random thing that bothers me is whenever there's a sports related commercial, they always use fictional teams. I understand that they can't use real teams, but it pisses me off to see "State vs. Tech" and "BP vs. RS". Maybe I'm just weird. 231. Racing Outcast1985 posted: 06.14.2015 - 4:19 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Speaking of Michigan Speedway don't you guys think it would've been cool if someone had managed to televise the entire 1981 Champion Spark Plug 400 Flag to Flag 232. Schroeder51 posted: 06.14.2015 - 4:19 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I just realized that this race is basically the '03 Daytona 500 all over again... 233. Schroeder51 posted: 06.14.2015 - 4:23 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Getting ready to go green again. How long before Mother Nature unleashes her anger again? 234. Chad's Hair Plugs posted: 06.14.2015 - 4:28 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Going by those clouds behind turn 2 I just saw, very very soon. 235. Schroeder51 posted: 06.14.2015 - 4:29 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The only track to have scarier restarts than this is Pocono. They drive like MADMEN when the green flag drops. Kyle Busch slams the wall hard and the caution comes out. 236. Nathan8848 posted: 06.14.2015 - 4:30 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) A long green run seems like it will happen says NASCAR's Weatherman. Expect Busch causes a caution. 237. Anonymous posted: 06.14.2015 - 4:30 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) lol @ NASCAR 238. Schroeder51 posted: 06.14.2015 - 4:31 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Kyle just lost it under his brother and veered straight towards the wall. This is definitely going to hurt his chances of making the top 30. 239. BMan0213 posted: 06.14.2015 - 4:31 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) And there goes Kyles Chase chances.... I said after Dover he couldn't afford any more problems. I doubt he makes it into the top 30 before Richmond now. 240. Nathan8848 posted: 06.14.2015 - 4:32 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) For anyone who wants up to date weather updates, check out Brian Neudorff (@NASCAR_WXMAN). 241. Chives5150 posted: 06.14.2015 - 4:32 pm Rate this comment: (2) (1) Still don't understand how you can win a championship by missing the first quarter of the season. NASCAR in a nutshell. 242. Schroeder51 posted: 06.14.2015 - 4:33 pm Rate this comment: (1) (1) Apparently it was raining when they threw the green and that is why Kyle slid into the wall. Way to drop the ball, NASCAR... 243. Racing Outcast1985 posted: 06.14.2015 - 4:35 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) NASCAR Leadership ladies and Gents NASCAR Leadership 244. BMan0213 posted: 06.14.2015 - 4:35 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) "Still don't understand how you can win a championship by missing the first quarter of the season. NASCAR in a nutshell." Don't worry its not gonna happen. Kyle can still help the 18 win the owners championship tho. That would be interesting at Homestead if he ends up being one of the four cars for that . 245. Schroeder51 posted: 06.14.2015 - 4:36 pm Rate this comment: (2) (0) "Still don't understand how you can win a championship by missing the first quarter of the season. NASCAR in a nutshell." A part of me wants to actually see this happen because it would be totally ridiculous. Could you really take him seriously as the champion when he missed nearly a full third of the season? 246. The Long Shot posted: 06.14.2015 - 4:36 pm Rate this comment: (1) (1) NASCAR needs to call this race and Kyle should be allowed to race tomorrow in a backup car. What a stupid move by NASCAR. 247. Nathan8848 posted: 06.14.2015 - 4:37 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Kyle needs be finish in the top 10 every race here to the end at Richmond and win a race, the likely hood of that happening is very slim. 248. We need more Onion posted: 06.14.2015 - 4:38 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) lel I can only quote myself: "Gimmicky nonsense" Welcome to NASSCAR 249. The Long Shot posted: 06.14.2015 - 4:39 pm Rate this comment: (1) (1) "Still don't understand how you can win a championship by missing the first quarter of the season. NASCAR in a nutshell." So stupid. Vickers I could maybe understand, but neither Busch brother deserved their waivers. Neither one should be allowed to compete for the championship. 250. BMan0213 posted: 06.14.2015 - 4:39 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) "NASCAR needs to call this race and Kyle should be allowed to race tomorrow in a backup car. What a stupid move by NASCAR." Why it wasn't raining when he put it in the wall. He just lost it and that's where it ended up. 251. Nathan8848 posted: 06.14.2015 - 4:40 pm Rate this comment: (2) (0) "So stupid. Vickers I could maybe understand, but neither Busch brother deserved their waivers. Neither one should be allowed to compete for the championship." Kurt Busch was proven innocent, he won a race and has been really consistent since returning. Hell, he only missed 3 races. 3 races, NASCAR had no reason for him missing. 252. Chives5150 posted: 06.14.2015 - 4:41 pm Rate this comment: (0) (2) NASCAR was too eager to throw the green and forgot to take their heads out of their asses. 253. Schroeder51 posted: 06.14.2015 - 4:41 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Getting ready to go green again. Looking at the windshields from the onboard cameras, I see no rain at the moment. 254. BMan0213 posted: 06.14.2015 - 4:42 pm Rate this comment: (4) (0) "So stupid. Vickers I could maybe understand, but neither Busch brother deserved their waivers. Neither one should be allowed to compete for the championship." IDK about Kyle but Kurt 100% deserved his. He wasn't charged with any crime. It would have been bad if NASCAR didn't let him in the Chase for something he didn't do. 255. Chad's Hair Plugs posted: 06.14.2015 - 4:44 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Its starting to drizzle on some parts of the track. 256. Nathan8848 posted: 06.14.2015 - 4:44 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Heavy damage for Gilliland hitting the wall. Made it down fast enough to pit road. 257. Schroeder51 posted: 06.14.2015 - 4:46 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Gilliland hit the wall really hard. Kind of surprised there was no yellow for that... 258. The Long Shot posted: 06.14.2015 - 4:46 pm Rate this comment: (1) (3) "Kurt Busch was proven innocent, he won a race and has been really consistent since returning. Hell, he only missed 3 races. 3 races, NASCAR had no reason for him missing." The waiver rule only applies for injuries. However righteous or not you think it was, Kurt was suspended. If they want to be consistent with the rules, he shouldn't be eligible. (And enough with the "proven innocent" bullshit. Kurt was never proven innocent, he was just not convicted because not enough hard evidence could be found.) 259. that e-guy posted: 06.14.2015 - 4:47 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Harvick is unstoppable. 260. murb posted: 06.14.2015 - 4:48 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Probably the most impressive run I've seen Ty Dillon have so far in any series. The biggest problem I have with the Chase waiver thing is that literally everyone who has missed races has been granted the waiver. They make it seem like anyone can just miss a ton of time and then come back and run for a championship. At this rate, freaking Mark Martin is gonna come back and be a "title contender". I do agree that Kurt deserved his though (and I'm glad he did - he should make the championship race interesting). 261. dennyfan11 posted: 06.14.2015 - 4:49 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) If Kyle was in the chase, NASCAR would probably end up making the system even MORE gimmicky due to fan complaints. 262. racefangurl posted: 06.14.2015 - 4:50 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) 2 out of 3 ain't bad. Only one of the Roushskateers is a lap down. 263. Nathan8848 posted: 06.14.2015 - 4:51 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) 30 green flag laps. Vortex theory? 264. Schroeder51 posted: 06.14.2015 - 4:51 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I wonder if they're going to attribute Ty's good performance these past two races to him hanging out with American Pharoah again? (Yes, they really did try to suggest that at Pocono...) It's starting to look like we're actually going to get half the race in today, so looks like we won't have to return tomorrow. 265. The Long Shot posted: 06.14.2015 - 4:51 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "I do agree that Kurt deserved his though (and I'm glad he did - he should make the championship race interesting)." I agree with that. Kurt's inclusion in the Chase will make things VERY interesting. He and Truex are the only ones that have been close to matching Harvick's consistency this year. 266. Nathan8848 posted: 06.14.2015 - 4:52 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Harvick has drove away, but a 4 car battle for 2nd. 267. Schroeder51 posted: 06.14.2015 - 4:54 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I have my own thoughts on Kurt Busch's suspension and subsequent return and Chase waiver...but I'd rather not share them. (Not because they're controversial or anything...) The question I have is...how many people actually believe his claim that his ex is a government-trained assassin? 268. Nathan8848 posted: 06.14.2015 - 4:54 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Kurt Busch pitting. I think it's a race to halfway. 269. Schroeder51 posted: 06.14.2015 - 4:54 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Harvick is more than 3 seconds out in front. He's already about to surpass the 1200 laps led mark for this year and we're not even quite halfway through the season. 270. Schroeder51 posted: 06.14.2015 - 4:56 pm Rate this comment: (2) (0) DW: "Me and Brad Paisley oughta get together and write a song called "Trash on the Grille"." Dear Lord, no. 271. racefangurl posted: 06.14.2015 - 4:56 pm Rate this comment: (0) (2) Not a fan of either Busch brother, but Kurt was less wavier worthy. He was suspended and his brother was injured. 272. Racing Outcast1985 posted: 06.14.2015 - 4:56 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) At Post 267 She's not tall enough to ride on certain roller coasters much less be taken seriously as a trained assassin 273. dennyfan11 posted: 06.14.2015 - 4:56 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Pit stops. 274. BMan0213 posted: 06.14.2015 - 4:58 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "The biggest problem I have with the Chase waiver thing is that literally everyone who has missed races has been granted the waiver. They make it seem like anyone can just miss a ton of time and then come back and run for a championship. At this rate, freaking Mark Martin is gonna come back and be a "title contender"." The reason why the have the waiver rule is so it wouldn't become like golf where you can just pick and choose the tournaments you play in and still be able to make the playoffs. NASCAR will always grant a driver a waiver if they have a real medical problem like Kyle. They would never give it to someone who just elects to skip races they don't want to run. 275. Nathan8848 posted: 06.14.2015 - 4:59 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) A. Dillon has to be speeding. He was flying. 276. Chives5150 posted: 06.14.2015 - 4:59 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) DW will leave and that'll pave the way for Jet Fuel Mikey to fill his spot. When will this madness end? 277. dennyfan11 posted: 06.14.2015 - 4:59 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Larson currently in front. 278. dennyfan11 posted: 06.14.2015 - 5:00 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Larson pits from the lead, as does Jeff Gordon and J.J Yeley. 279. The Long Shot posted: 06.14.2015 - 5:00 pm Rate this comment: (0) (2) "I have my own thoughts on Kurt Busch's suspension and subsequent return and Chase waiver...but I'd rather not share them. (Not because they're controversial or anything...) The question I have is...how many people actually believe his claim that his ex is a government-trained assassin?" My last post on Kurt, I promise... That's been the kicker for me throughout this entire thing. The guy clearly has mental problems (alleged abuse aside) if he's going to make those types of allegations, so I really don't think he belongs in a car right now. Get him the psychiatric help he needs, and then worry about his racing career. (Which is not to say that Driscoll has the cleanest record either. However, I love that so many NASCAR fans are gleefully jumping on the recent reports that Driscoll is being investigated for fraud by the IRS, yet choose to forget Kurt's ramblings in the courtroom. Way to be unbiased.) 280. dennyfan11 posted: 06.14.2015 - 5:00 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Joey Logano now on top. 281. Nathan8848 posted: 06.14.2015 - 5:01 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Severe Weather watch has been lifted. I think A storm is 24 miles west, but 1 hour away. 282. dennyfan11 posted: 06.14.2015 - 5:01 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Tire issues for Jeff Gordon. 283. murb posted: 06.14.2015 - 5:01 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) This #24 team looks like hot trash this year. 284. Nathan8848 posted: 06.14.2015 - 5:02 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) A storm is 24 miles west. Delete the "I think". 285. Chad's Hair Plugs posted: 06.14.2015 - 5:02 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) "DW: "Me and Brad Paisley oughta get together and write a song called "Trash on the Grille"." Dear Lord, no." I would like to see the NASCAR Green promo in the next break where they taut that their fans are as excited about helping the environment as they are about racing. FYI, Ms. Driscoll may end up being a gov't trained embezzler from some reports. 286. Schroeder51 posted: 06.14.2015 - 5:02 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Gordon comes back in for loose lugnuts. I can't help but get the feeling he will go winless in his final season. In a way, that would be kind of fitting considering he went winless in his first season... 287. Chives5150 posted: 06.14.2015 - 5:02 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The easiest way to end this discussion is that they both have a few screws loose. Best to stay away from those kind of people. 288. Schroeder51 posted: 06.14.2015 - 5:04 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Danica Patrick is poised to take the lead as Logano will have to pit soon. 289. dennyfan11 posted: 06.14.2015 - 5:04 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Logano pushed it too hard! Out of gas. 290. Nathan8848 posted: 06.14.2015 - 5:04 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Yologano is out of gas. Tough for him. 291. Schroeder51 posted: 06.14.2015 - 5:04 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) ...and Logano ran himself out of gas. 292. Schroeder51 posted: 06.14.2015 - 5:05 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) So will the rain actually help Danica win...? 293. Racing Outcast1985 posted: 06.14.2015 - 5:05 pm Rate this comment: (1) (1) It would be fitting if DSFF came on to this board right now and said I've got bad news Gordon fans 294. murb posted: 06.14.2015 - 5:07 pm Rate this comment: (3) (0) Stupid pit strategy has been the #22's Achilles heel all along. Exactly why I don't see Logano winning a title as long as Todd Gordon is on the box. 295. Schroeder51 posted: 06.14.2015 - 5:07 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Halfway home now. Well, at least we won't be returning tomorrow... 