|| *Comments on the 2015 Hollywood Casino 400:* View the most recent comment <#472> | Post a comment <#post> 1. Big Mac Fan posted: 10.16.2015 - 7:49 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Keselowski wins the pole. Good qualifying efforts for Blaney, Scott, and Biffle This track has basically been a minefield since the repaving so anything can happen. A good run will put you in a position to not have to rely on Dega to reach round 3. 2. Big Mac Fan posted: 10.16.2015 - 7:51 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) And meanwhile McMurray has two awful qualifying runs in a row, starting 28th this week. Unlike a certain poster, I won't try and make excuses for it... 3. racefangurl posted: 10.16.2015 - 7:55 pm Rate this comment: (1) (3) All my top-3 favorite Cup drivers qualified in the top-20, so I don't need to make excuses for the way any of my guys did in qualifying. 4. 02Justin10 posted: 10.16.2015 - 8:04 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Updated 2015 NASCAR Sprint Cup Series Provisional Use Ranking: (Accounts for the 25 qualifying sessions that took place & featured 44 entries or more.) 1.) #23-BK Racing > 21 Provisionals Used 2.) #98-Premium Motorsports > 16 Provisionals Used 3.) #32-Go Green Racing > 15 Provisionals Used (5 DNQs) 4.) #34-Front Row Motorsports > 14 Provisionals Used 5.) #35-Front Row Motorsports > 13 Provisionals Used 6.) #33-Circle Sport Racing > 12 Provisionals Used 7.) #38-Front Row Motorsports AND #46-HScott Motorsports > 11 Provisionals Used 9.) #83-BK Racing > 10 Provisionals Used 10.) #26-BK Racing > 8 Provisionals Used (6 DNQs) 11.) #7-Tommy Baldwin Racing AND #40-Hillman Racing > 8 Provisionals Used 13.) #62-Premium Motorsports > 5 Provisionals Used (19 DNQs) 14.) #13-Germain Racing > 4 Provisionals Used -3 Provisionals: Car #9 -2 Provisionals: Cars #14 and #95 -1 Provisional: Cars #2, #3, #5, #6, #11, #15, #16, #17, #20, #24, #31, #41, #47 and #48. *All in all, at least the slowest car DNQed this week. 5. JG24Ever posted: 10.16.2015 - 8:51 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Nice to see Biffle qualify 12th. I really think that, with the low downforce package next season, he, and his Roush teammates too, will have a good season. 6. racefangurl posted: 10.16.2015 - 8:59 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) There's no where to go but up for Roush, essentially. Well, they could stay as they are, theoretically. They haven't had a win all year, so that's bottom, as far as I'm concerned. 7. Big Mac Fan posted: 10.16.2015 - 9:03 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "so I don't need to make excuses for the way any of my guys did in qualifying." I know. Bayne actually did a good job in qualifying this week, being up there with his teammates. It's just that if he qualified bad, you would find a reason why he didn't do good. And while things look bleak for Roush, they aren't at the bottom. Being a bottom isn't a matter of winning races, but pulling out solid finishes. If Roush can get top 25's this year and if they can keep improving, they could be soon near the top, but I doubt that happens. 8. racefangurl posted: 10.16.2015 - 9:11 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) When I said bottom, I meant their bottom. They're a bigger team and they can't be worse to speak of than they were this year, IMO. There's a history of greatness there and they may be coming up to what they were, more so. As 5 said, maybe they can build on their more decent performance this fall and have a better 2016. 9. Big Mac Fan posted: 10.16.2015 - 9:13 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Ah. Roush has definetly hit a new low this season. 10. 88&4Fan posted: 10.16.2015 - 9:16 pm Rate this comment: (3) (0) Racefangurl I bet there are many teams that would kill to be where Roush is right now. True they aren't winning races and tearing it up right now, but they have three full time cup teams, four full time Xfinity teams (with two high profile future possible cup stars), and secured sponsorship for almost all of those cars. Compare that to a team like Tommy Baldwin Racing or Circle Sport, that can't even crack the top 30 most races and struggles to find full-time sponsorship, I bet they'd love to be where Roush is right now. 11. Big Mac Fan posted: 10.16.2015 - 9:23 pm Rate this comment: (1) (1) Odd stat, but the average of all of the car numbers in this race is 30.14 12. racefangurl posted: 10.16.2015 - 9:33 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) 9 and 10, I guess I compare Roush 2015 to Roush 2012. They were actually good in 2012, but haven't been really a top team since. However with their slight pick-up this fall, they just might emerge from their slump. In various places, people have said things like "Roush is so bad and slow" (a comment I saw from somebody somewhere online during Roush's recent slump years) and compare them to Yates. They have more hope of improvement than the smaller teams, like TBR and Circle Sport. Not that the littler teams are hopeless. I mean look at Martin Truex, Jr.'s current team. It's just that Roush being bigger has more resources than the teams like the ones 10 mentioned, so even though they're (Roush, that is) far from the greatness they knew a few years ago, it's easier for them to improve because of what they have had. 13. MAR posted: 10.16.2015 - 9:52 pm Rate this comment: (1) (1) Roush 2015 some what resembles how bad they ran in 2001 that's the best comparison I can give. 14. racefangurl posted: 10.16.2015 - 10:00 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Like 13 says, they've been down before. But they didn't stay down then and why should now be any different? 15. Big Mac Fan posted: 10.16.2015 - 10:02 pm Rate this comment: (1) (1) 2001 was definetly one of Roush's worst years, but it wasn't entirely bad. 2001 Martin- 0 wins, 3 top 5's, 15 top ten's, 2 poles, avg fn 17.9 Kenseth- 0 wins, 4 top 5's, 9 top ten's, 0 poles, avg fn 18.9 Busch- 0 wins, 3 top 5's, 6 top tens, 1 pole, avg fn 25.5 Burton- 2 wins, 8 top 5's, 16 top ten's, 0 poles, avg fn 15.5 2015 Bayne- 0 wins, 0 top 5's, 2 top ten's, 0 poles, avg fn 25.6 Stenhouse- 0 wins, 1 top 5, 2 top ten's, 0 poles, avg fn 24.6 Biffle- 0 wins, 3 top 5's*, 4 top ten's, 0 poles, avg fn 19.9 *all were pit strategy flukes Roush should just be happy that he is the winningest owner in all 3 series and that he has 2 cup titles, 4 Xfinity (maybe 5), and one truck title along with being an elite team in this sport since the late 80's. Let's face it, Roush isn't getting better, the damage is done, and they have accomplished more than any owner could dream of, besides Rick. 16. Big Mac Fan posted: 10.16.2015 - 10:09 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "why should this year be any different?" The difference was that 2001 was the exception, while 2015 has been the rule. Roush was great in 2000 with Martin, Burton, and Kenseth. After a slump in 2001, Roush won the most races in 2002 with Burton, Busch, Kenseth, and Martin all having great years. Meanwhile 2012 was a great year for Roush, but they've slowly declined since. 2013 they were still fast, but they showed signs of decline. In 2014, they became evident, not running well on their best tracks but still being decent. This year they have been dismal and they aren't getting any better. 17. rw posted: 10.16.2015 - 10:19 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Good to see Will Kimmel in another Cup race! 18. Eric posted: 10.16.2015 - 10:38 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) @16, Jeff Burton didn't have a great year in 2002. I thought Jeff's teammates had very seasons in 2002, but not Jeff himself. Mark, Kurt and Matt's stats went up in 2002, but not Jeff Burton. Jeff started to decline at Roush in 2001 and it got worse each season from there for him. Jeff's stats in 2002 actually was worse than they were in 2001. Jeff in 2001 had 2 wins, 8 top 5's and 16 top 10's with 400 laps led. Jeff in 2002 had no wins for the first time since 1996. Jeff had 5 top 5's and 14 top 10's in 2002. Jeff had a crew chief change during that season. Jeff also had his lowest amount of laps led in a season since 1995. The amount of top 5's Jeff had in 2002 was his lowest since he had 1 in 1995. While Jeff's top 5's and top 10's were good on paper along that 2002 all race segment win, his team was on the decline. Jeff was 12th in points and that was his worst points position since he was 13th in 1996 with the difference of Jeff missing a race early in 1996 instead missing no races in 2002. Jeff's decline with Roush started in 2001 and it got worse from there. I have a hard time to call Jeff Burton's 2002 season a great season a result. 