296. I Can't Believe It's Not DaleSrFanForeve posted: 06.14.2015 - 5:08 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) Gordon fans, i'm afraid I've got some bad news... 297. Nathan8848 posted: 06.14.2015 - 5:08 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) A big system is coming. It could be a race ender, since the race will be past halfway when it arrives. 298. C posted: 06.14.2015 - 5:09 pm Rate this comment: (1) (2) If Danica stretched it a few more laps past halfway how much you wanna bet imaginary rain would have ended the race 299. Nathan8848 posted: 06.14.2015 - 5:10 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Edwards lost about 6 spots in about 3 laps. Possible issues reported. 300. Schroeder51 posted: 06.14.2015 - 5:11 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "I would like to see the NASCAR Green promo in the next break where they taut that their fans are as excited about helping the environment as they are about racing." The irony that NASCAR claims their fans are environmentally conscious and yet it turns out many of them could not give less of a shit about the environment. Not surprising that people would just let their garbage go out on the track; half the time when I'm out driving I see people just throwing their trash out their windows onto the side of the road. Too lazy to wait to find a trash can or a recycling bin, I guess. 301. dennyfan11 posted: 06.14.2015 - 5:11 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Ty Dillon the big upset, running 9th! 302. Schroeder51 posted: 06.14.2015 - 5:12 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "If Danica stretched it a few more laps past halfway how much you wanna bet imaginary rain would have ended the race" Bold prediction: it DOES arrive during the next cycle of pit stops when she has yet to pit. 303. Nathan8848 posted: 06.14.2015 - 5:12 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Dale Jr. and Harvick are running almost identical lap times right now. 304. Schroeder51 posted: 06.14.2015 - 5:12 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Ty Dillon just move to 7th and is closing in on the top 5. Best we've seen him perform to date. 305. Nathan8848 posted: 06.14.2015 - 5:14 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Last 3 laps, Dale has been the fastest car and will pass Kenseth next lap for 2nd. 306. joey2448 posted: 06.14.2015 - 5:16 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Cowboy Hat II running really strong, now up to 7th! What a great run for Ty! 307. Nathan8848 posted: 06.14.2015 - 5:17 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Rain about 30 minutes away. It's a long line of small storms. The person I'm following is saying if they do decide to go back it would be around 7:30 restart time. This may be the final stretch. 308. MAR posted: 06.14.2015 - 5:17 pm Rate this comment: (0) (2) Told u guys Ty Dillon was better than his brother 309. Schroeder51 posted: 06.14.2015 - 5:17 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The Cowboy Hats are both having great runs. Austin is just outside the top 10. 310. Schroeder51 posted: 06.14.2015 - 5:19 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Harvick has finished in the top 2 in nearly HALF of all his starts for SHR. Holy crap. 311. Nathan8848 posted: 06.14.2015 - 5:20 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) If I was a race leader, I would stay out as long I can. This is probably the last segment until the rain comes again in 20 minutes. 312. Anonymous posted: 06.14.2015 - 5:20 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Outside of the rain cautions and one wreck, I guess that Mr. J.D. has been fired. If the rain is coming, this race is gonna get really interesting... 313. Schroeder51 posted: 06.14.2015 - 5:20 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Of course FOX is anticipating the full race being run today. Leaders are pitting now. 314. We need more Onion posted: 06.14.2015 - 5:21 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Lol, it's 82 to go and it's the 1st time Ty shows ANYTHING in a cup car. Don't start licking his balls already. 315. Nathan8848 posted: 06.14.2015 - 5:21 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Dark clouds in turn 4. 316. Nathan8848 posted: 06.14.2015 - 5:22 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Harvick may have it the wall or tire problems!!! 317. Schroeder51 posted: 06.14.2015 - 5:22 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Harvick is off the pace and coming back to the pits! He says he has a flat tire. 318. Nathan8848 posted: 06.14.2015 - 5:22 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Dale Yeah!! 319. Chad's Hair Plugs posted: 06.14.2015 - 5:22 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Harvick had to pit again, the right front tire is already down. 320. dennyfan11 posted: 06.14.2015 - 5:22 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Harvick with a flat. 321. murb posted: 06.14.2015 - 5:22 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Welcome back, early 2014 Harvick. 322. We need more Onion posted: 06.14.2015 - 5:23 pm Rate this comment: (2) (1) FINALLY! Harvick has some bad luck. I'll enjoy these moments until he resumes his dominance. 323. dennyfan11 posted: 06.14.2015 - 5:24 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Caution for real debris. 324. Nathan8848 posted: 06.14.2015 - 5:24 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Rain about 15 minutes away. This may be it. 325. Schroeder51 posted: 06.14.2015 - 5:24 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) Real debris caution. Holy cow, maybe Jacques actually HAS been fired by NASCAR. What did he do to piss them off? 326. Chad's Hair Plugs posted: 06.14.2015 - 5:24 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Caution for debris that Harvick left on his way back to pit road. 327. Lucstar88 posted: 06.14.2015 - 5:24 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Real debris. THIS RACE JUST GOT INTERESTING! With rain coming, this gonna be good :D 328. We need more Onion posted: 06.14.2015 - 5:25 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Mears catches a break and Ty Dillon gets his good run spoiled with getting trapped a lap down. 329. Nathan8848 posted: 06.14.2015 - 5:27 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) 15 cars on lead lap. Including...........Trevor Bayne. 330. Howard Salwasser posted: 06.14.2015 - 5:27 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Cousin Carl doesn't pit. He knows something we don't. Or does he? 331. Anonymous posted: 06.14.2015 - 5:28 pm Rate this comment: (0) (2) "15 cars on lead lap. Including...........Trevor Bayne." Wow... real hard to stay on the lead lap when you use fuel strategy... Bayne is still a JOKE!! 332. Schroeder51 posted: 06.14.2015 - 5:29 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Now Edwards comes in. 333. Nathan8848 posted: 06.14.2015 - 5:30 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Edwards now pits. Rain is too far back. Larson starts 1st. 334. Howard Salwasser posted: 06.14.2015 - 5:30 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Never mind. Cousin Carl is in again. 335. Chad's Hair Plugs posted: 06.14.2015 - 5:30 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Edwards pits cuz he was about out of fuel and the rain didn't get to the track quick enough. 336. Schroeder51 posted: 06.14.2015 - 5:31 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) A restart with 70 laps to go and rain in the area. *insert Michael Jackson "dis gun b good" GIF here* 337. Nathan8848 posted: 06.14.2015 - 5:31 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Rain 5 minutes away. This is it!! 338. racefangurl posted: 06.14.2015 - 5:31 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Miracles never cease. 339. Schroeder51 posted: 06.14.2015 - 5:31 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Larson is gambling on it raining before he pits again. I don't know if it's going to work out... 340. Nathan8848 posted: 06.14.2015 - 5:32 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Que the Jaws theme for rain. 341. Howard Salwasser posted: 06.14.2015 - 5:33 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Kyle's gonna be scored in last place. 342. Schroeder51 posted: 06.14.2015 - 5:33 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Chris Heroy HAS to be doing the rain dance right now. 343. Nathan8848 posted: 06.14.2015 - 5:33 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Busch will steal it from Larson. 344. racefangurl posted: 06.14.2015 - 5:33 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Do you see what I see? Up in the top-10 a Roush car is right near a Penske car and the Roush car was ahead for a bit. 345. Chad's Hair Plugs posted: 06.14.2015 - 5:34 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) There goes that gamble... 346. Schroeder51 posted: 06.14.2015 - 5:34 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Mother Nature did not help him. Larson comes in to pit. 347. Schroeder51 posted: 06.14.2015 - 5:35 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Do you see what I see? Up in the top-10 a Roush car is right near a Penske car and the Roush car was ahead for a bit." Do remember that Bayne's top 10 run is due to strategy falling in his favor, not due to him legitimately running that strongly. 348. murb posted: 06.14.2015 - 5:35 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Do you see what I see? Up in the top-10 a Roush car is right near a Penske car and the Roush car was ahead for a bit." Because of pit strategy. 349. Nathan8848 posted: 06.14.2015 - 5:35 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Kurt Busch will be awarded the win. Rain is coming and oh so close. 350. We need more Onion posted: 06.14.2015 - 5:36 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Legit, Bayne would be around 17th-20th. 351. dennyfan11 posted: 06.14.2015 - 5:36 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) More rain right nearby. Will probably end the race. 352. Nathan8848 posted: 06.14.2015 - 5:36 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) That's all folks. Race over. Congrats to Kurt Busch. 353. Anonymous posted: 06.14.2015 - 5:36 pm Rate this comment: (0) (4) Sever Brain going to luck into a top 10 because of a FLUKE strategy. Makes me sick 354. dennyfan11 posted: 06.14.2015 - 5:36 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Race over, Kurt Busch wins. 355. Schroeder51 posted: 06.14.2015 - 5:36 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Mother Nature is here again. Most likely this is gonna be called right here. 356. We need more Onion posted: 06.14.2015 - 5:36 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Boom! Rain. 357. murb posted: 06.14.2015 - 5:37 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) "Legit, Bayne would be around 17th-20th." I haven't seen the whole race, but he was like 26th the whole time I was watching up until the wild strategies starting happening. 358. Lucstar88 posted: 06.14.2015 - 5:38 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Close for Larson, radar looks bad. Red and Orange everywhere, could be over, and Kurt wants it over. 359. Lucstar88 posted: 06.14.2015 - 5:39 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Red Flag, lighting in the area, it's likely over boys 360. Nathan8848 posted: 06.14.2015 - 5:39 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Seems like MIS got lucky. Ann Arbor is experiencing flooding. 361. We need more Onion posted: 06.14.2015 - 5:39 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) ""Legit, Bayne would be around 17th-20th." I haven't seen the whole race, but he was like 26th the whole time I was watching up until the wild strategies starting happening. " Well, probably you are right then, he was 18th during the red flag and I watched Indycars instead. 362. Nathan8848 posted: 06.14.2015 - 5:40 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Rain will last for 30-45 minutes. I thinks it's over. Especially with what Lucstar reported. 363. Schroeder51 posted: 06.14.2015 - 5:40 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Red flag is out. This is probably gonna be it... 364. Anonymous posted: 06.14.2015 - 5:40 pm Rate this comment: (6) (12) [comment deleted] 365. BMan0213 posted: 06.14.2015 - 5:41 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Damn... Yeah I'm gonna be pissed at Larson's call. If he pits before the yellow Jr would have had the outside on the restart and with how much clean air is worth he probably would have been gone... 366. racefangurl posted: 06.14.2015 - 5:41 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Mother Nature sure rained on NASCAR's parade today. 367. Nathan8848 posted: 06.14.2015 - 5:41 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Just call it. 368. racefangurl posted: 06.14.2015 - 5:42 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) 364, that's sick, as in diseased or like a sick joke. 369. murb posted: 06.14.2015 - 5:42 pm Rate this comment: (3) (4) If this is it, I'm fine with Kurt winning. That's much better than someone random like Bayne or Austin Dillon lucking into a Chase spot. 370. Nathan8848 posted: 06.14.2015 - 5:43 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) It's pouring now. Please end it's misery. 371. MAR posted: 06.14.2015 - 5:43 pm Rate this comment: (1) (3) The Trevor Bayne haters have arrived i see 372. Schroeder51 posted: 06.14.2015 - 5:43 pm Rate this comment: (2) (2) "Can't spell MIS without MS....." Okay, making fun of his medical condition that he can't help is just getting into straight-up douchebag territory. Kurt is gonna be in the final 4 come Chase time. I've said it before, but I'm convinced that he, Harvick, and Johnson will be 3 of the final 4. Now it's REALLY pouring. 373. someone posted: 06.14.2015 - 5:43 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Darn it, this rain is 15 minutes late. All I want is for Carl to get a top 10 :( 374. dennyfan11 posted: 06.14.2015 - 5:44 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Downpouring at the track. Race Over. 375. Lucstar88 posted: 06.14.2015 - 5:44 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) That is a downpour!!!!! O_O 376. BMan0213 posted: 06.14.2015 - 5:45 pm Rate this comment: (3) (1) "The Trevor Bayne haters have arrived i see" Not really they're right. He was no where near the top 10 all day he was solidly in the top 20 but that's it. I can tell you're a Bayne fan but you can't denied he backed into this top 10 do to strategy not because of his driving. 377. Nathan8848 posted: 06.14.2015 - 5:45 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Why have they not called it? They have lost the track. Heavy rain will last 45 minutes. 378. dennyfan11 posted: 06.14.2015 - 5:46 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Congrats for Kurt Busch getting his second win of the year! 379. Chad's Hair Plugs posted: 06.14.2015 - 5:46 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) I like that Myers makes Mikey go out and check the weather. He is soaking wet. 380. Howard Salwasser posted: 06.14.2015 - 5:47 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Can't see the backstretch from the broadcast booth. 381. Schroeder51 posted: 06.14.2015 - 5:47 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Well, apparently the anonymous individual thinks he is justified in picking on Bayne for his MS...Like I said, that's just plain sick. Good heavens, has the sky opened up. I can't even see a THING out the windows of the broadcast booth. If they manage to restart this race after this, I will be amazed. 382. joey2448 posted: 06.14.2015 - 5:48 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) FOX guys can't make up their mind. Earlier, it's "We're getting a race in today! This track dries fast!" Now it's "Nope, can't get this track dried in time before darkness. They should just call it now." 383. Nathan8848 posted: 06.14.2015 - 5:48 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) It's amazing how much people here pitty strategy. 384. Howard Salwasser posted: 06.14.2015 - 5:48 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "I like that Myers makes Mikey go out and check the weather. He is soaking wet." Must be a leak at the Hollywood Hotel. 385. BMan0213 posted: 06.14.2015 - 5:48 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Why have they not called it? They have lost the track. Heavy rain will last 45 minutes." Same reason why they ran Austin out of gas at Bristol trying to get a GWC in. The people in charge aren't smart lol. 386. Nathan8848 posted: 06.14.2015 - 5:49 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) My friend at the track just said they called it. 387. Chad's Hair Plugs posted: 06.14.2015 - 5:49 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "I like that Myers makes Mikey go out and check the weather. He is soaking wet." Must be a leak at the Hollywood Hotel. Last check-in, the camera for Myers/Mikey had water all over it. Bwa-ha-ha! 388. Schroeder51 posted: 06.14.2015 - 5:49 pm Rate this comment: (3) (0) Knowing NASCAR, they will actually try to dry the track and get them back out on the track for a few lap shootout. I can honestly see them doing that... 389. BMan0213 posted: 06.14.2015 - 5:50 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Knowing NASCAR, they will actually try to dry the track and get them back out on the track for a few lap shootout. I can honestly see them doing that... Thats what they did at Bristol and that was just for 2 laps.... 390. Chad's Hair Plugs posted: 06.14.2015 - 5:52 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) This is for TV's sakes. One last commercial break, the race will be called when they come back, an interview with Kurt, the "Grid"(yuck) and they're out neatly at the top of the hour. 391. Nathan8848 posted: 06.14.2015 - 5:54 pm Rate this comment: (1) (1) NASCAR is waiting to see if there is any way Jr. can win. 392. MAR posted: 06.14.2015 - 5:55 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Yea Bayne may have backed into a top 10 but u cant deny he was the best RFR car all week which is a great improvement 393. Cumulonimbus posted: 06.14.2015 - 5:55 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Well, there won't be any more rain after this shower passes... and that won't take more than 10-15 minutes and there's still plenty of daylight left. So they could attempt drying the track, but it will take a while since it's soaked. 394. Racing Outcast1985 posted: 06.14.2015 - 5:55 pm Rate this comment: (0) (3) The people who are running NASCAR have got to be the dumbest human beings in the entire universe 395. Schroeder51 posted: 06.14.2015 - 5:56 pm Rate this comment: (3) (0) Hey, they actually played actual CCR instead of some mediocre country cover or a hokey royalty-free instrumental version. That's something that is unfortunately uncommon these days on NASCAR broadcasts... And of course Michael is bring up his '03 Daytona 500 win. I told you this race was just like that one! 396. Nathan8848 posted: 06.14.2015 - 5:57 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The latest the race can go is around 8:45 as that is after the sun sets. They could possibly wait for another 30 minutes, but I doubt they would. 397. Howard Salwasser posted: 06.14.2015 - 5:58 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Looks like the rain stopped. For now. Can the Air Titans do the job before sunset hits? 398. Schroeder51 posted: 06.14.2015 - 5:58 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Yea Bayne may have backed into a top 10 but u cant deny he was the best RFR car all week which is a great improvement" Again though, it IS just one race. You can't really judge based on one race. Just like you can't write off somebody like Daniel Suarez after a disastrous performance (like he had at Daytona), you can't say someone like Bayne has turned his race around after one better performance. 399. BMan0213 posted: 06.14.2015 - 5:58 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) The longer this goes the more I think they're gonna wait it out dry the track and run a 20 lap shootout for the win. It wont matter tho. Kurt would just pick the outside lane and drive away to the win because the cars can't pass. 400. BMan0213 posted: 06.14.2015 - 6:00 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Again though, it IS just one race. You can't really judge based on one race. Just like you can't write off somebody like Daniel Suarez after a disastrous performance (like he had at Daytona), you can't say someone like Bayne has turned his race around after one better performance." Especially since Michigan has historically been one of Roush's best tracks. 401. joey2448 posted: 06.14.2015 - 6:00 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) If this race is called and Kurt wins, this wouldn't be the first time Busch has won a rain-affected race at Michigan. Remember back in 2007 when Kurt won in the August race? That was a race also plagued by rain. NASCAR ended up running it on Tuesday! Mikey sure loves hearing himself talk. I hate it. Rain has all but slowed to a stop. Could they still get it going again? 402. Schroeder51 posted: 06.14.2015 - 6:01 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I meant season, not race. But my point still stands. Before you start saying "Trevor is turning his season around", you have to wait and see how he does over next several races. Good heavens, the track is absolutely DRENCHED. It will take a miracle for them to get back racing before darkness comes, even with the Air Titans...Of course, NASCAR will try their damnedest... 403. Nathan8848 posted: 06.14.2015 - 6:01 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I guess they will wait it out. 404. Chad's Hair Plugs posted: 06.14.2015 - 6:01 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Nope, I'm wrong. Fox wants us to watch a 1/2 hour of "The Worst Damn Sports Show Period" before they call the inevitable. 405. joey2448 posted: 06.14.2015 - 6:03 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Sunset in Michigan is 9:14 p.m. ET. So that's at least a three-hour window that they are working with. Various reports on twitter. Matt Weaver says it's raining hard again, but Mike Joy said the rain has stopped. It looked to me on TV that it was almost stopped. 406. Nathan8848 posted: 06.14.2015 - 6:03 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Rain system will still be here for another 18 minutes. It will take more than an hour to dry. If they did go back, it would be around 8pm. 407. MAR posted: 06.14.2015 - 6:03 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) So Michigan still doesn't have lights 408. BMan0213 posted: 06.14.2015 - 6:03 pm Rate this comment: (0) (2) I was gonna be mad that Kurt won because he beat Jr but now i'm beginning to feel a little bad they're making him wait. Say what you want, but I cant help but feel that if Dale was the leader the race would have already been called. 409. Schroeder51 posted: 06.14.2015 - 6:05 pm Rate this comment: (2) (0) I guess it's more important that we see the clowns of FOX Sports Live... "Mikey sure loves hearing himself talk. I hate it." Same here; I often wonder how in the hell is it that so many people in NASCAR's fanbase actually think he's really funny. Then again, Mikey is pretty damned annoying, so I guess it makes perfect sense that he would naturally appeal to the more annoying fans... 410. joey2448 posted: 06.14.2015 - 6:05 pm Rate this comment: (1) (3) And NASCAR has called it. Kurt Busch is your winner! 411. Schroeder51 posted: 06.14.2015 - 6:06 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) It's over. Kurt Busch gets his second win of the year. 412. Nathan8848 posted: 06.14.2015 - 6:06 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) Congrats Kurt. 413. dennyfan11 posted: 06.14.2015 - 6:06 pm Rate this comment: (0) (2) Over. Kurt wins. 414. Lucstar88 posted: 06.14.2015 - 6:06 pm Rate this comment: (0) (2) Kurt wins. 415. WinstonCupStandings posted: 06.14.2015 - 6:06 pm Rate this comment: (0) (3) Kurt Busch wins. 416. Anonymous posted: 06.14.2015 - 6:06 pm Rate this comment: (4) (4) "And NASCAR has called it. Kurt Busch is your winner!" He might be YOUR winner... 417. Racing Outcast1985 posted: 06.14.2015 - 6:07 pm Rate this comment: (1) (3) I may be stating the obvious with this remark but NASCAR is being run by a bunch of bumbling Idiots 418. BMan0213 posted: 06.14.2015 - 6:08 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) About 30 minutes late but oh well. Congrats to Kurt. If I'm doing my math right this is the 9th win for HMS engines this year. If I remember right they won 19 races last year. 419. We need more Onion posted: 06.14.2015 - 6:09 pm Rate this comment: (4) (0) ""Mikey sure loves hearing himself talk. I hate it." Same here; I often wonder how in the hell is it that so many people in NASCAR's fanbase actually think he's really funny. Then again, Mikey is pretty damned annoying, so I guess it makes perfect sense that he would naturally appeal to the more annoying fans... " The bigger problem is that this same kind of fan is the one who can't decipher what people like Craven are saying because he makes sense when he talks. 420. Chad's Hair Plugs posted: 06.14.2015 - 6:09 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) So Michigan still doesn't have lights They don't even have lights in the garage. 421. KurtBusch41Fan posted: 06.14.2015 - 6:15 pm Rate this comment: (1) (1) Woohoo #2 for Kurt!! 422. Pucci Man posted: 06.14.2015 - 6:18 pm Rate this comment: (2) (0) Well, the war is over. Mother Nature won. It took her five times to defeat NASCAR. I don't why Michigan doesn't have lights. MIS & NASCAR should know by now this track always has rain problems. If they had lights, this race could've ended under the lights. It would be awesome if MIS had night races. The racing atmosphere would be a killer with night races at MIS. Congrats on Kurt for winning another shorten race. I think Kurt can possibly win the championship this year if Kevin and Johnson don't perform well in the Chase. 423. BMan0213 posted: 06.14.2015 - 6:21 pm Rate this comment: (1) (1) First time since 2011 Kurt has won more than won race in a season. Can't help but feel he's gonna at least get to his career high of four wins before the season's over. 424. Driver X posted: 06.14.2015 - 6:23 pm Rate this comment: (2) (2) Congrats Kurt Busch!! Given all he's been through this season, it's great to see him kicking ass this year. 425. epzik8 posted: 06.14.2015 - 6:37 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) What can I say. It's Michigan... 426. TS1420 posted: 06.14.2015 - 6:39 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Woo Kurt Busch and SHR! Too bad the race could't go all 200 laps but I had a great time in the infield watching it. It is too bad MIS doesnt have lights. Oh well great weekend at the track regardless. 427. someone posted: 06.14.2015 - 6:56 pm Rate this comment: (2) (0) Lol, if the rain did come earlier, Carl would've done the double; fuel milage win and a rain shortened win! 428. 1995z71 posted: 06.14.2015 - 7:17 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Trevor Bayne gets his first Top 10 with Roush. 429. Seagal posted: 06.14.2015 - 7:29 pm Rate this comment: (1) (4) I'm a very infrequent poster, but I do still check in from time to time. I'm sorry to read that so many of this board's best posters (David, Sean, Paul, etc) have ceased contributing. I grew disillusioned with this board as well and I spend most of my time on race weekends over on Reddit's NASCAR page now. It has a few of your standard crazies (though nothing near what you see on Facebook), but it also has a lot of intelligent and fun discussions too. Those of you who haven't yet should really check it out. 430. Nascar Lead Lap Points posted: 06.14.2015 - 7:38 pm Rate this comment: (1) (2) Sponsor Updates #88 AMP Energy Passion Fruit #48 Lowe's/Kobalt Tools #24 Panasonic Tough Book #47 Kroger/Hungry Jack/Martha White #17 Milwaukee/Fastenal #35 Speed Stick Gear #3 E15 American Ethanol #4 Budweiser #26 Maxim Fantasy Sports #7 Racing Rewards.com #83 Sponsor was the same last week at Pocono. Dr.Pepper has not been on the QB since Dover Owner Update #98 Jay Robinson 431. typo posted: 06.14.2015 - 8:11 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) @Racing Outcast1985 Nascar is a part of the entertainment business. Its pretty obvious they would try to find a way to resume the race so fans would feel the got their money's worth. At least people these days can handle rain shortened race. Back in the 1950's and 1960's fans would riot if the did not get a full race and a lot of fights would break out from not getting their moneys worth. 432. An Aussie Commentator posted: 06.14.2015 - 8:21 pm Rate this comment: (2) (3) Webmaster, please delete post 364. That is just too insensitive to be allowed on this forum. 433. racefangurl posted: 06.14.2015 - 8:32 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) 432, that comment was a sick joke in my eyes, as I said earlier so I agree with your "too insensitive" view. 434. Cooper posted: 06.14.2015 - 8:36 pm Rate this comment: (1) (5) All of you attacking Trevor Bayne have no idea about racing. He can't make the car go faster. RFR has an average finish of 24th this year. He was actually getting MORE out of the equipment than he is supposed too. He has also passed Wrecky Stenhouse in the standings and is closing in on 15 year veteran Greg Biffle. What I want to know is what the hell are your expectations for Trevor Bayne??? 12 Wins, 24 Top 5's 36 Top 10's and an exorcism at every event? Like Geez. 435. C posted: 06.14.2015 - 8:36 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) 364 There is a difference between saying he isn't a great driver and making fun of a disease he can't control that's crossing the line. 436. Nathan8848 posted: 06.14.2015 - 8:46 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) 52 total replies to the 1st comment. Someone is clearly spamming. 437. ORIGINAL suomynonA posted: 06.14.2015 - 8:58 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Trevor Bayne certainly isn't doing any worse than Stenhouse, although I'm not sure that's saying much given how much of a disappointment he has become. As for not being far behind Biffle, that's not exactly true... there's almost a full two-race points gap in between them. And besides, Biffle is at the age and point in his career where he's bound to decline. I'm sure Roush's equipment isn't at the level it was at when Mark Martin was winning left and right, but it's pretty clear their roster of drivers is lacking. Bayne may be the best driver they have in terms of results by the end of this year or next year, but that doesn't necessarily mean he's doing a good job. 438. racefangurl posted: 06.14.2015 - 9:01 pm Rate this comment: (0) (3) Cooper, they may not have liked him running behind Biffle. Or perhaps it was just a haters gonna hate thing. 