19. Big Mac Fan posted: 10.16.2015 - 10:46 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) While his season wasn't good by his standards, I wouldn't say his season was terrible, which is why I included him in there. And really his decline started in 2002 since he was the lead driver of Roush in an uncharacteristicly down year for the team. 20. Eric posted: 10.16.2015 - 10:53 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I don't think Roush is going emerge in 2016. While Stenhouse has been doing decent since Richmond, Greg Biffle hasn't seen any improvement on raceday. I don't like Trevor Bayne at all. The problem with Stenhouse for 2016 and the 17 team is the rule package change. The team got better under the current rules package and that doesn't mean a thing for next year. Greg Biffle's problem is you are dealing with a 46 year old driver in 2016. That is the age when a driver's prime usually doesn't continue. Bayne's problem is he's simply isn't good enough and his current crew chief isn't helping matters. Bayne's crew chief has a problem that some crew chiefs are prone to have. There are crew chiefs that can't adapt to another driver. 21. racefangurl posted: 10.17.2015 - 11:40 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) 20, there was a comment from somebody besides you that said Bob Osborne uses old Carl Edwards notes, perhaps. And yes, Biffle is an old guy. Ricky has a sprint car background and that may be why he's had a hard time in the Cup, at least before Richmond. 22. BMan0213 posted: 10.17.2015 - 1:47 pm Rate this comment: (3) (0) @21 I HIGHLY doubt Osborne is using notes from when he was with Carl as they were still running the COT back then... Like really you need to stop making excuses for Trevor. He is PART of the problem, not all of it, but some of the blame has to go on him. I know you're a fan of Bayne but seriously can you stop acting like 0% of his problems this year are on him. Sure maybe him and Osborne don't work well together and yeah the equipment at Roush isn't the best, but I highly doubt if you put Trevor in say the 48 car and gave him Chad Knaus as his crew chief he'd start running better and winning races which is what you make it sound like he would do. 23. racefangurl posted: 10.17.2015 - 2:07 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) 22,if he's not all of the problem, then he wouldn't be AS bad if he had a better car and a crew chief he could work with better. What percentage of the problem falls on each of 3, do you think? And how do you think he'd do with a better car and better crew chief chemistry (if you think he and Osborne are a bad pair, that is)? 24. that e-guy posted: 10.17.2015 - 2:22 pm Rate this comment: (4) (0) I feel like every single cup race turns into a Roush discussion board. 25. BMan0213 posted: 10.17.2015 - 2:32 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) @23 You're right he wouldn't be AS bad if he wasn't in a better situation. What i was trying to say though is that you act like he'd be winning multiple races races a year while I (and I think it's safe to say many others as well) disagree. I personally don't think Bayne is anything special. I think his ceiling as a driver would be say a Jamie McMurray type, where he might win a race every so often while putting together decent number, but again I think that is Bayne's ceiling. I feel he's probably gonna fall short of that for a number of other reasons such as running for Roush or possibly his MS. As for his crew chief, I have no idea who you put with him but something needs to change. Osborne IMO lost what made him a good crew chief after he lost the championship with Carl to Tony in 2011. It's pretty much the same thing what happened to Mike Ford after he lost the championship with Denny to Jimmie in 2010. IDK what else to say other than he's damaged goods and he just doesn't have the "fastball" he use to which is what made him a good crew chief. 26. Eric posted: 10.17.2015 - 3:12 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) @21, Sprint car background doesn't explain a thing on why Stenhouse had a hard time in cup before it appears like he's turning the corner starting at Richmond. Stenhouse is either a better driver on a lower level on NASCAR or the equipment at Roush is effecting him before Richmond. I am saying that some of the drivers in the history of NASCAR were successful in cup racing despite having adopt to a different type of vehicle to race on. A.J. Foyt, Tim Richmond, Ken Schrader, Jeff Gordon, Tony Stewart, Ryan Newman, and Kasey Kahne. The jury is still out on Kyle Larson. Foyt, Jeff Gordon, and Tony Stewart from that group are considered legends in racing. Ken Schrader did have a nice career despite only winning 4 cup races. Ken had 8 cup seasons of finishing in the top 10 in points. Kasey Kahne actually does have successful career in cup despite what shown this year due to the fact he has 17 cup wins. Everyone agrees the Ryan has a successful cup career. Tim Richmond had a nice cup career before he got AIDS with 13 cup wins with him having 7 wins in 1986. What happened to Kenny Irwin Jr., J.J. yeley and the late Jason Leffler not being successful in cup despite the success stories of other Sprint car drivers was something else. Kenny Irwin Jr. was rushed into cup after a successful 1997 truck series season and wasn't ready taking over Ernie Irvin's 28 car ride. Kenny had the label of being the next Jeff Gordon. I don't know if it Kenny's talent level for sure due to his death 2000 death. In 2001, Sterling Marlin had a great season and we don't know Kenny could have had a good season as Sterling's teammate. I am saying that because some people claim Dale Jarrett was not a great teammate in 1998 and 1999. J.J. yeley and the late Jason Leffler was a different animal compare to Kenny Irvin Jr. Yeley and Leffler had something that has happened a lot of NASCAR drivers without a Sprint car background in terms of being better in the Busch/Nationwide/xfinity series than in cup. 27. racefangurl posted: 10.17.2015 - 4:06 pm Rate this comment: (0) (5) 25, T-Bayne and Jamie McMurray do have some similarities. McMurray is a Daytona 500 winner, Christian and was a Roush driver. I almost think he might be a daddy, which T-Bayne will be in December. 28. 88&4Fan posted: 10.17.2015 - 4:32 pm Rate this comment: (4) (0) McMurray is a father. And he also has cup wins which aren't flukes, something Bayne doesn't. 29. Big Mac Fan posted: 10.17.2015 - 10:09 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Another thing off topic, but I have to share one of the funniest quotes in recent memory: DW: How do you say "Boogity" in Spanish? JPM: I'm not sure how you say it in English. 