439. BMan0213 posted: 06.14.2015 - 9:29 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) "He has also passed Wrecky Stenhouse in the standings and is closing in on 15 year veteran Greg Biffle." I'm sorry, but to say he's closing in on Biffle is a bit of a joke as hes 88 points behind him. I'll give Bayne credit today as he was the best running Roush car, but he would not have gotten the finish the he did had it not been for the rain. It's a nice first step for him, but I'll be much more impressed if he can run that well at a track like Kentucky or New Hampshire. Not a track like today where his team even in bad years has been historically good at. 440. Schroeder51 posted: 06.14.2015 - 9:30 pm Rate this comment: (2) (0) I wasn't expecting Bayne to light the world on fire and be a title contender, but I was honestly expecting him to do better than he has so far. I thought he would at least be frequently finishing in the top 20 and have more top 10s than the one he got today. Instead he's been struggling pretty much all season long, sits multiple races behind Biffle in points, and is only one point ahead of Stenhouse (not to mention, they have almost the EXACT same average finish-26.5 vs. 26.6). As I've said before, I know Roush's equipment isn't as elite as it used to be, but I genuinely don't think equipment is 100% the reason the team is struggling. And as I've said...I have nothing against Bayne. I don't hate him at all, in fact I think he's genuinely likable and I would definitely like to see him do well. So to see him struggle thus far is more than a little concerning. I think perhaps the worst thing that could have happened to him is winning the Daytona 500 so early in his career. Sure, he'll always be able to have that honor, but I think it raised some people's expectations of him to too lofty a level... 441. Schroeder51 posted: 06.14.2015 - 9:36 pm Rate this comment: (2) (0) But for the record, I firmly agree that comment #364 was WAY out of line. That attempt at a "joke" was just cruel. It's one thing to criticize Bayne or say he is overrated. It's QUITE a different thing to make fun of the poor guy for having debilitating condition that he can't do anything about. It's not his fault he has MS. I honestly think this particular anonymous individual should consider becoming a writer for Family Guy as that kind of "joke" would fit in QUITE well on that show (I don't hate Family Guy, but some of their more cruel and mean-spirited attempts at humor can be...a lot to stomach, to say the least...). 442. racefangurl posted: 06.14.2015 - 9:37 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) These last couple races are perhaps a good sign. Possibly, from here on he'll be in the top 20 more and get some more top 10s. We can only hope. Time will tell, but things look better than they did at Dover. 443. ORIGINAL suomynonA posted: 06.14.2015 - 9:40 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "I honestly think this particular anonymous individual should consider becoming a writer for Family Guy as that kind of "joke" would fit in QUITE well on that show (I don't hate Family Guy, but some of their more cruel and mean-spirited attempts at humor can be...a lot to stomach, to say the least...)." If only he/she started it with "this reminds me of the time". 444. Scott B posted: 06.14.2015 - 9:41 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Random stats for this week's race: 1. Danica Patrick leads her first laps (2) of the 2015 season. 2. Other than the two DNF's due to crashes, no cars finish more than two laps down. 445. Sector posted: 06.14.2015 - 10:33 pm Rate this comment: (4) (4) I must say, after browsing on this board for nearly 5 years now, and only posting for a year (a couple years back), before I starting browsing/lurking again. There haven't been any logical posters anymore. All you see are biased and favoritism these days. Racefangurl's obsession with Bayne/Logano comes to mind. It's something all boards come to, I only come here to view stats during races most of the time anyway. I really enjoyed the posts made by cjs and Dale Sr Forever, they were original and awesome posters. Now? We're just reading the same stuff over and over again week in and week out. This is probably the last time I'll ever post, just putting in my 2 cents while the topic was discussed here earlier. Happy race day everyone! 446. Chives5150 posted: 06.14.2015 - 11:16 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Certainly interesting to see Kurt win this thing while Kyle finishes dead last. Even with the absurd amount of pit strategies, Truex and Company still finish 3rd! Not that I'm genuinely surprised given the obvious dominance they've displayed this year, but it's still incredible seeing them cranking out top-5s and top-10s with all the craziness that has been around them. 447. Nathan8848 posted: 06.14.2015 - 11:45 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Clint Bowyer finished 10th, wow. Fox didn't even mention him. Heck, 7th-10th and 13th all went unnoticed the entire race. Even though they all made huge grounds. Pit strategy or not. 448. WinstonCupStandings posted: 06.15.2015 - 1:51 am Rate this comment: (0) (5) Top 26 (that are on the big teams) 1) Kevin Harvick (2357) -Leader 2) Joey Logano (2118) -239 3) Dale Earnhardt, Jr. (2091) -266 4) Jimmie Johnson (2080) -277 5) Brad Keselowski (1977) -380 6) Matt Kenseth (1905) -452 7) Jamie McMurray (1903) -454 8) Kasey Kahne (1844) -513 9) Ryan Newman (1816) -541 10) Jeff Gordon (1814) -543 11) Paul Menard (1756) -601 12) Denny Hamlin (1743) -614 13) Kurt Busch (1713) -644 14) Carl Edwards (1695) -662 15) Aric Almirola (1675) -682 16) Clint Bowyer (1642) -715 17) Kyle Larson (1545) -812 18) Danica Patrick (1544) -813 19) Greg Biffle (1536) -821 20) Austin Dillon (1410) -947 21) Sam Hornish, Jr. (1289) -1068 22) Tony Stewart (1281) -1076 23) Ricky Stenhouse, Jr. (1262) -1095 24) Trevor Bayne (1256) -1101 25) Kyle Busch (362) -1995 26) Brian Vickers (158) -2199 449. someone posted: 06.15.2015 - 2:43 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Did Paul Menard even get any screen time despite his eighth place finish? 450. DRF posted: 06.15.2015 - 2:54 am Rate this comment: (0) (3) 449- why the hell would he? 451. someone posted: 06.15.2015 - 2:56 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Sorry, I posted that before I saw his average running position was 20th. 452. JP88 posted: 06.15.2015 - 9:52 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Boy Ty Dillon was pretty impressive yesterday...better than his brother? 453. The Great Dave posted: 06.15.2015 - 11:01 am Rate this comment: (4) (0) "Boy Ty Dillon was pretty impressive yesterday...better than his brother?" That's like saying Brett Bodine was better then Todd Bodine 454. The Long Shot posted: 06.15.2015 - 12:56 pm Rate this comment: (3) (0) "Boy Ty Dillon was pretty impressive yesterday...better than his brother?" *sigh*...haven't we learned by now that making snap judgements after one race is an incredibly silly thing to do? 455. Sarf52 posted: 06.15.2015 - 3:09 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) ^Exactly, this is why we should discard Bayne's Top-10 as a fluke...just like his 500 win! 456. racefangurl posted: 06.15.2015 - 4:13 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) A top-10 is a top-10, no matter why, as far as points go. 457. dennyfan11 posted: 06.15.2015 - 4:34 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) You guys don't make sense sometimes. "You can't spell MIS without MS" 6 thumbs up. 458. Anonymous posted: 06.15.2015 - 4:56 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) @457: What's the point of the webmaster deleting stupid comments if people are just going to quote them anyway and cause them to perpetuate? 459. Biscuits In A Red Bull posted: 06.15.2015 - 5:17 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) To be fair, without MS, the only bit of MIS you get is I. :p 460. MarkMartinFan posted: 06.15.2015 - 5:45 pm Rate this comment: (2) (0) All it takes is one good "fluke" run and that can get you started. Keselowski had a "fluke" gas mileage win at Kansas in 2011 and that kick started his run to the top. 461. MarkMartinFan posted: 06.15.2015 - 5:46 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Boy Ty Dillon was pretty impressive yesterday...better than his brother?" I've actually thought from the beginning that Ty was better than Austin. 462. racefangurl posted: 06.16.2015 - 12:32 am Rate this comment: (0) (1) If anyone mentions that sick joke again, I'll vomit. It's disgusting anyone could think of such a thing. 463. BMan0213 posted: 06.16.2015 - 2:11 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "All it takes is one good "fluke" run and that can get you started. Keselowski had a "fluke" gas mileage win at Kansas in 2011 and that kick started his run to the top." Not really, From that Kansas race up to the point he broke his ankle at Road Atlanta (a span of seven races) his best finish was only 7th and he had three finishes outside the top 20. It wasn't until he won Pocono on that broken ankle that he started to turn his season around and that win was anything but at fluke. 464. Mannoroth posted: 06.16.2015 - 2:39 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) One Busch brother won the race, the other one finished dead last. That happened twice in modern era of NASCAR (first were Darrell and Michael Waltrip, when Darrell won The Busch 500 at Bristol in 1989 and Michael finished dead last). 465. JP88 posted: 06.16.2015 - 9:00 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Well I remember seeing Ty making a pass for like 7th or 8th while Austin was never able to stay in the top-10. I'd say that's pretty good. 466. racefangurl posted: 06.16.2015 - 4:59 pm Rate this comment: (0) (2) Here's a hypothetical situation of one brother wins and the other's last. Austin Dillon wins a race at say, Daytona and Ty crashes out finishing last. Or Ty wins and Austin crashes. Speaking of Austin Dillon, Paul Menard's old crew chief will become Austin's crew chief and Gil Martin will take Slugger Labbe's current role. 467. Cooper posted: 06.16.2015 - 9:40 pm Rate this comment: (3) (4) Coope's Power Rankings (Was going to put weekly in the title but lets be honest I'll probably get lazy) 1. Kevin Harvick- The only things that have been able to stop Kevin have been the #78 car and those damn tires. 2. Martin Truex Jr.- Talk about re-inventing your career. Gives all those 30 years old in their mom's basement some hope. 3. Jimmie Johnson- Not the most dominating season but yet has the most wins this year. Jimmie gonna' Jimmie I guess. 4. Dale Earnhardt Jr.- This guy is becoming one of the most consistent racers in the garage area. 40 years old and getting better. 5. Kurt Busch- Almost half way in the season and Kurt has yet to lose a ride, get a divorce, or swear at reporters. Already a successful season. 6. Joey Logano- Sliced bread living up to his nickname. Boring but effective. Everyone needs bread to survive. 7. Brad Keselowski- Has avoided getting a fat lip, and getting jumped from behind. Pretty boring year for him. 8. Matt Kenseth- So consistent. So effective. Needs a little more out of the cars from JGR but impressive. 9. Jeff Gordon- As much as Jeff has been through, Hurricanes, Tornadoes, Old Age this guy finds himself in the Top 10 in points. Who knew? 10. Denny Hamlin- Has laid off the heroin lately, seems to be doing okay. 11. Jamie McMurray- Can Jamie make the chase for the first time in his career? Of course he will. 12. Ryan Newman- Take away that unreal penalty and he is up in the Top 10. Still has been invisible this year. 13. Carl Edwards- 2 Top 10's. As many as Danica Patrick. Shows speed and then fades throughout the race. Kind of like his whole career in a nutshell. 14. Kasey Kahne- Cookie cutter Kahne. Mr. 15th Place. He'll have his one dominant performance a year and get in the chase. 15. Kyle Busch- Fast but crashing like it's going out of style. Typical Kyle. Still gotta respect the M&M's. 16. Paul Menard- Meh. 17. Kyle Larson- Something is missing this year. He needs cars that don't handle well and needs to be pampered with. These new NASCAR changes should make Kyle a happy man. 18. Aric Almirola- Smithfield Bacon. Yuuummmm. 19. Clint Bowyer- Having a Michael Waltrip type season. That's not a compliment. 20. Casey Mears- 21st in the standings. Gotta give it up to him. He's having his best season in 6 years. 21. Greg Biffle- Still has the talent. But when you're driving Freddy Flintstones automobile you're gonna have a bad time. 22. Danica Patrick- She still brings in the paycheques eh? 23. Austin Dillon- New crew chief eh? How bout some new Silver Spoons as well. 24. A.J. Allmendinger- Gotta new 5 year contract recently? Well I know who I can pencil in as the 25th place finisher for the next 5 years. 25. Tony Stewart- No broken bones, check. No court cases, check. No Donuts, ahhhh who am I kidding. 26. Sam Hornish Jr.- If NASCAR's new rules package involves removing all sheet metal, this guy has a chance! 27. Trevor Bayne- That's right haters, I finished 9th. Better yet, I'm still employed! 28. Ricky Stenhouse Jr.- Danica drives during the week. Last year I did all the driving and we've saved over $1000 in car repairs alone! 29. David Ragan- You can give me any car in the field, and I'll bring her home 30th... 30. Cole Whitt- Has completed the 13th most laps of anyone this season. Yeah, you don't have to check, just trust me. 468. racefangurl posted: 06.16.2015 - 11:37 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) If a driver's average finish is better than his average start, does it count for anything? Like is it the mark of a real racer? I think so. What do you guys think? 469. The Long Shot posted: 06.17.2015 - 12:05 am Rate this comment: (2) (0) "If a driver's average finish is better than his average start, does it count for anything? Like is it the mark of a real racer? I think so. What do you guys think?" Depends on the actual numbers. If someone's average start is 6.7, but his average finish is 3.2, I'd say, "okay, that's pretty damn good". But if, say, it's Trevor Bayne, whose average start is 30.9 (shit) and average finish is 26.5 (meh-to-shit), I'm not going to be impressed because even if his average start is positively putrid, its still a crap average finish. 470. Spen posted: 06.17.2015 - 5:55 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) NRF: You mentioned your "falling out" with EFR. Where exactly on the site can I find that discussion? 471. Hinch5 posted: 06.17.2015 - 6:18 pm Rate this comment: (1) (4) I shouldn't do this, but to address the multiple people who have asked, the issue at EFR happened in offsite private discussions with folks I shall not name. 472. Eric posted: 06.17.2015 - 6:47 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) racefangurl, I'm going farther to longshot's point of drivers that have a better finishing average than a starting average. I put a lot of stock into finishing position over starting position, but that doesn't really matter if the driver averages a 20th to 26th place finish. Some of my favorite drivers that I been a fan actually race better than they qualifying like Matt Kenseth and Dale Sr. Dale Earnhardt Sr. back in 2000 averaged around a 21.1 starting spot average, but had a finishing average of 9.4. When a driver has a huge difference in average like that, it tells you a lot on the driver and the team like in Dale Sr.'s case. Dale was never a great qualifier,but his last 4 full seasons in cup were his worst as a qualifier as a full time cup driver. That meant the qualifying skill is on decline, but it doesn't matter for a driver that always been a hard charger. 