30. Big Mac Fan posted: 10.17.2015 - 10:24 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) "I feel like every single cup race turns into a Roush discussion board." That's because there is the same poster who is obsessed with Roush and its driver(s). If it wasn't for that, all of us would care less. McMurray and Bayne do have off the track similarities, which is why I like both of them, but they should never be compared on the track. McMurray at least can contend for wins once and a while and has a much better driving record than Bayne. Saying Bayne will be as good or better than McMurray seems ludicrous imo. Let's just end this Roush discussion so we can move on to normal comments. I'll be honest, I never thought Bayne was that great. The 500 triumph happened with the tandems that are now irrelevant and most people can usually get a lucky plate win like David Ragan, Jimmy Spencer, Michael Waltrip, etc. It doesn't make them better drivers. Winning at a variety of tracks is a mark of a great driver. Bayne then got into the defending two time champion 6 car, and only won once with no top 5 points finishes while Stenhouse won 8 races with two titles. And if Stenhouse can't get it done, how will Bayne? But I see why he has a lot of fans. He was the ultimate underdog story, he has a great personality, he has MS (which I applaud him for still trying), and he is also a religious person so it's obvious he will have a lot of fans, and I like him myself. I just personally think he isn't as great as most people make him out to be. I'm done with this discussion, it happens every race and it accomplishes nothing. Anymore comments about Bayne and Roush equipment will be ignored by me. 31. 88&4Fan posted: 10.17.2015 - 10:35 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) ^NASCAR Nonsense FTW 32. 1995 Subaru WRX STi posted: 10.18.2015 - 11:53 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) This track was repaved what..... 3 years ago? The groove is almost too the wall already. Either it is the surface used or it is the progressive banking but that didn't take long. 33. Chad's Hair Plugs posted: 10.18.2015 - 1:36 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) "This track was repaved what..... 3 years ago? The groove is almost too the wall already. Either it is the surface used or it is the progressive banking but that didn't take long." I'd attribute that to the extreme temperature swings in the Plains throughout the year. 0 to 100 and everything in between. 34. Nathan8848 posted: 10.18.2015 - 2:04 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Dale hasn't won a 1.5 mile race in 10 years at Chicago. That insane. 35. PenskeGuy posted: 10.18.2015 - 2:11 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Recently (in the past 10 years, anyway), a repaved track seems to take 2-3 years to develop new character. That's what makes me nervous every time a good track on the Cup schedule has to be repaved. 36. Nathan8848 posted: 10.18.2015 - 2:14 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) This will be a clean race for the chasers. Maybe 1 will have major trouble. 37. Big Mac Fan posted: 10.18.2015 - 2:15 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Nah. Look at how much trouble it caused last year. 38. MAR posted: 10.18.2015 - 2:17 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Upset pick to win Almirola 39. Ernest T. posted: 10.18.2015 - 2:20 pm Rate this comment: (0) (2) Matt Kenseth will win because he has to. He simply HAS TO!!!! So he will, and his 3 teammates (who can all advance to the next round on points, without requiring a win) will help in any way they can. 40. Big Mac Fan posted: 10.18.2015 - 2:23 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I hope Gordon will at least win one race before he retires. Him not winning in his final season would be a shame. 41. Anonymous posted: 10.18.2015 - 2:23 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Despite what Ricky Craven thinks, the probability than Junior takes any revenge on Edwards today is approximately 1%. But it is nice to think about. :-) 42. Big Mac Fan posted: 10.18.2015 - 2:27 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) For once they didn't do the chase nations commercial. The ad they just did was actually quite good. 43. Big Mac Fan posted: 10.18.2015 - 2:28 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) What's wrong with Edwards? 44. MAR posted: 10.18.2015 - 2:29 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) This is by far the most important chase race. So I'm rooting for a non chaser to spoil it and take the win. 45. Big Mac Fan posted: 10.18.2015 - 2:30 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Is it just me or did a lot of the driver photos in the starting lineup look creepy... 46. Chad's Hair Plugs posted: 10.18.2015 - 2:30 pm Rate this comment: (2) (0) Hey, they showed and announced the entire field. 47. Raheem posted: 10.18.2015 - 2:30 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) GO BIFF! 48. Schroeder51 posted: 10.18.2015 - 2:30 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Despite what Ricky Craven thinks, the probability than Junior takes any revenge on Edwards today is approximately 1%. But it is nice to think about. :-)" Junior is one of the drivers I'd least expect to actually seek revenge on another driver on the track. But then again, this particular Chase format has proven it can make a hothead out of just about anyone... 49. Nathan8848 posted: 10.18.2015 - 2:33 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Another race, another race about the restart talk. 50. Ernest T. posted: 10.18.2015 - 2:33 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Seriously, the JGR juggernaut aside (if that is possible, to put them aside) Keselowski clearly has the car to beat in this one, or so it appears from everything up to now. 51. 88&4Fan posted: 10.18.2015 - 2:34 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Perfect timing! Just got back from watching the beginning of the football games at Buffalo Wild Wings. Now the weekly sunday tradition of my fantasy team on one tab and racingreference on the other. 52. 28DaveyAllison28 posted: 10.18.2015 - 2:34 pm Rate this comment: (2) (0) 33 minutes after the pre-race was over over, the actual telecast came on and the race still hasn't even started yet 53. Schroeder51 posted: 10.18.2015 - 2:35 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Brad is way out in front on lap 2. 54. 88&4Fan posted: 10.18.2015 - 2:35 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Wait a minute... how come Keselowski didn't go to the back? I thought he was supposed to be penalized? Or did I miss something? 55. Big Mac Fan posted: 10.18.2015 - 2:35 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Keselowski pulls away. 56. PenskeGuy posted: 10.18.2015 - 2:36 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) That was a nice throwback to the past in showing the entire starting grid. Keselowski jumps to an early lead. 57. Ernest T. posted: 10.18.2015 - 2:38 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Jeff Gordon momentarily improved his position to 5th, then remembered that he's Jeff Gordon and is falling back in a hurry. 58. 88&4Fan posted: 10.18.2015 - 2:39 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Lolgano is on the move. 59. Nathan8848 posted: 10.18.2015 - 2:39 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Logano is on the move. 60. Schroeder51 posted: 10.18.2015 - 2:40 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) ...Seriously, what the hell is it with NASCAR's instance that driver fanbases refer to themselves as "Nations"?! 61. Chad's Hair Plugs posted: 10.18.2015 - 2:41 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) @54, heard in the pre-race show that the penalty was last pit choice. For the most part, he won't have a clean in or out all day. 62. 88&4Fan posted: 10.18.2015 - 2:42 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) 61- Oh okay, thanks. I was wondering about that. And same with Stewart. 63. Schroeder51 posted: 10.18.2015 - 2:43 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Harvick thinks he's gonna blow up... 64. 88&4Fan posted: 10.18.2015 - 2:43 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) Harvick with an issue. I am SHOCKED!!! *sarcasm* *sarcasm* *sarcasm* 65. Chad's Hair Plugs posted: 10.18.2015 - 2:43 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Possible ISH-SHOE for Harvick. 66. Big Mac Fan posted: 10.18.2015 - 2:44 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) na-tion nÄ?Shen A large aggregation of people united by common decent, history, culture, language, inhabiting a particular country or territory. Yeah I don't know why either. 67. Nathan8848 posted: 10.18.2015 - 2:49 pm Rate this comment: (2) (0) Weekly BK Caution. 68. Big Mac Fan posted: 10.18.2015 - 2:50 pm Rate this comment: (2) (0) Weekly BK caution again! 