473. Seibaru posted: 06.17.2015 - 6:58 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Ah, EFR, what are we going to do with you... 474. Nathan8848 posted: 06.17.2015 - 8:41 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Truex's victory is the 5th driver to record their victories with different teams, joining Morgan Shepherd, Joe Nemechek, Brian Vickers and Bill Blair. Also, all 3 of Martin's victories have been in June. 475. ORIGINAL suomynonA posted: 06.17.2015 - 9:11 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Truex's victory is the 5th driver to record their victories with different teams, joining Morgan Shepherd, Joe Nemechek, Brian Vickers and Bill Blair. Also, all 3 of Martin's victories have been in June." I think you're a week late. 476. Racing Outcast1985 posted: 06.17.2015 - 9:14 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Spen is there any chance that you will do the Latfordization of the 1959 Season sometime in the near future 477. Spen posted: 06.17.2015 - 10:21 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) I'd certainly like to. I've already got about half the races done, but all the numbers are on my old laptop. And my old laptop died last year. I'm hoping to salvage the files from it one of these days, when I get a bit ahead. Plus, I'm kinda busy these days, what with the new baby and all, so it's not exactly my number one priority right now. But it'll get done, eventually. 478. The Long Shot posted: 06.17.2015 - 10:52 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) "Plus, I'm kinda busy these days, what with the new baby and all, so it's not exactly my number one priority right now." Congrats! That's awesome. 479. racefangurl posted: 06.17.2015 - 11:32 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) June must be Truex's lucky month lol. 480. Sean posted: 06.18.2015 - 2:14 am Rate this comment: (1) (0) I saw my name mentioned a few times so I had to acknowledge it and post some stuff. Hey. I went backwards up the thread and responded to a bunch of things. I have a full-time job working in a call center for the deaf and hard of hearing right now with wildly irregular hours that can be everything starting from (9-3:30) to (5:30-midnight) on any day of the week including holidays, and I've been trying to do more of my own work on my own site as well as my Racermetrics columns, which means less time here... Besides even that, I also tend to enjoy tournament Scrabble culture more than racing culture (not that I'm any sort of insider like Hinch is at all...I don't even know why trackforum lists me as one...just because I got a sports car driver or two to retweet or like a couple of my Racermetrics articles?) And lately I'm just more inclined to read all sorts of random stuff on whatever topic rather than writing. "If a driver's average finish is better than his average start, does it count for anything? Like is it the mark of a real racer? I think so. What do you guys think?" No. Average finish is an overrated measure of performance for the same reason NASCAR's points systems are. To get a good average finish, avoiding bad finishes is more important than earning good ones, and bad luck creates elements that have nothing to do with the driver in determining the average finish. Mark Martin had the best average finish three times in Cup, but was never the best driver. People have been saying drivers like Ernie Irvan and Geoff Bodine were overrated for years because their average start was better than their average finish when their aggressive styles just did not lead to good average finishes. Felix Sabates at the 1991 spring Talladega race said that "Irvan was in a better car than he is a driver" and used this argument as his evidence, never mind that Morgan-McClure never won before he got there. I understand Sabates was pissed because Irvan caused a wreck that injured Kyle Petty, but Irvan took a second-rate team and elevated it to a borderline powerhouse almost singlehandedly. You have to judge the overall record. What I will agree with is qualifying is basically irrelevant on ovals (I'm constantly shocked seeing footage of old NASCAR races from the mid-'90s or earlier where they'd go on about how you HAVE to start in the top ten to win...this really was never true, it's just that there were so few fully-funded teams that the same teams that finished well invariably qualified well...whenever a top driver started badly for whatever reason, the top driver would ALWAYS move quickly to the front). Qualifying is irrelevant at least in a series that has lots of cautions so that you can have a strategy gamble and come from anywhere to win in any race. Qualifying probably did mean more in past decades when NASCAR had fewer cautions, but it never mattered much. No, I wouldn't automatically rate a driver who gained positions on average higher than a driver who lost positions on average, all else equal. There are much more important aspects to a driver's record. "Truex's victory is the 5th driver to record their victories with different teams, joining Morgan Shepherd, Joe Nemechek, Brian Vickers and Bill Blair. Also, all 3 of Martin's victories have been in June." Blair > Shepherd > Truex > Nemechek > Vickers "Keselowski had a "fluke" gas mileage win at Kansas in 2011 and that kick started his run to the top." I would not say that. I would say his win at Pocono where he overcame an injury to outduel Kyle Busch and caused Kyle to drive so hard in response that he spun out is when he first showed signs of star power. The Talladega 2009 and Kansas 2011 flukes were pretty meaningless. The Pocono win made me stand up and take notice. "A top-10 is a top-10, no matter why, as far as points go." That's true, but when evaluating talent, determining how each finish was obtained DOES matter, because it will predict whether somebody will get top tens in the future. I kind of feel Bayne never really got a fair shake since he won the Daytona 500 for the Wood Brothers, was expected to go to Roush for Cup and only finally arrives there when they're circling the drain and after he's been diagnosed with MS. As a result of all that, I don't think he'll ever be competitive but if he'd gotten the Roush ride right after his Daytona 500 win he might have been at least as competitive as Ragan or something. It was bad timing mostly. "Gordon fans, i'm afraid I've got some bad news..." I don't think he's going to win this year. He doesn't seem to have the fire anymore, but at least he's not embarrassing himself like Tony Stewart is. "The biggest problem I have with the Chase waiver thing is that literally everyone who has missed races has been granted the waiver. They make it seem like anyone can just miss a ton of time and then come back and run for a championship. At this rate, freaking Mark Martin is gonna come back and be a "title contender"." I'd rather see both Busch brothers in than Paul Menard, Aric Almirola, Kyle Larson, and/or Danica Patrick, and those all stand a chance of happening if the Busches weren't allowed in. Besides, the Gibbs cars are not particularly dominant. I don't think Kyle's going to win anyway. Kenseth and Edwards both needed to get pretty lucky to win. Regardless of whether you like or dislike Kyle, I think most of us can agree he's been generally unlucky in addition to bringing some of it on himself. And if Martin couldn't win in the 2012 MWR cars when they made all their drivers look better than they were (although maybe Truex is making me rethink that now, but I've got to say Truex seems too good to be true and I hope we don't find out his new crew chief has been cheating, but unfortunately it would not surprise me...) he would be unable to win now. 481. Sean posted: 06.18.2015 - 2:14 am Rate this comment: (1) (1) "Like I said a few weeks ago, I can't help but get the feeling that the NASCAR HoF is just going to be the same as the Rock and Roll HoF...media/critical darlings constantly getting inducted while others have to wait ages through year after year of being snubbed before they FINALLY get in (if at all)." With inducting five NASCAR figures a year, they're going to get everybody important pretty quickly I daresay...probably by a decade from now if the NASCAR HoF still exists there will be no more significant snubs. With something like the RNRHoF it just depends on what you value and what you think it should be (influence, innovation, commercial success, longevity, whatever...) that can lead you in a variety of different directions. Critics do like to hate on genres that are eventually redeemed but I do think there's a reason why most acts are critically acclaimed. I don't think you can criticize the RNRHoF for having too many undeserving acts. It's snubbing certain acts/genres unfairly, but it's not inducting too many unreasonable acts considering they considered soul, R&B, and rap descendants of rock & roll from day one, which I think is inarguable whether you like those genres or not. It's probably too exclusive because it excludes acts in genres that baby boomer critics don't like (prog rock/heavy metal/anything synthesized) but I wouldn't criticize that for media darlings getting inducted. The NASCAR HoF is a better case for that, with Terry Labonte getting in when Smokey Yunick and Holman-Moody aren't even on the ballot, which is ridiculous. "So does anyone else think Keselowski is already a lock for the Hall of Fame? I mean he already has 50 wins and 2 championships in the three national series and has had some success owning a team in the Trucks. Personally I think that's enough to get him in." Yeah. If he continues at anything comparable to his current pace, he's in. If he has some sort of career-ending injury (God forbid), he's in (in a what-could-have-been case). The only way he doesn't get in is if he has a sudden unexpected career fall-off like Bobby Labonte did and I just don't see that happening. "Yes, but only because the NASCAR Hall of Fame is an utter joke." The order they're inducting people is wrong but the choices themselves aren't. It's actually similar to the RNRHoF. As much as I hate people like Bruton Smith and Ray Evernham, I won't go against their eventual inductions, except that I think they were/will be too soon. "Austin Dillon = Ward Burton type career minus the daytona 500 win Ty Dillon = Sterling Marlin Type Career minus the Daytona 500 wins" Neither of them will ever be as good as Ward or Marlin, and I think most fans overrate Ward and Marlin... "Michigan used to be one of my most hated tracks on the circuit next to Pocono, but the last 4 or 5 years has had some great racing! I know the repaving has something to do with it for the last couple of years." Michigan is a great track and it only really sucked when NASCAR's aero rules destroyed the raceability of the cars on ALL intermediates. I don't think the intermediate tracks really sucked...it's just they were introduced at the same time that the aero rules had turned the racing to garbage on those sort of tracks... "Wouldn't be surprised to see Michigan become a plate track at some point in the future..." I hope not. "Am I the only one happy to see Audi finally lose in Le Mans? Their corporate stablemate Porsche won, and that made me very happy." It made me happy, even though my primary rooting interest was Jordan Taylor (both of my two absolute favorite drivers Taylor and Newgarden won on Sunday and I still can't feel any joy about it really...) I still haven't watched it yet but I have it on tape and I'll probably watch this weekend with less current racing. I was surprised to see Hulkenberg even entered at Le Mans since I thought F1 teams didn't LET their drivers race anything else (it was like an unwritten rule or something). No wonder they actually won then, since he's considered one of the most underrated F1 drivers right now and sports car racing tends to be largely dominated (certainly not entirely) by open-wheel washouts. "24 years of Internet usage" Talk about old school. I never even used the Internet until 1994. "As far as I'm concerned, there was no 2014 champion, and there won't be a legitimate champion anytime soon it seems." Disagree. The 2014 format was actually a slight improvement over the previous format in my view, but no chase would be a massive improvement over either. I didn't find Hinch's farewell post as offensive as it seems others did. While I don't see why he thinks '80s and '90s NASCAR aren't classic and why he thinks the talent of today's drivers can't compare to the talent of past drivers because of modern creature comforts and gimmicks, I've never denied his knowledge either (his racing history knowledge certainly trumps mine, since I've always been way too scatterbrained jumping from one thing to another) but I do personally try to rate all eras equally in evaluating racing talent, but definitely NOT in evaluating the quality of the racing product. 482. Sean posted: 06.18.2015 - 2:30 am Rate this comment: (2) (0) Also, I've been reading Greg Fielden's "Forty Years of Stock Car Racing" books between calls at work on and off the past several months and while his writing and editing style irritates me somewhat (calling drivers "speed artists" on numerous occasions, emphasizing "sanctioning NASCAR" instead of just NASCAR very often, a lot of typos and several instances where the statistics he mentions in his text don't match the box scores) the anecdotes are great and still make it worth reading. Even though I've owned these books for 7+ years now, I've only skimmed through them sometimes and this is the first time I've gone through them thoroughly (I'm through the 1974 season right now). I never knew NASCAR attempted to challenge AAA's dominance in the roadside maintenance business, but in the '50s, they actually did. As much as we may whine about corporate teams shutting the little guys out, shoddy points systems, poorly officiated races, and the like, really that's what NASCAR has been like for ITS ENTIRE HISTORY. I don't think there are really more poorly officiated races now than in the decades I'm currently reading honestly (and it seems like Bobby Allison got the short end of the stick as far as controversial races are concerned for almost the entire '70s, which is causing me to greatly increase my rating of him). Although Junior Johnson gets credit for discovering drafting in the 1960 Daytona 500, it appears from the Fielden books that it was actually Joe Weatherly at the '59 Firecracker 250 (he just didn't win). I didn't know that the Firecracker 250 was originally supposed to be a USAC IndyCar race until the race was canceled after George Amick's death on the last lap in the only USAC race at Daytona. I particularly enjoyed reading about the johnny-come-lately robber barons who entered and left after a few years. I already knew a bit about M.C. Anderson, Warner Hodgdon, and J.D. Stacy (man, those guys were creepy) but did not know about Larry LoPatin. As much as people heroize Bill France, I actually find most of his quotes from the '50s/'60s to be freaking creepy. I think NASCAR likely peaked throughout the entire Bill France, Jr. period which was an improvement over his dad's reign before Helton and Brian France slowly ruined it. I'd now definitely add some drivers from this period including Tommy Irwin and especially Friday Hassler for consideration for 'best driver to never win a race in Cup' (even though Hassler did relief-drive a winning entry once), but I'm afraid I can't agree with Hinch on the John Sears/Neil Castles types who consistently got top 5s/top 10s many laps off the pace. From the Fielden books, I don't really get a sense that THEY would have been any sort of force in a factory ride. James Hylton/Elmo Langley/Wendell Scott/Tommy Irwin/even G.C. Spencer, probably (and they're not the only ones), but Castles/Sears/Jimmy Means/J.D. McDuffie? I have a hard time seeing those guys as stars even in a premier ride. But yeah, they're great reads, even though a lot of Fielden's phrases admittedly make me cringe. 483. joey2448 posted: 06.18.2015 - 3:51 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Holy cow. Dude, Sean, I love reading your stuff, but man is it time-consuming haha! :) 484. The Great Dave posted: 06.18.2015 - 8:25 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "I think NASCAR likely peaked throughout the entire Bill France, Jr. period which was an improvement over his dad's reign before Helton and Brian France slowly ruined it" Like most Motorsports, I think NASCAR peaked in the mid 90s, but then like most motorsports NASCAR ran into streak of poor management. But NASCAR was able to at least avoid what befell IMSA and CART and didn't split. This is part of why I think they became popular for casuals in the first place during the mid-00s. 485. Spen posted: 06.18.2015 - 12:39 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Sean: I agree on Sears (basically he was the sixties version of Ted Musgrave; quite consistent, but couldn't find victory lane with a road map). But Castles, while nowhere near legendary, had enough good runs in his own outfit to make me think he could have become a decent driver given the opportunity. Say, about a Charlie Glotzbach level. 486. Spen posted: 06.18.2015 - 6:24 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) And while I'm on the subject of people who drove the #4, while I agree that Ernie made Morgan-McClure better, there are two other factors to look at. One: the team switched from Oldsmobile to Chevrolet early in Ernie's run, and two: Rick Wilson was a severe underperformer. That team was more than capable of running top 12 in '88 and '89, Wilson was just holding them back. The fact that a guy who was outperformed by 55-year old Richard Petty, Morgan Shepherd, Joe Ruttman, Wally Dallenbach, Dick Trickle and Bobby Hillin (!), was able to run somewhat competitively in the #4, to me indicates just how good MMM really was. 487. Sean posted: 06.18.2015 - 6:58 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) True, he did lead the most laps in the 600 and lose that photo finish to Bill Elliott in the Firecracker 400 and they already did have Runt Pittman engines then. That indicates their engines were indeed likely pretty good then. A lot of drivers could have won restrictor plate races for them. Irvan and Marlin were better restrictor plate racers than the vast majority of drivers so they won a bunch, but if Wilson got that close, probably quite a few even mediocre drivers could have won for them on the plate tracks at least pre-Irvan. I don't know what to make of Rick Wilson winning that Bristol "legends" race and I also don't really understand why Bobby Hamilton was never competitive on the plate tracks in the #4 (did Pittman retire as an engine builder after '97?) 488. racefangurl posted: 06.18.2015 - 10:24 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) Cjs was a long post writer. Maybe if we talk about him, he'll do a Sean. hehe 489. Chives5150 posted: 06.19.2015 - 4:31 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Was the reason why Rick Wilson raced in the Legends Shootout solely based on his 1989 Busch Series win at Bristol? Don't get me wrong, it's still cool for him to win the thing, but I'm perplexed as to why he was in the race. I don't know nearly as much about Rick Wilson's career as most of y'all, so I'm just wondering. 490. kevin20fan posted: 06.19.2015 - 11:13 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) @489 Yes, if I remember correctly that Legends race was specifically for past Bristol winners. 491. dennyfan11 posted: 06.19.2015 - 3:34 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I think Ernie Irvan is a great driver! Though he wasn't one of the 90s top drivers,and never contended for the championship except for in 1994. i think he was a strong second tier driver. He had probably the best ever season for the D.K Ulrich team, and was also solid in MMM. His comeback from his near life-ending injury was also good. Geoff Bodine is also a good, but not great driver. He won at least one race 9 out of 11 years from 1984-1994, and did a good job as an owner driver with 1 car in an era where multi-car teams were becoming the norm. I think both drivers deserve the praise they get. About average performance, it doesn't always determine driving performance, but i think it's a good way of analyzing performance. I mean, Ernie Irvan and Geoff Bodine were good, but not top drivers, and their avg. finish doesn't say anything against it. Also, most top drivers have good average finish. I don't know any who didn't. 492. racefangurl posted: 06.19.2015 - 4:24 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Irvan's nickname, Swervin' Irvan and his injury and comeback are most on my mind when I think of the guy. Any time a driver comes back from something can potentially bring in Irvan comparisons, IMO. In 2011, some comment on some site mentioned a thing like this. 493. anonymous posted: 06.19.2015 - 4:32 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Ryan Blamey, Brett Moffitt, and Ty Dillon are NASCARs next stars if they can find big rides. 494. anonymous posted: 06.19.2015 - 4:33 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Chase Elliott hasn't shown his talent yet. He is real good. 495. Chives5150 posted: 06.19.2015 - 7:27 pm Rate this comment: (1) (2) A-Rod taints yet another cherished and prestigious baseball record. 496. racefangurl posted: 06.20.2015 - 12:40 am Rate this comment: (0) (1) 493, I take it you mean Ryan BLANEY and I believe he and Chase will almost definitely be great, if circumstances fall right. However, I'm unsure of Brett Moffit and even if I kind of like him, Ty Dillon. They're on my w(ait) a(nd) s(ee)list 497. Sean posted: 06.20.2015 - 1:18 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "I think Ernie Irvan is a great driver! Though he wasn't one of the 90s top drivers,and never contended for the championship except for in 1994." Depends on how many drivers you count as top, doesn't it? I agree he is nowhere near Dale Earnhardt, Jeff Gordon, or Rusty Wallace, but I think there's an argument for him as equal or better than anyone else (give him 20 years in a steady ride like Mark Martin had and he'd have had similar success I think, for instance). If by top you mean "contender for best of the decade", okay, no. But I'd personally rate him 5th or 6th best in the '90s, which I would count as top. 5th and 6th is between Jarrett and Irvan, and I can't really decide. "i think he was a strong second tier driver. He had probably the best ever season for the D.K Ulrich team, and was also solid in MMM. His comeback from his near life-ending injury was also good." I would call a second-tier driver somebody like Sterling Marlin, Clint Bowyer, Kyle Petty, Dave Marcis, Jeremy Mayfield, Ward Burton, and so on... But if you believe a first-tier driver is somebody capable of having the best season multiple times which I'm not sure Irvan was, then I guess we don't disagree. But second-tier for either Irvan or Bodine sounds like an insult (especially if you try to argue Terry Labonte is on a higher tier as many do just because of his rather undeserved championships). "Geoff Bodine is also a good, but not great driver. He won at least one race 9 out of 11 years from 1984-1994, and did a good job as an owner driver with 1 car in an era where multi-car teams were becoming the norm." He won 10 out of 11 years, actually. I suppose his Hendrick period was a little disappointing actually since Richmond and Waltrip tended to outperform him and he had Harry Hyde and Gary Nelson as crew chiefs, but I look at how he clearly improved on what Terry Labonte did in the #11 car in 1990 and what he did from the Bud Moore team in 1992-93 (when it was clearly slipping), and then what he did as an owner-driver and I would call him great. Also, you contradicted yourself. You said Irvan is great but not top and Bodine is good but not great. If you limit greatness to like 10 or 15 drivers, I'd agree, but please don't list somebody who was consistent with barely more wins as great just because they won a title (like the Labonte brothers). "i think it's a good way of analyzing performance." I'm not saying it's not, but it's not the BEST way, especially if a driver did not have top equipment for much of their career. Bodine and Irvan spent years in poor cars. Earnhardt and Gordon didn't. They were MUCH better drivers, sure, but having rides capable of winning every year certainly helped their averages, did it not? If you want a fairer comparison, just take the years that they were in SERIOUSLY competitive cars and take an average, which for Bodine would be 1984-1994 (regardless of his flukish Watkins Glen win, his team basically did nothing after 1994) and 1990-1997 (or maybe 1998) for Irvan. I bet their average finishes will look a lot better if you consider what they did in competitive cars exclusively. "Also, most top drivers have good average finish. I don't know any who didn't." Junior Johnson didn't. His average finish was 13.5, but bear in mind that the fields were small when he raced. I invented a statistic called percent beat (literally the percentage of drivers each driver competed against in their career and beat). For instance, a driver who competed exclusively in 41-car fields and had an average finish of 21 exactly would have a percent beat of 50.00 indicating perfectly average. This corrects for the major bias that results from average finish as a statistic when comparing drivers in the '50s/'60s (who invariably have better average finishes because they usually competed against smaller fields), but I'll admit it creates new biases. For instance, Darrell Waltrip was terrible in his latter seasons and those seasons happened to have more cars per race than those in his prime, making him appear much worse than he really was. I still think this is an improvement over average finish as a statistic, and it also shows why average finish can be a fallacy. If I show you the order of the percent beat list, a lot of it makes sense but there are a LOT of mediocre drivers who seem to be way too high and a LOT of great drivers who seem to be way to low. Once I copy and paste this for you, you'll see what I mean. 498. Sean posted: 06.20.2015 - 1:25 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) All time percentage of cars beat for each driver (i.e. average finish converted to a common scale independent of how many cars were in each race) Lee Petty 75.30 Jimmie Johnson 74.10 Dick Hutcherson 73.96 Dale Earnhardt 73.42 Jeff Gordon 72.31 Tim Flock 71.99 Rex White 71.96 Herb Thomas 71.19 Tony Stewart 70.09 Carl Edwards 69.85 Bobby Allison 69.60 David Pearson 69.47 Kevin Harvick 69.11 Ned Jarrett 68.94 Matt Kenseth 68.77 Joe Weatherly 68.37 Richard Petty 68.07 Mark Martin 68.03 Denny Hamlin 67.22 Marvin Panch 67.09 Cale Yarborough 67.03 Clint Bowyer 66.92 Rusty Wallace 66.02 Fred Lorenzen 65.96 Kyle Busch 65.86 Lloyd Dane 65.85 Brad Keselowski 65.83 Dale Earnhardt, Jr. 65.01 Dick Rathman 64.89 Davey Allison 64.81 Eddie Pagan 64.56 Greg Biffle 64.24 Ryan Newman 64.04 Bobby Isaac 63.55 Joey Logano 63.53 Kyle Larson 63.34 Glen Wood 63.15 Fireball Roberts 62.94 Jeff Burton 62.89 Speedy Thompson 62.53 Buck Baker 62.50 Fonty Flock 62.32 James Hylton 62.16 Billy Wade 62.15 Darrell Waltrip 62.08 Benny Parsons 62.07 Bob Welborn 62.00 Pete Hamilton 61.88 Kurt Busch 61.48 Kasey Kahne 61.28 Bill Elliott 60.80 Jack Smith 60.35 Tim Richmond 60.21 Jim Paschal 60.20 Martin Truex, Jr. 60.16 Ricky Rudd 60.06 Terry Labonte 59.72 Dale Jarrett 59.68 Paul Goldsmith 59.53 Gwyn Staley 59.44 Harry Gant 59.25 Jimmy Massey 59.22 Darel Dieringer 59.04 Alan Kulwicki 58.69 LeeRoy Yarbrough 58.50 Emanuel Zervakis 58.09 Ernie Irvan 58.08 Donnie Allison 57.78 Jamie McMurray 57.76 Cotton Owens 57.41 Gober Sosebee 57.32 Buddy Baker 57.31 Neil Bonnett 57.14 Bill Blair 56.94 Jim Reed 56.91 Jody Ridley 56.64 Joe Millikan 56.55 Junior Johnson 56.04 Bobby Labonte 55.38 Juan Pablo Montoya 55.17 Joe Eubanks 54.97 Curtis Turner 54.72 Austin Dillon 54.71 J.T. Putney 54.64 John Sears 54.60 Ron Bouchard 54.60 Ray Duhigg 54.60 Sterling Marlin 54.47 Brian Vickers 54.41 Charlie Glotzbach 54.41 Marcos Ambrose 54.35 Geoff Bodine 54.16 Clyde Lynn 54.03 Dick Brooks 53.87 Larry Thomas 53.87 Billy Myers 53.83 Donald Thomas 53.59 Sam McQuagg 53.52 Friday Hassler 53.02 Elmo Langley 53.01 Paul Menard 53.00 Tiny Lund 53.00 Hershel McGriff 52.86 Frank Mundy 52.49 Worth McMillion 52.24 Lennie Pond 52.10 Richard Childress 52.03 Ted Musgrave 51.99 Larry Frank 51.84 A.J. Allmendinger 51.72 Cecil Gordon 51.70 Johnny Benson, Jr. 51.62 Tommy Irwin 51.46 Jimmy Pardue 51.29 Ken Schrader 51.23 Paul Lewis 51.23 Herman Beam 51.18 Ben Arnold 51.00 Jeremy Mayfield 50.64 Ricky Stenhouse, Jr. 50.62 Jimmie Lewallen 50.54 Morgan Shepherd 50.46 Aric Almirola 50.40 Buddy Arrington 50.20 David Sisco 50.19 Upon reviewing this list, I believe you'll find a *lot* of drivers who will not seem to be in their proper place with regard to the strength of their overall career. To be sure both average finish and percent beat will be *correlated* so that greater drivers will tend to be closer to the front, but it seems that what's more important is not having any bad seasons rather than having truly great ones, and it also seems important to have top-level rides over an entire career, since those drivers who did will invariably be overrated and those drivers who didn't will invariably be underrated. And several drivers who would probably be listed by most fans as above average (Bobby Hamilton, Ward Burton, Kyle Petty, Steve Park, Tom Pistone, A.J. Foyt, Dave Marcis) are below 50% due to too many bad seasons in bad equipment. Consistency DOES matter, but what you do in your best races matters more. This fairly random-seeming list is evidence of that. 499. racefangurl posted: 06.20.2015 - 3:40 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) For Bobby Hamilton's ilk, the best things to do would be find their percent beaten in any years they had better cars. Either that or look at how many drivers in equipment on the same levels as theirs they beat. 500. Spen posted: 06.20.2015 - 4:08 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Regarding Wilson's Bristol win, the only legit legends in the race were Pearson, Yarborough and Gant, all of whom were over 70, and all of whom DNF'd. Wilson was one of the three drivers under sixty in the race, and with Larry Pearson's crash, that left Phil Parsons as the only other driver with a legit shot at winning. So really, Wilson's only real accomplishment was beating a guy who won a plate race 22 years earlier. More of an embarassment for Phil than an achievement for Rick. I'm not sure when Pittman left the team, but I think the thing that really defeated them on the plate tracks with Hamilton was a combination of the new 5-and-5 rule, and the dramatic increase in multi-car teams, which left MMM without any steady drafting partners. Factor in the absolute dominance of ECR engines, and you have a recipe for irrelevance. 501. ORIGINAL suomynonA posted: 06.20.2015 - 4:17 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) ^ a stat such as the above will always be deceiving as it is favorable towards drivers who quit/were fired in the prime of their careers and active drivers, while punishing drivers who stayed in the sport years or decades past their prime for love of the sport. That's why someone like Matt Kenseth can be ahead of Richard Petty (Matt's a good driver, but he shouldn't even be mentioned in the same paragraph as Petty. Petty is obviously in the top 5 all time, while Kenseth probably isn't even in the top 25). Also, it doesn't account for field strength. Any driver who raced during the field filler era was almost guaranteed to beat about 5 drivers every week just by not crashing before the first pit stop. This statistic could be improved by only including seasons within a certain tolerance of a driver's peak and by adjusting field counts so that drivers don't get credit for beating obvious field fillers (although this would probably be a lot of work). 