69. dennyfan11 posted: 10.18.2015 - 2:50 pm Rate this comment: (2) (1) Obligatory BK Caution. 70. Anonymous posted: 10.18.2015 - 2:50 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) Guys, I'm really worried about Dale Jr. I don't think he'll ever win another race again. I mean he hasn't won in an entire 14 races now. His career is over! 71. Schroeder51 posted: 10.18.2015 - 2:50 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Harvick takes the lead as J. J. Yeley slams the wall in between turns 1 and 2. 72. 88&4Fan posted: 10.18.2015 - 2:50 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) Weekly Big Krash Racing caution 73. Lucstar88 posted: 10.18.2015 - 2:50 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) That's a lot of oil that could've been avoided if he didn't come back down. That's a tire failure. 74. Chad's Hair Plugs posted: 10.18.2015 - 2:51 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) 28 laps further along than last week. Small improvements. 75. Big Mac Fan posted: 10.18.2015 - 2:51 pm Rate this comment: (2) (0) Backmarker King Racing 76. Nathan8848 posted: 10.18.2015 - 2:51 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Harvick and Truex are the only one taking 2. 77. 88&4Fan posted: 10.18.2015 - 2:52 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Bad Kar Racing 78. Schroeder51 posted: 10.18.2015 - 2:52 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Harvick and Truex are the only ones to take two tires here. 79. Schroeder51 posted: 10.18.2015 - 2:52 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Bad Krap Racing ...okay, that might've been a little too harsh... 80. Nathan8848 posted: 10.18.2015 - 2:55 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I wonder if they will clear the track this time? 81. PenskeGuy posted: 10.18.2015 - 2:55 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) I still think that #22 looks the best at this stage in the race. We'll see how two tires works for Kevin and Martin. 82. Schroeder51 posted: 10.18.2015 - 2:57 pm Rate this comment: (2) (0) Somebody is mocking the user who is always in despair when Junior doesn't win for a few weeks, I see... 83. 88&4Fan posted: 10.18.2015 - 3:00 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Harvick still worried about a potential engine problem... 84. Nathan8848 posted: 10.18.2015 - 3:02 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Maybe the sport needs to find quicker ways to clean the track up. 85. Schroeder51 posted: 10.18.2015 - 3:05 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Harvick clears Truex for the lead after a lap. 86. Schroeder51 posted: 10.18.2015 - 3:06 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Kyle Busch has dropped out of the top 10 on this restart. 87. Chad's Hair Plugs posted: 10.18.2015 - 3:06 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Thanks to King Air, no one should be taking 4 tires the rest of the race. 88. dennyfan11 posted: 10.18.2015 - 3:09 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I'm not sure if you're trolling or not. Dale's doing fine, You shouldn't worry. 89. Nathan8848 posted: 10.18.2015 - 3:10 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Gordon and Jr. are dropping. 90. dennyfan11 posted: 10.18.2015 - 3:10 pm Rate this comment: (1) (1) Logano in the lead. 91. Chad's Hair Plugs posted: 10.18.2015 - 3:10 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Then JoLo with 4 tires powers by Harvick like he's standing still for the lead. There goes my theory. 92. Schroeder51 posted: 10.18.2015 - 3:11 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Logano is all over Harvick and easily blows past him on the high side. Kenseth now closing in for second. Considering Kenseth has now pretty much been placed in a "must win" situation, I would not be surprised if he emerges victorious today... 93. Nathan8848 posted: 10.18.2015 - 3:16 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Jimmie seems to be really fast. Smoke spins. 94. MAR posted: 10.18.2015 - 3:16 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Blaney is still by far the best young prospect out there. 95. Benjamin LordLowe posted: 10.18.2015 - 3:16 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Hey Gordon you are not going to have a chance in hell of winning that 5th championship in your last season if you continue to drop backwards like a stone 96. Chad's Hair Plugs posted: 10.18.2015 - 3:17 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Tony spins, ending NBC's 5 minute long justification of showing Dos Jotas the rest of the year. 97. dennyfan11 posted: 10.18.2015 - 3:17 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) And Tony Stewart spins out. 98. Schroeder51 posted: 10.18.2015 - 3:17 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Tony Stewart loops it around on the backstretch and brings out caution #2. Gordon's car is terrible early in this race, already almost out of the top 20. 99. MAR posted: 10.18.2015 - 3:17 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Erik Jones a very close second 100. Jim Davis posted: 10.18.2015 - 3:20 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Drivers decline at various rates as they age but Stewart seems to have fallen off a cliff. How in the world is he running this poorly? 101. Benjamin LordLowe posted: 10.18.2015 - 3:20 pm Rate this comment: (1) (3) I don't think the problem for the 24 team this season isn't the car its the driver 102. Schroeder51 posted: 10.18.2015 - 3:21 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Edwards, Keselowski, Blaney, and Newman took two tires. With clean air being such a big factor in these races, this is an excellent move early in the race... 103. PenskeGuy posted: 10.18.2015 - 3:21 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) This time around, Edwards, Keselowski, Ryan Blaney and others took two tires. 104. Nathan8848 posted: 10.18.2015 - 3:22 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Lions and Jags winning. Awesome. 105. Chad's Hair Plugs posted: 10.18.2015 - 3:25 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) C'mon, take the lead little Blaney. 106. dennyfan11 posted: 10.18.2015 - 3:26 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Matt Kenseth takes the lead! 107. Nathan8848 posted: 10.18.2015 - 3:26 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Kenseth to the lead,and will probably stay that way for a while. 108. Schroeder51 posted: 10.18.2015 - 3:27 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) And the #20 moves out front and pulls away in clean air. 109. dennyfan11 posted: 10.18.2015 - 3:27 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Pull the upset alarm! Blaney's in 3rd! (Running in the top 10 all race, just pointing it out.) 110. Nathan8848 posted: 10.18.2015 - 3:27 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Bus fire. 111. dennyfan11 posted: 10.18.2015 - 3:27 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) So a bus just caught fire outside of the race track. 112. Benjamin LordLowe posted: 10.18.2015 - 3:27 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Note to Jeff Gordon Get your head out of your ass and start driving like this is your honest to goodness very last chance at winning that 5th championship 113. Schroeder51 posted: 10.18.2015 - 3:27 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) A bus is in flames outside the racetrack... 114. Chad's Hair Plugs posted: 10.18.2015 - 3:28 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) What's with Kansas and random vehicles catching on fire?!?! 115. Nathan8848 posted: 10.18.2015 - 3:28 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Wasn't this the track where the grass caught on fire and the race had to be delayed a few years back? 116. We need more Onion posted: 10.18.2015 - 3:28 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Found BK Racing's transportation. Smoke, but no yellow. 117. RaceFanX posted: 10.18.2015 - 3:28 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) There's a bus on fire outside turn 4. Yikes. As NBC mentioned here's hoping everyone is okay. Shouldn't effect the race. 118. Benjamin LordLowe posted: 10.18.2015 - 3:29 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I think most every NASCAR fan (well those that are still left) are sick of this clean air is king crap 119. Chives5150 posted: 10.18.2015 - 3:31 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Bizarre stuff usually happens at Kansas. 120. Anonymous posted: 10.18.2015 - 3:32 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Burning Kansas Racing. 121. Benjamin LordLowe posted: 10.18.2015 - 3:33 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) This Fire is probably the most exciting thing to happen during the race 122. Ernest T. posted: 10.18.2015 - 3:35 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Plenty of laps yet to be run, but NASCAR couldn't have scripted this any better so far. Just gotta get Kyle & Denny up a few more spots and that's no big trick. 123. Nathan8848 posted: 10.18.2015 - 3:35 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Edwards sure has fallen to 11th. 124. Benjamin LordLowe posted: 10.18.2015 - 3:36 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Smokey the driver says only you can prevent speedway fires 125. Schroeder51 posted: 10.18.2015 - 3:38 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Larson is dropping a bunch of spots in a hurry. 126. Nathan8848 posted: 10.18.2015 - 3:40 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) 2 tires only works only if you have great car. The teams who took 2 are falling back both in this run and last run. 127. Schroeder51 posted: 10.18.2015 - 3:44 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Allmendinger off the pace. 128. RaceFanX posted: 10.18.2015 - 3:44 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Smokey also says "Bandit, I'm going barbecue your ass!" 129. Nathan8848 posted: 10.18.2015 - 3:45 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Larson spins. A.J. and Trevor with anger problems. 130. Schroeder51 posted: 10.18.2015 - 3:45 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Well, I guess racefangurl isn't going to be an Allmendinger fan anytime soon... Larson spins on the backstretch and brings out caution #3. 131. RaceFanX posted: 10.18.2015 - 3:46 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Ken Larson and his white-and-red pinstriped Target #42 Chevy goes for a drift in turn 2 and slides sideways on the backstretch infield. 132. 88&4Fan posted: 10.18.2015 - 3:47 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Austin Dillon is quietly having another great run just outside the top five. 133. RaceFanX posted: 10.18.2015 - 3:48 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The American broadcast of the Bathurst 1000 is coming up at the top of the hour on CBS Sports network for those who have picture-in-picture or want to have a second race to watch this afternoon. 134. Nathan8848 posted: 10.18.2015 - 3:54 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) If Jr. can somehow be within 10 points from 8th entering Talladega, I would be okay with that. 135. Schroeder51 posted: 10.18.2015 - 3:55 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Kansas leading at Kansas." 136. BluesTravelerFan posted: 10.18.2015 - 3:58 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Nice to hear some brief Alice in Chains there... 137. RaceFanX posted: 10.18.2015 - 4:04 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) CBS Sports is now weirdly airing the V8 Supercars race from Eastern Creek instead of Bathurst as scheduled. What? 138. racefangurl posted: 10.18.2015 - 4:05 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I think next week would be more likely to have a spoiler than this one. Anything can happen at Talladega. Maybe somebody from the Terrible Equipment Brigade, like Landon Cassill, say will win. He has run good at 'Dega. 139. Big Mac Fan posted: 10.18.2015 - 4:08 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) It looks I missed some stuff...a bus on fire? How did that happen? Anyways Kenseth to the lead. 140. racefangurl posted: 10.18.2015 - 4:09 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) All Roushskateers are top-25. If we see this consistently, it might be a mild good sign. 141. Big Mac Fan posted: 10.18.2015 - 4:10 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Austin Dillon's really been impressing me lately. He's gone from a top 20 car to a top 10 car weekly, and he's running 5th now. Even though they've been having trouble finishing races, if they can keep this speed up I think he could start challenging for wins. 142. Schroeder51 posted: 10.18.2015 - 4:12 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Believe it or not, we are possibly on pace for our third race this season in which all 43 cars finish. Yeley has returned to the race track. 143. Big Mac Fan posted: 10.18.2015 - 4:13 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Probably not going to happen, this place has tons of crashes and we are only halfway. 144. Stewart14rocks posted: 10.18.2015 - 4:15 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) We know we won't have a debris caution for air on the track anytime soon cause kenseth is leading ð??-ð??- 145. Big Mac Fan posted: 10.18.2015 - 4:15 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) And Austin Dillon blows another tire while running top 5. Damn it. 146. Stewart14rocks posted: 10.18.2015 - 4:15 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Welp Austin dilon has a right front go down and smack into the wall 147. Schroeder51 posted: 10.18.2015 - 4:17 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) And just like at Chicago where he had a very strong run, Dillon ends up meeting the wall in between turns 1 and 2 due to a flat tire. 148. Stewart14rocks posted: 10.18.2015 - 4:17 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Well just saw hardees tex mex commercial now a days u can make anything dirty. 149. 28DaveyAllison28 posted: 10.18.2015 - 4:18 pm Rate this comment: (1) (3) I'm turning the race off now. Austin Dillion was only interesting driver running in top 5 & of course, he is the one to blow a tire. Goodbye to this boring race 150. Schroeder51 posted: 10.18.2015 - 4:18 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I may have spoken too soon; I just noticed that Landon Cassill is currently off the track with an unknown problem (that #40 car has had a LOT of mechanical problems this year...) 151. Stewart14rocks posted: 10.18.2015 - 4:19 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) @150 sadly yes 152. Big Mac Fan posted: 10.18.2015 - 4:20 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Green flag! 153. Schroeder51 posted: 10.18.2015 - 4:21 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) I will say Dillon has improved a lot this year, though. While Larson has looked quite a fair bit worse than last year, Dillon has looked quite a bit better; he's consistently now able to contend for top 10s. Wonder if all that extra track time in the Xfinity Series this year has something to do with that... 154. Nathan8848 posted: 10.18.2015 - 4:22 pm Rate this comment: (2) (1) Every comment you make Davey is a complaint. No surprise you left. 155. Big Mac Fan posted: 10.18.2015 - 4:23 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Jr. has a loose wheel! 156. RWR posted: 10.18.2015 - 4:23 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) The #40 has a good driver and chassis but a Curtis Key engine! 157. Nathan8848 posted: 10.18.2015 - 4:23 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Jr. with problems. GOD DAMNIT!! THIS PIT CREW IS JUNK! 158. Schroeder51 posted: 10.18.2015 - 4:23 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) #149 If you're seriously that bothered with the sport, why do you even bother watching it in the first place? I don't understand why you would willingly torture yourself like that... Junior to pit road with a loose wheel. This is gonna put him into "must win" mode at Talladega... 