502. Sean posted: 06.20.2015 - 10:49 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Right, I never argued that statistic wasn't deceiving. I greatly prefer dominance-based metrics to consistency-based metrics as we all know. Obviously you would need to correct for equipment strength (almost all the drivers above 65% on percent beat rarely if ever had awful equipment...in fact the only ones I'd say who did were latter-era Petty, early-career Yarborough, and some seasons for Bobby Allison, which is part of why all three of those drivers are much lower than they should be). Also, I agree you would need to adjust for field strength. Since this is reflecting the average talent in the field, I'd say it would be relatively low in the '50s, very high in the early '60s, fairly low in the late '60s to early '80s, high in the late '80s to early '90s, relatively low in the late '90s, and high throughout the 2000s but somewhat lower in the 2010s, but I'd need a way to properly quantify it, and I do have some things up my sleeve in that regard that I have not finished. Yes, you would also need to do a cross-section of a driver's competitive years, and I agree. For instance, Richard Petty's percent beat for 1960-1984 (his competitive years) is 75.21% which pretty much puts him in the same league as anyone. If you count Darrell Waltrip only from 1975-1992 he goes up to 71.61%. So yes, bad seasons are penalized HARSHLY and only including the competitive years and then adjusting for equipment strength would give you a much better idea of overall consistency. I already thought of all these objections to percent beat and haven't really elaborated on them much because I don't really like consistency-based metrics in general but yes, obviously equipment weights, field adjustments (though I think this would be the most minor one), using only the competitive years only, and perhaps some adjustment for drivers who only specialize on one track type (if a driver's standard deviation in terms of consistency between track types is too large, that driver could be docked, but that would be the most complex thing to do). Regardless, yeah, those are all improvements and my main idea here was that displaying my percent beat list demonstrates all the problems that the average finish statistic already has. At least if you're going to attempt to cite average finish, use that list. But I'd prefer not citing unadjusted consistency-based statistics in the first place... 503. racefangurl posted: 06.21.2015 - 11:51 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Average finish for the year means more if they had decent cars. If a driver has a terrible car, they'll have a terrible average finish no matter how good they are. 504. racefangurl posted: 06.24.2015 - 4:21 pm Rate this comment: (1) (11) Some people like road races and think there should be more, but some don't like them. Wanna know what I don't like? Kasey Kahne is going to be a father and they're not even married, him and his girlfriend. He didn't do it right! First comes love, then comes marriage, then comes Sam (his girlfriend's name) with a baby carriage. 505. RichardHead posted: 06.24.2015 - 5:07 pm Rate this comment: (2) (1) Woo, conservative thinking with no coherent evidence! All hail racegurlfan! 506. Scott B posted: 06.24.2015 - 5:20 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Dick Hutcherson 73.96 Really impressive for a guy you don't hear much about, regardless of good equipment/short career. 507. MarkMartinFan posted: 06.24.2015 - 5:21 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) @505, Kasey is going to be a dad. Maybe do your research before mocking someone. 508. Scott B posted: 06.24.2015 - 5:24 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Sean, Have you looked at which drivers had the most dominant single seasons using that "percentage beat" stat? Would be interesting... 509. racefangurl posted: 06.25.2015 - 12:12 am Rate this comment: (0) (2) I saw it on Facebook, "NASCAR baby boom continues" and looked into it by following the article that post linked to. Kasey Kahne and his girlfriend, Sam Sheets, have a baby on the way, according to foxsports.com. There's my evidence. 510. Eric posted: 06.25.2015 - 1:04 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) @505, Marty Smith of ESPN even an article that has Kasey becoming a dad and it means Girlfriend, not wife. Source: http://espn.go.com/racing/nascar/cup/story/_/id/13141895/kasey-kahne-girlfriend-expecting-child-racer-gains-perspective 511. Cornys posted: 06.25.2015 - 1:44 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) "I've honestly been losing the desire to post on here as well as of late. I love this site, and the Webmaster has done and continues to do an amazing job with everything, but there just doesn't seem to be nearly the amount of intelligent debates and great insight that we once had on here. It just seems like now everyone just sensationalizes everything and there's not even an attempt to have any stimulating conversation. Not to mention that some of my favorite posters have either virtually left the site altogether (Paul, DSFF, CJS) or rarely post anymore (David, Sean, Long Shot). "There's still great people here, but I just find myself losing the passion I once had for this place more and more every week. I'll still stick around and comment during some of the races, but lately, I've come to the conclusion that I unfortunately just don't see us ever getting back to our "prime", if you will, when we were having great, intense, but respectful debates most weeks." Great post, Murb. I agree, the NASCAR comments section has turned into a joke, and so has most conversation of NASCAR from the fans, period. Not all of it of course :) I LOVE this site, though :). I want to know how a race was, I read the comments. Having moved to IndyCar, I really enjoy that comments section :) 512. RichardHead posted: 06.25.2015 - 1:59 pm Rate this comment: (3) (0) That's not what I meant racefangurl. I want evidence to PROVE that by having a child before marrying is the "wrong way" to do it. I want facts that cover every single aspect of "wrong" that you can possible have. Show me that this traditionalist conservative view is correct. Prove it to me. There will probably be some out there. But it's just an opinion. And at the end of the day, it's his family, and he can do whatever he wants, why should you (of all people on this website alone) be the one to tell him how he should live his own life. Why do you "hate" it when any other sane family would be pleased to have another member? Would you reject your grandson if he was born before your child and partner married? As for the comments section becoming a joke, I only come on here so I can (try) and shut up the big offenders or at least promote proper debating, as I am here by suggesting that you need evidence before you say anything that's strongly worded. I like to think of myself as the chair/mentor but I know I'm not and am too aggressive for any such role, but at least I have a brain, can word things and use evidence in arguments, and attempt to post constructively, unlike others. I do like some posters though, and recently, as the comments section has come under more and more scrutiny, I feel that these good posters have blossomed. Cheers guys for trying to retain the sanity that somehow still lies within this website. 513. Schroeder51 posted: 06.25.2015 - 2:16 pm Rate this comment: (4) (0) I'm with RichardHead here...WHY is it so wrong for someone to have kids before they get married? There is no law saying you HAVE to get married to have kids. Newsflash...some people just don't WANT to get married. WHY is that wrong? I want some explanation, some reasoning. Personally, I say it's Kasey's and his girlfriend's life; if they want to live it that way, I don't really see a problem. Who am I to decide how two individuals want to live their life? 514. Biscuits In A Red Bull posted: 06.25.2015 - 4:22 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) As it turns out, it's wrong because some people can't cope with other individuals making decisions that they disagree with. And even if someone believes in racefangurls' ideals, they may be open minded enough to also accept that Kahne has made his own choice, and even if it's 'wrong', it's just another pov of life. Hate is a strong word, and used here to promote nothing beneficial and needless ill feeling. Why people get fired up about such things is totally beyond me. Leave some people alone. If you want to do it your way, fine, but accept that others may not want to, and that that is also fine. Again, I find myself championing the open mind. 515. racefangurl posted: 06.25.2015 - 5:02 pm Rate this comment: (0) (3) The reason behind my thinking is I'm a religious person and due to that, I believe premarital sex is wrong. Btw, some drivers did it right. Guess I'll leave my personal beliefs and opinions at the door here. Unless they're my opinions about racing things. 516. Biscuits In A Red Bull posted: 06.25.2015 - 5:14 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) That would be fine if you didn't write 'hate.' Not allowing others to express different views is tyrannical and oppressive, for want of slightly less extreme terms. 517. The Long Shot posted: 06.25.2015 - 6:05 pm Rate this comment: (2) (0) "That would be fine if you didn't write 'hate.' Not allowing others to express different views is tyrannical and oppressive, for want of slightly less extreme terms." Nope, I'd say those are more than fair terms to use. I have no sympathy for those who discriminate against others, whether it's for "holy" reasons or not. (And at any rate most religious people would disagree with racefangurl's outdated position on premarital sex.) 518. Schroeder51 posted: 06.25.2015 - 6:15 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Nope, I'd say those are more than fair terms to use. I have no sympathy for those who discriminate against others, whether it's for "holy" reasons or not. (And at any rate most religious people would disagree with racefangurl's outdated position on premarital sex.)" This is exactly how I feel. I am not a religious person myself, but I can tolerate and respect the religious (so long as they don't try to proselytize me...I cannot STAND it when people try to force others into believing the same things they do). If it gives meaning to people's lives, then I don't have a problem with that. What I DO have a problem is with people who use their beliefs as justification and reason to discriminate and hate on other people. It amazes me that in this day and age we STILL have a lot of very close-minded people who aren't open in the slightest to changes of any sort in our culture. 519. Eric posted: 06.25.2015 - 8:58 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) My own thought on Kasey Kahne is one that isn't in my business. What Kasey is doing is different than what Travis Henry, and Shawn Kemp as an example did as an example. Kasey didn't go around and tried to make every woman known to mankind pregnant unlike those 2. I am sure no NASCAR sponsor wants a person who does stuff like making 11 different woman pregnant and has child support problems. For those who don't know, Travis Henry was an NFL Player is a father to 11 kids by making 10 different woman pregnant. Travis Henry has a history of Child Support problems matter of fact by the amount of kids he has to pay child support to. 520. Eric posted: 06.25.2015 - 9:23 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I meant to type "What Kasey is doing is different than what Travis Henry, and Shawn Kemp as an example" instead of typing "What Kasey is doing is different than what Travis Henry, and Shawn Kemp as an example did as an example". 521. Biscuits In A Red Bull posted: 06.26.2015 - 3:32 am Rate this comment: (1) (1) TLS and Schroeder, I agree completely with your views but feel that my terms are a bit extreme for a comment posted on the internet, but they describe a lot of people's actions perfectly in these 'debates' Overall Imo it is outdated and needless but I can see why people would think it's alright for reasons outside of the holiness and all that - family harmony, etc And Schroeder, welcome to human society. Some people are just inherently not nice. 522. Tyler posted: 06.26.2015 - 9:17 am Rate this comment: (4) (2) Plenty of evidence out there that shows couples who wait until marriage to have sex divorce less, have happier marriages, and even have higher IQs. Of course, if one is not family-oriented and has no intention of marrying, then that's all a moot point. Some statistics, if you're interested: http://waitingtillmarriage.org/category/statistics/ I agree with racefangurl's position, just not the way she handled it. She should have handled it in a non-judgmental way, aka not saying anything. BUT, just so everyone knows, replying to her comments by saying her view is unnecessary or outdated is no more virtuous than her initial comments about Kahne. It blows me away how many people think it's okay to respond to judgment with more judgment. At the end of the day, most people don't wait anymore because it's inconvenient and uncomfortable. And as true as that may be, it doesn't give anyone the right to counter-bash her viewpoint. Criticize her judgment instead. 523. NascarFan4Ever posted: 06.26.2015 - 10:37 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) After Michigan I think Kyle Busch's chase hopes at done for good especially when we go to Daytona and the night race at Bristol since he wrecked in the last 2 races 524. Biscuits In A Red Bull posted: 06.26.2015 - 11:27 am Rate this comment: (0) (1) Tyler, I may speak for myself here, but I'm calling the view backed up by religious beliefs outdated, not the view based on statistical evidence. Whilst some of those stats are unrelated (how does having a child post-marriage affect the iQ of an individual?), I'm not one bit surprised about that or the fact that couples who have children before marriage end up breaking up more frequently. As for being judgemental, my judgements basically fall into the 'why is it wrong' RichardHead stance, not the 'that's a horribly backwards opinion' stance. Personally I would like any child of mine to be brought into this world with a harmonious family - but that doesn't mean I should impose this view on everyone, and hate those who disagree, nor will I stick to my word to the very end should circumstances not allow me to. That's why I think oppression and tyranny are quite strong words to use here. It may apply elsewhere but not in these circumstances. Nobody actually is being affected. I'm just trying to have a constructive debate whilst adopting my customary 'fence-sitter' stance. That was one long paragraph, so here's a shorter on to ease your brain. 525. Tyler posted: 06.26.2015 - 12:36 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The statistics were for RichardHead. But you did say "Overall IMO" that the position is outdated and needless, which to me alluded to more than just a religious context. You may have meant it that way, but that's not how it came across. RichardHead seemed to be arguging from a non-religious standpoint. In fact, this issue has nothing to do with religion. I've actually ran into quite a few atheists who have waited/are waiting until marriage. It just so happens that many of the people who DO wait are religious, but I think you'll find that many religious waiters use non-religious reasons for their waiting, even if it was their religion that guided them to said choice. Haha, two thumbs down for doing nothing but encouraging people not to judge others. Classic. I sure do love these forums! 526. Anonymous posted: 06.26.2015 - 1:23 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "I'm calling the view backed up by religious beliefs outdated," Thanks for telling everyone we need to know about you, Ms. Hillary Clinton. Times change, and the current viewpoint held by the non-religious changes, but to tell religions to change their core beliefs that they believe are divinely inspired is ridiculous. They believe one thing, and the rest believe another. Doesn't make one wrong or one right, but it is important to not tell the other they're wrong. Secularists want to buckle religion, and religions want to buckle secularism. It's easier to just be reserved on such things, but what we do NOT have here is a debate of any sort, just pointing fingers from both sides. racefangurl, it was dumb of you to start this. The rest of you were dumb to respond to it. Tyler, don't waste your time on either of these groups. 