159. Nathan8848 posted: 10.18.2015 - 4:25 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) He has no reason advancing. Mistakes just keep happening with the pit crew. 160. Schroeder51 posted: 10.18.2015 - 4:26 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Well, so much for all 43 cars finishing this race, the ticker now lists Dillon and Cassill as being done for the day (I guess they decided they couldn't fix the #3 in time to get it back out before the end of the race). 161. Big Mac Fan posted: 10.18.2015 - 4:26 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I don't think Jr. Is going to make Round 3. He's too far back to make it in points now, and let's not act like he will easily win Talladega. It is easier said than done. 162. Stewart14rocks posted: 10.18.2015 - 4:27 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) This chase is sorta playing out like last year 2014 2015 Chicagland:penske gibbs Nhms:penske. Gibbs Dover:Hendricks. Shr Cms:shr. Penske Kms:penske. Gibbs Talladega:penske. Gibbs Martinsville:Hendricks. Someone eliminated this round Texas:Hendricks. Same as martineville and Phoenix and homestead is logano. 163. Stewart14rocks posted: 10.18.2015 - 4:27 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Well that comment was shot 164. Big Mac Fan posted: 10.18.2015 - 4:28 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Bowyer crashes at his home track. 165. Chad's Hair Plugs posted: 10.18.2015 - 4:28 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) We return with the 15 wrecked 166. Nathan8848 posted: 10.18.2015 - 4:28 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Bowyer slams into the wall hard. 167. Schroeder51 posted: 10.18.2015 - 4:28 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I want to say Junior is a lock to win Talladega, but we've gotta remember anything can happen there. People in desperate Chase situations can easily do highly desperate things there, and that can EASILY lead to the Chase standings getting shuffled up big time. Look at last year where Kyle Busch entered Talladega 2nd in points and all but a lock to make Round 3; then he gets caught up in a crash and ends up getting knocked out on the spot. And Clint Bowyer has slammed the wall hard off Turn 2. 168. Chad's Hair Plugs posted: 10.18.2015 - 4:29 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) That would've been ugly without the SAFER barrier 169. Schroeder51 posted: 10.18.2015 - 4:29 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) OUCH, that was a serious head-on blow there. That was not pleasant to watch... Fortunately, Bowyer is OK, but DAMN was that a hard hit. It looks like he got loose, tried to correct it and overdid it in the process... 170. Christian posted: 10.18.2015 - 4:30 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Looks like it's Penske, Gibbs, and Harvick with the golden horseshoes as usual. f**k this year. 171. Big Mac Fan posted: 10.18.2015 - 4:30 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Reminds me of Johnson's Charlotte 2011 crash. 172. Nathan8848 posted: 10.18.2015 - 4:30 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Bowyer hits in turn 2. Slides all the way to the entrance to turn 3. 173. murb posted: 10.18.2015 - 4:30 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Wonder if all that extra track time in the Xfinity Series this year has something to do with that..." I think pairing him with Slugger Labbe has a lot more to do with it than the extra track time. It all really started when they made that change. But yes, overall he does look a ton better this year. 174. RaceFanX posted: 10.18.2015 - 4:33 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Bowyer hit hard enough the hood of his #15 Toyota popped open. It's always a bummer to see him have issues at Kansas Speedway because he's a Kansas native. 175. Big Mac Fan posted: 10.18.2015 - 4:34 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) And here's another nation commercial... 176. 88&4Fan posted: 10.18.2015 - 4:34 pm Rate this comment: (2) (0) I think Dillon will make the chase next year, even if he doesn't win (but I think he will win). 177. racefangurl posted: 10.18.2015 - 4:34 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) If Austin Dillon keeps running good, he might prove he's worthy of the 3. At least more worthy than some have said he is. 178. Big Mac Fan posted: 10.18.2015 - 4:36 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "problem for the 24 team this season isn't the car it's the driver." Uh, have you noticed that all of Hendrick has been down this year? Yes Jeff has had a bad year but I don't think it's all on him. 179. Nathan8848 posted: 10.18.2015 - 4:37 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) No mention of him today, but Brian Scott is having a good day. 180. Schroeder51 posted: 10.18.2015 - 4:37 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Bowyer: "I probably should have let it spin, but I tried to save it. Guess what? I did NOT save it." Probably would've been the better thing to do, he likely would still have a race car if he just let it loop around. Logano gets the lead on the restart! 181. Chad's Hair Plugs posted: 10.18.2015 - 4:37 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Slide job gives JoLo the lead. 182. Big Mac Fan posted: 10.18.2015 - 4:40 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Even with a loose wheel the 88 is ahead of the 10. 183. joey2448 posted: 10.18.2015 - 4:40 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Bowyers wreck reminded me of Sterling in 2002. Vicious crash. 184. Schroeder51 posted: 10.18.2015 - 4:40 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Kenseth has caught Logano for the lead. 185. Big Mac Fan posted: 10.18.2015 - 4:41 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) And both crashes were at Kansas. 186. Big Mac Fan posted: 10.18.2015 - 4:42 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Good battle for the lead. Keselowski hits the wall. 187. Nathan8848 posted: 10.18.2015 - 4:42 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Brad skims the wall very lightly. 188. Schroeder51 posted: 10.18.2015 - 4:42 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Keselowski smacks the wall off turn 4. 189. PenskeGuy posted: 10.18.2015 - 4:44 pm Rate this comment: (2) (0) Talladega's a total crapshoot, so any driver looking to advance with a win there will probably have to rely on luck. I know Kenseth would feel a lot better about his chances if he won today. 190. racefangurl posted: 10.18.2015 - 4:46 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) All the Roushskateers are in the top-20 191. Schroeder51 posted: 10.18.2015 - 4:46 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Logano continuing to hold off Kenseth... But now the #20 clears him. Kansas back out front at Kansas. 192. Chad's Hair Plugs posted: 10.18.2015 - 4:46 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Kenseth takes the lead back. Assist: 32 car 193. Big Mac Fan posted: 10.18.2015 - 4:46 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) @PenskeGuy Are you new on this site (I'm assuming you are), or are you RCRandPenskeGuy? Just wondering since you have similar names. Kenseth takes the lead. 194. Nathan8848 posted: 10.18.2015 - 4:47 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I'd take Johnson over Kenseth and Edwards. 195. 88&4Fan posted: 10.18.2015 - 4:47 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Calling it now. Keselowski gets eliminated this round. 196. Big Mac Fan posted: 10.18.2015 - 4:47 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Kenseth takes the lead back. Assist: 32 car" Steal: Kenseth Turnover: Logano 197. Nathan8848 posted: 10.18.2015 - 4:47 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) *Logano not Edwards. 198. racefangurl posted: 10.18.2015 - 4:52 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Kenseth isn't from Kansas, so why call him Kansas? 199. Big Mac Fan posted: 10.18.2015 - 4:53 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Because that's what it sounds like when most announcers say his last name. "Kansas wins at Kansas!" 200. Ernest T. posted: 10.18.2015 - 4:53 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) All that fans of non-scripted races can hope for now is that Kenseth's nitrous bottle runs dry before we run out of laps. 201. Schroeder51 posted: 10.18.2015 - 4:54 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Not too far now from green flag pit stops for the leaders. 202. Nathan8848 posted: 10.18.2015 - 4:54 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Oh Jacques where are you? 203. Schroeder51 posted: 10.18.2015 - 4:55 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Truex is the first to hit pit road. 204. Chad's Hair Plugs posted: 10.18.2015 - 4:55 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Heaven forbid this stays green, it'l be interesting to see if the back half of the lead lap who pitted at the Bowyer caution stay out and try to keep some guys who pit now a lap down. 205. Big Mac Fan posted: 10.18.2015 - 4:55 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Ernest T., is any race where a JGR car wins is a "scripted" race? If it was like Chicagoland or mabye Darlington I would have to agree. Unless something similar happens today. 206. Nathan8848 posted: 10.18.2015 - 4:56 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Harvick with a drive-thru penalty. 207. Schroeder51 posted: 10.18.2015 - 4:56 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Harvick dragged some equipment out of his pit. Penalty upcoming... 208. Big Mac Fan posted: 10.18.2015 - 4:56 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Harvick will get a penalty for equipment out of the box. 209. Chad's Hair Plugs posted: 10.18.2015 - 4:57 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The 4 with pit ISH-SHOES? Never 210. Big Mac Fan posted: 10.18.2015 - 4:57 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Truex also gets a penalty. 211. Schroeder51 posted: 10.18.2015 - 4:57 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Truex also gets penalized for an uncontrolled tire. 212. Nathan8848 posted: 10.18.2015 - 4:57 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Add Truex to a need for a drive-thru penalty. 213. Ernest T. posted: 10.18.2015 - 4:57 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Well, check my comment from 2:20 PM today -- who did I say would win? See, I have access to the script! 214. Nathan8848 posted: 10.18.2015 - 4:58 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) LIONS WIN!!!! 215. Chad's Hair Plugs posted: 10.18.2015 - 4:58 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Its during green flag stops, but Ryan Blaney is leading! 216. Schroeder51 posted: 10.18.2015 - 4:58 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Ryan Blaney currently leading through the green-flag pit cycle. 217. Big Mac Fan posted: 10.18.2015 - 4:59 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Edwards leads during the cycle. 218. Schroeder51 posted: 10.18.2015 - 5:00 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) A JGR car being the fastest today? When they've been fast virtually every week since mid-summer? #NASCARIlluminatiConfirmed 219. PenskeGuy posted: 10.18.2015 - 5:00 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I used to post here as RCRandPenskeGuy, but I'm not as big a fan of RCR anymore (although I still stuck with the name until now as this is the first race I've commented on in a long while). 220. Ernest T. posted: 10.18.2015 - 5:02 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) @218: Since mid-summer, you say? Hmmmm, what happened at that time....? 221. Nathan8848 posted: 10.18.2015 - 5:03 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Harvick breaks shifter. Now Busch may blow. 222. Big Mac Fan posted: 10.18.2015 - 5:03 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Kyle Busch might be blowing up. 223. Chad's Hair Plugs posted: 10.18.2015 - 5:04 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Racing karma might get Kyle again. Maybe its time to stop stinking up the minors. 224. Schroeder51 posted: 10.18.2015 - 5:04 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Kyle Busch says he's about to blow up as his temperatures are topping 300F... Menard is currently leading as he still has yet to pit...and now he comes in. 225. Nathan8848 posted: 10.18.2015 - 5:05 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Kasey Kahne in the Top 5. But I think he still needs to pit. 226. David posted: 10.18.2015 - 5:08 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Talladega's a total crapshoot" This may be the biggest sweeping half-truth that's continually perpetuated in the sport. Sure, the element of luck is more present at Talladega and Daytona than at other venues, but that doesn't mean teams can't and don't employ strategies that work. They're not always successful, but I'd venture to say that you would be surprised at how often a given race winner at those tracks used some sort of race-planning tactics. 227. Nathan8848 posted: 10.18.2015 - 5:08 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Another vibration for Dale. When Dale struggles, he struggles horrendously. 228. Big Mac Fan posted: 10.18.2015 - 5:08 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I think Kahne already pit. But when's the last time he even ran in the top 5? 229. Ernest T. posted: 10.18.2015 - 5:09 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Here's a prediction you don't need a script to know is true: NASCAR will not "discover" any debris in the closing laps of this race (because they don't want to, or they could at ANY time). 230. Chad's Hair Plugs posted: 10.18.2015 - 5:09 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Marty didn't get the memo. We say ish-shoes now, not prawblems. Also, I know they're doing side by side, but they were back full screen for maybe 90 seconds. 231. Schroeder51 posted: 10.18.2015 - 5:10 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Kenseth getting ready to lap into the top 10. 232. Nathan8848 posted: 10.18.2015 - 5:10 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Allgaier blows a tire and caution is out. Harvick with the lucky dog. 233. Schroeder51 posted: 10.18.2015 - 5:10 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) We get a caution as Allgaier smacks the wall right behind Kenseth. 234. 88&4Fan posted: 10.18.2015 - 5:10 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) NASCAR on FOX's FB page just posted a story on Junior's loose wheel, and wouldn't you know Hater Nation is already there in full force. I swear those people (along with Yahoo commenters) are the absolute scum of the internet. 235. Big Mac Fan posted: 10.18.2015 - 5:10 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Allgaier slams the wall. Caution. Big break for Harvick, Truex as they can take the wave around. 236. Chad's Hair Plugs posted: 10.18.2015 - 5:11 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Allgaier skimmed the wall again, this time they decide to throw the yellow for it. 237. Schroeder51 posted: 10.18.2015 - 5:11 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) *waits for someone to question the legitimacy of that caution* 238. Big Mac Fan posted: 10.18.2015 - 5:12 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Johnson stays out to lead for the first time in 12+ races. 239. Chad's Hair Plugs posted: 10.18.2015 - 5:12 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Dos Jotas stays out so I think there's no wavearound. 240. Schroeder51 posted: 10.18.2015 - 5:12 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Johnson stayed out, so Harvick and Truex will not regain their lost laps. 241. Nathan8848 posted: 10.18.2015 - 5:13 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Stenhouse actually got the lucky dog. 242. Big Mac Fan posted: 10.18.2015 - 5:14 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Harvick comes in again as well as Jr. so they are good on fuel. If another yellow comes out Harvick will probably get the free pas.. 243. Sector posted: 10.18.2015 - 5:17 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) #238, Jimmie Johnson led two laps last week at Charlotte 244. Nathan8848 posted: 10.18.2015 - 5:18 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Kandy Kahne is having a great run. I guess he didn't have to pit. 245. Ernest T. posted: 10.18.2015 - 5:18 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Gotta love how those JGR engines (Kyle) can run so well and last so long at 300 degrees, though I can't say I'm surprised. 246. Lucstar88 posted: 10.18.2015 - 5:18 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Kenseth has this. No one's in his league. 247. Nathan8848 posted: 10.18.2015 - 5:19 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Ernest we get it. You don't have post the same thing about JGR every single post. 248. Schroeder51 posted: 10.18.2015 - 5:20 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Logano is catching Kenseth. 249. Lucstar88 posted: 10.18.2015 - 5:20 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Spoke too soon, here come Joey! 250. Ernest T. posted: 10.18.2015 - 5:20 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) If the 22 gets by the 20, 'debris' will be found. Book it. 251. Schroeder51 posted: 10.18.2015 - 5:20 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Ernest, I think we get. JGR is in NASCAR's back pocket. Now could you please repeat that 20 more times to make sure we understand? 252. Big Mac Fan posted: 10.18.2015 - 5:21 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Heavy blocking by Kenseth. 253. Christian posted: 10.18.2015 - 5:22 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) It's JGR vs Penske, whoop-dee-f**king-doo, like we haven't seen enough of this shit lately. 254. racefangurl posted: 10.18.2015 - 5:22 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) 241, that team needs all the luck it can get, Roush, that is. 255. PenskeGuy posted: 10.18.2015 - 5:23 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) We're setting up for a showdown between the #20 and the #22. 256. Anonymous posted: 10.18.2015 - 5:23 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I have no idea why so many people seem to think Chad Knaus is so smart and is the sole reason why Johnson has any success. Keeping Johnson out during that caution cost him the race. Foolish mistake, you only stay out there if you're in the back and you want to take a chance, not if you have the best car on track and you're running in 2nd. Then again, he probably knew if Kenseth was able to control the restart that he would have jumped and NASCAR wouldn't have done a damn thing about it. 257. Big Mac Fan posted: 10.18.2015 - 5:23 pm Rate this comment: (2) (2) If you are so angry about a team dominating, then don't watch. You obviously aren't a fan. 258. Nathan8848 posted: 10.18.2015 - 5:24 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I think Kenseth has this, Logano can't run the bottom. 259. Lucstar88 posted: 10.18.2015 - 5:25 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) HA HE TURNED HIM!!! 260. Big Mac Fan posted: 10.18.2015 - 5:25 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) 6 to go. Good battle between Kenseth and Logano. Matt spins out! 261. Schroeder51 posted: 10.18.2015 - 5:25 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) ^Prepare to get raked over the coals for that comment by some people... AND LOGANO SPINS KENSETH! 262. Nathan8848 posted: 10.18.2015 - 5:25 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I don't know what to say......... 263. Big Mac Fan posted: 10.18.2015 - 5:25 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Somewhere, Ernest T. has a smile on his face. 264. Lucstar88 posted: 10.18.2015 - 5:26 pm Rate this comment: (2) (2) He tried to block him in the wall. He got what he deserves! 265. Ernest T. posted: 10.18.2015 - 5:26 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) OK, I'll shut up now LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL....... Since you asked, THAT'S why I watch. 266. Chad's Hair Plugs posted: 10.18.2015 - 5:26 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) "If the 22 gets by the 20, 'debris' will be found. Book it." You were half right. Kenseth's car was the debris. 267. Nathan8848 posted: 10.18.2015 - 5:26 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) I don't care who you for, but that was good racing. 268. Big Mac Fan posted: 10.18.2015 - 5:26 pm Rate this comment: (3) (2) Can't blame Logano, Kenseth was blocking for several laps, I think Logano got tired of it. I don't think Kenseth will make round 3. 269. DB1995 posted: 10.18.2015 - 5:27 pm Rate this comment: (1) (3) and thats what happens when you block the shit out of someone, the same race happens 2 years ago between Matt and Kasey, but Kasey isn't the kind of driver to do something like that. 270. TS1420 posted: 10.18.2015 - 5:27 pm Rate this comment: (1) (3) Just came in from working outside so see Kenseth act like a dick and get instant karma'd by it. Joey had the run and Kenseth tried to stuff him in the wall. 271. racefangurl posted: 10.18.2015 - 5:27 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) 262, I do. Kenseth got farted up. 272. 88&4Fan posted: 10.18.2015 - 5:28 pm Rate this comment: (5) (5) Matt blocked him fair and then Joey just dumped him like a little punk that he is. 273. PenskeGuy posted: 10.18.2015 - 5:29 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Needless to say, Joey and Matt getting together is going to make a lot of headlines this coming week. 274. Schroeder51 posted: 10.18.2015 - 5:29 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Denny moves to second on the restart, so the chances for another JGR victory are still very much alive... 275. Nathan8848 posted: 10.18.2015 - 5:29 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Kenseth falls all the way down to 12th in points 33 back. Stunning. 276. New14 & 88 Fan posted: 10.18.2015 - 5:30 pm Rate this comment: (3) (0) That was a racing deal. Kenseth caught lap traffic at the wrong time and it allowed Logano to to get to his bumper. Kenseth blocked Joey up to the wall to take the high line away and then tried to block him down low and Joey was there. If Logano lets off Kenseth gets away. I hate that for Kenseth but in the end nobody really did anything wrong. 277. BluesTravelerFan posted: 10.18.2015 - 5:30 pm Rate this comment: (6) (1) Kenseth is racing to save his season, why shouldn't he be blocking? 278. Benjamin LordLowe posted: 10.18.2015 - 5:31 pm Rate this comment: (1) (2) Logano did what he had to do Kenseth was playing with fire and got burned big time 279. Big Mac Fan posted: 10.18.2015 - 5:32 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Logano clears Hamlin. 280. Anonymous posted: 10.18.2015 - 5:32 pm Rate this comment: (0) (2) "Kenseth is racing to save his season, why shouldn't he be blocking?" Because of exactly what just happened. Generally speaking, if you race clean, you get raced clean. Good on Logano for not putting up with it. 281. Schroeder51 posted: 10.18.2015 - 5:32 pm Rate this comment: (1) (1) Logano gets the jump on the restart. 282. Big Mac Fan posted: 10.18.2015 - 5:32 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Kahne is in 4th. Where did he come from? 283. Nathan8848 posted: 10.18.2015 - 5:33 pm Rate this comment: (2) (1) Gordon gets a top 10 after a miserable day. That's why he has been racing for as long as he was. 284. Chad's Hair Plugs posted: 10.18.2015 - 5:33 pm Rate this comment: (2) (0) Wow, Blaney 7th, Brian Scott 12th 285. Schroeder51 posted: 10.18.2015 - 5:34 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Logano scores what is probably gonna be a VERY controversial win by spinning the dominant Kenseth out, and prevents anyone else from clinching a spot in the Chase. Not that I can blame Kenseth for trying to block, as he was trying his damnedest to keep the lead and ensure his way into Round 3, but it's also hard for me to blame Logano for not wanting to back off going into the corner. After running pretty dismally most of the day Gordon steals a top 10, LOL 286. We need more Onion posted: 10.18.2015 - 5:34 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Gordon lucks himself into a 10th place... Great run for Blaney! Between 5th-8th all day and comes home in