527. Biscuits In A Red Bull posted: 06.26.2015 - 1:42 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Well if a view based in religion corresponds with statistical evidence, then that's great! If it contradicts evidence, then that's when it becomes questionable, and my only issue here is when it comes to imposing your views on others when the truth is ambiguous. racefangurl was using solely religion to back herself up and was saying 'hate' and 'wrong' and stuff with no reason why. That's what RichardHead was getting on I think, and I am also with that. The two correspond and if you read my latest post (which I actually thought through whilst writing :O) then I do contradict some of my points in my earlier posts. That's not because I'm lost inside. It's because I wasn't thinking. I post things without totally thinking then through sometimes, as Mr Anonymous here has very kindly pointed out. I'm trying to appear in my posts to be the fence-sitter, because that's precisely how I feel. And at the end of the day, do I really care deeply about Kahne's family? No. Should I care? Should I have a say? There's a fine line with ethics and morality before it gets too sensitive, and I think we've crossed it. Why it gets sensitive should be the next topic of debate though, because then we can have lovely discussions on human nature and personality! :D And on that note, has anyone bothered to check ISTJ traits? If you want to understand the basics of my standpoint, at least... 528. RichardHead posted: 06.26.2015 - 2:22 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Secularists want to buckle religion" Secularism - The principle of separation and freedom from the 'restrictions' of religion. The principle that political activities should be made free from religious 'bias.' Doesn't sound like buckling religion. Sounds like people want to make decisions and not have the influence of religion as a constant of their lives. There doesn't appear to be ill-feeling, just the desire for greater freedoms, in the foundation of secularism. Whilst some "secularists" may knock down religion as sometimes degenerative, the principle itself has no anti-religion 'bias,' but just a desire for freedom from religion. Call that "anti-religion" if you like, but anti means "against," and this isn't against religion itself, but just the influence of religion in public life. "to tell religions to change their core beliefs that they believe are divinely inspired is ridiculous" Why? What if there is no coherent evidence to back up this 'divine' belief? What if all of the facts that could possibly be gathered suggest it is wrong. What then? Tell them it's fine? Or benefit their lives greatly by (constructively) telling them they're wrong. Not through force or aggression, but through CONSTRUCTIVE EDUCATION. What a wonderful tool education is (when used properly). It's a platform to teach people about what's correct in life, to give them the best possible grounding for later life in general. How can you say that's ridiculous? And I'm not for one moment saying that this applies in this argument, but it certainly applies elsewhere. And this post itself may not fall into the category I am describing but that's because I'm not a good teacher and have a low tolerance for flat out incompetence and ignorance. That doesn't mean that this point shouldn't apply. "It's easier to just be reserved on such things, but what we do NOT have here is a debate of any sort, just pointing fingers from both sides." Debate â?" 'to argue about (a subject), especially in a formal manner' Nope. Doesn't apply here at all. Why? Because, as I constantly point out, nobody can argue. And it seems that everyone is getting very hot headed over this argument, presumably as it stirs up emotions inside oneself that scar every post typed. Some of you may disagree but I think BIARB in his last post (exclusively in that post, I may add) held his cool together better than the rest, and TLS was surprisingly weak with his point. Monsieur Anonymous, you seem to value harmony and togetherness, and cannot tolerate arguing. Therefore everyone who argues about something fairly needless is wrong, especially those who disagree with your standpoint. That's just the conclusion I have come to having read your comment. I may be wrong, but, like any sensible person (self-proclaimed to be sensible, you heard it here first), I can only come to conclusions based on the evidence I have available. Speaking of evidence, cheers Tyler. That's 1-0 to Tyler everyone. Actual factual evidence (still not sure how iQ comes into it directly, but I guess if you're smart you try and get a family situation as harmonious as possible for your child to grow up in for their benefit as well as your own, which makes logical sense as it would benefit their mental health and presumably increase their learning capacity and self-esteem â?" just guesses so feel free to shoot me down with some actual facts) Anyway, that's me done. Please feel free to argue properly and don't let emotions take control of your posts when the emotions experienced are downright pathetic! Keep calm and start debating! 529. The Long Shot posted: 06.26.2015 - 4:25 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Not sure what point I was making in RichardHead's eyes, at least regarding Kahne and his girlfriend. While I personally would wait until marriage before procreating, I'm fine with what he does, provided that they both work together to care for the child. My point was regarding racefangurl's conduct, which whether intentionally harsh or not, I firmly believe was unacceptable. There's no stats or evidence I can produce to corroborate that view. It's merely a question of common sense. To say someone is "wrong" for holding a viewpoint that is not harming others and has no impact on you is, well, wrong. There's no other way to say it. And if someone has an opinion or says something offensive, judgement or discriminatory about someone that doesn't affect them at all (as racefangurl did earlier), I have every right to call them out on it. Don't like it? Then don't be a douche in the first place. (Not a shot at Tyler here: his points were at least respectful to Kahne and well-made.) 530. racefangurl posted: 06.26.2015 - 9:08 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) ISTP was the race car driver type (I checked back to when the topic first came up) and they are said to be "Reserved, Utilitarian, Pragmatic, Expedient, and Autonomous." That site also said "resourceful tacticians, with a knack for taking in and retaining data of a technical nature. They enjoy tasks that involve working with and mastering the use of tools. They excel at on-the-spot troubleshooting and decision-making." Btw, I never said hate, it was "don't like". But my beliefs say hate the sin, not the sinner. Over and out on my religious views in regard to premarital sex. 531. Sean posted: 06.26.2015 - 11:54 pm Rate this comment: (2) (0) "Sean, Have you looked at which drivers had the most dominant single seasons using that "percentage beat" stat? Would be interesting..." Well, that measures consistency, not dominance, but here are all the drivers with 10+ starts and 80%+ percent beat: Marvin Panch - 1963 - 91.10 Richard Petty - 1971 - 90.36 Richard Petty - 1972 - 90.18 Cale Yarborough - 1977 - 89.83 Fireball Roberts - 1958 - 89.16 Jeff Gordon - 1998 - 88.82 Bobby Allison - 1972 - 88.46 Lloyd Dane - 1957 - 87.16 Dale Earnhardt - 1987 - 86.72 Tim Flock - 1955 - 86.27 Dale Jarrett - 1999 - 86.27 Richard Petty - 1967 - 86.24 Cale Yarborough - 1978 - 85.38 Bill Elliott - 1988 - 85.22 Mark Martin - 1990 - 85.13 Buddy Baker - 1971 - 85.08 Buck Baker - 1957 - 85.00 Ned Jarrett - 1965 - 85.00 Jeff Gordon - 2007 - 84.92 Kevin Harvick - 2015 - 84.92 (still in progress) Bobby Labonte - 2000 - 84.66 Lee Petty - 1954 - 84.40 Martin Truex, Jr. - 2015 - 84.29 Lee Petty - 1953 - 84.21 Richard Petty - 1979 - 84.14 Rusty Wallace - 1988 - 83.94 Joe Weatherly - 1962 - 83.93 Dick Rathmann - 1954 - 83.90 David Pearson - 1976 - 83.81 Cale Yarborough - 1974 - 83.70 Rex White - 1960 - 83.57 David Pearson - 1968 - 83.42 Richard Petty - 1975 - 83.37 Richard Petty - 1974 - 83.32 Cale Yarborough - 1984 - 83.31 Herb Thomas - 1953 - 83.23 David Pearson - 1973 - 83.20 Bobby Allison - 1981 - 83.10 Bobby Allison - 1983 - 82.68 Dale Earnhardt - 1986 - 82.65 Darrell Waltrip - 1985 - 82.56 David Pearson - 1966 - 82.53 David Pearson - 1972 - 82.41 Darrell Waltrip - 1979 - 82.34 Curtis Turner - 1954 - 82.32 Dale Earnhardt - 1994 - 82.23 Darrell Waltrip - 1981 - 82.17 David Pearson - 1974 - 81.82 Mark Martin - 1998 - 81.82 Terry Labonte - 1996 - 81.77 Kevin Harvick - 2010 - 81.75 Richard Petty - 1970 - 81.71 Bobby Allison - 1970 - 81.48 Bobby Isaac - 1970 - 81.44 Dale Earnhardt - 1990 - 81.16 Pete Hamilton - 1970 - 81.15 Bob Welborn - 1958 - 81.01 Richard Petty - 1977 - 81.01 Dale Earnhardt - 1993 - 80.99 Bobby Labonte - 1999 - 80.88 Mark Martin - 1997 - 80.83 Darrell Waltrip - 1983 - 80.67 Buck Baker - 1954 - 80.65 Benny Parsons - 1977 - 80.33 Dale Jarrett - 1996 - 80.23 Carl Edwards - 2011 - 80.22 Mark Martin - 1999 - 80.11 Ernie Irvan - 1994 - 80.10 Dale Earnhardt - 2000 - 80.04 Lee Petty - 1959 - 80.02 This would not *come close* to my 'best seasons of all time list'. Sure, a lot of them would make it, but as I've said, I rate dominance more than consistency, but if consistency is your bag, those are the most consistent seasons in Cup history in order. 532. Scott B posted: 06.27.2015 - 3:21 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Some interesting results there. The #1 season not resulting in a Championship (not nearly enough races entered by Panch). Bobby Labonte 2000 is higher on the list than I would have expected... you're right about consistency. Richard Petty 1967 WAY LOWER than I would have guessed. Both Richard Petty's and Bobby Allison's 1972 seasons being in the top 10 (3# and #7, respectively). Hard to imagine two drivers rating that high in the same season, but I do remember them both being red hot at the same time (yes, I've been following NASCAR that long). Thanks for posting these. 533. Scott B posted: 06.27.2015 - 3:24 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) ^^^ Also not a lot of seasons from the very early days (1950's) represented. I'd chalk that up to the high rate of mechanical failure DNF's being an equalizer. 534. Avery H posted: 07.21.2015 - 5:32 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Hey Sean, do you run the website race-database.com? I've seen that percentage beat stat on there. 535. Sean posted: 08.21.2015 - 5:53 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Avery, Yes, that is my site. I invented both the average percent led (measure of dominance that corrects for races having a different number of laps led) and percent beat (measure of consistency that corrects for races having a different number of starters) statistics on that site. I have come up with some other advanced statistics since which I have posted either there or on my spinoff site Racermetrics, such as cumulative races led (average percent led times number of starts) which measures career dominance. For cumulative races led, I simply add up percent led for all races. For instance, if a driver leads precisely 10% of ten consecutive races, that amounts to one cumulative race led. My theory is that if drivers are consistent throughout a race, they should be able to dominate equally in any part of a race. Hence, any driver who has more cumulative races led than wins could be considered a choker, while any driver with more wins than cumulative races led could be considered a closer. This is more complicated than that because if a team has a pit crew that makes a lot of mistakes for instance, they can lose races without having done anything wrong, and so on. A true analysis would assess how drivers won and/or lost the race (whether it was based on on-track passes or lead changes in the pits), and I've already started with that in my 'How the Races Were Won' series on Racermetrics. Cumulative races led does totally fit with popular perception of drivers too. Kyle Busch - 35.17 cumulative races led to 33 wins (slight choker, but wildly exaggerated) Kevin Harvick - 26.30 cumulative races led to 30 wins (slight closer, but wildly exaggerated, and I think he's actually been a choker at Stewart-Haas, dominating more than he is winning, even though he's been very consistent) Horrible timing but... Buddy Baker - 34.90 cumulative races led to 19 wins (rather extreme choker considering he overdrove his equipment and had a lot of mechanical problems as a result) Geoff Bodine - 27.12 cumulative races led to 18 wins (also pretty severe) Brad Keselowski - 11.87 cumulative races led to 17 wins (best current closer in Cup...highest ratio of wins to crl among the major drivers in Cup) Jimmie Johnson - 56.57 cumulative races led to 74 wins (second best closer to Brad, but he's been doing it a lot longer) Dale Earnhardt - 76.39 cumulative races led to 76 wins (essentially dominated the races throughout) Cumulative races led corrects for things that seem wrong. Most people would say it seems wrong that Darrell Waltrip has more wins than Dale Earnhardt. I think so too. Dale has 76.39 cumulative races led to Darrell's 63.74, so Dale was a lot more dominant overall than Darrell was, but Darrell I guess kept getting lucky and winning in the end. Perhaps this is a measure of him having stronger teams at his peak. Most recently I invented a season score for measuring the strength of a driver's season, where each driver obtained a score of 0-5 in three categories (winning percentage, consistency (based on percent beat), and dominance (based on average percent led)) resulting in a score of 0 to a perfect 15. 15s are rare - nobody has done this in Cup since Jeff Gordon and Mark Martin both in 1998. I then calculated weighted averages over five years to attempt to measure a driver's ability at that moment in time and contributions to the field, which I will then use to finally begin to measure field strength... I have lots of ideas, but few care. And I'll still admit David Smith was the real groundbreaker since he was the first person to attempt to do advanced racing statistics. In my opinion, to measure a driver's career, you would have to do some aggregate of cumulative races led/percent beat/winning percentage in the driver's superstar period (I defined a superstar as any driver who could sustain a weighted average of 5 on my 0-15 scale for multiple years, and that works out extremely well), and then adjust for equipment strength. There are still other things I care about (versatility, whether a driver made on-track passes themselves or not, intangible aspects such as bringing setup knowledge to a team, which matters more in open wheel series than Cup), but I think I have broken some ground on career evaluations, and I find this stuff way more fun than entering current races on my site, which I usually do long after this site has already entered the same information. 536. Rich posted: 12.15.2020 - 7:26 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Mike Joy, Larry McReynolds and Darrell Waltrip were the commentators. Matt Yocum, Chris Neville and Jamie Little were the pit road reporters. Andy Petree was the in-race analyst. Chris Myers and Michael Waltrip were in the Hollywood hotel. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ *Post a comment:* Your comment may not appear immediately - all comments must be approved by the moderator. Name: Comment: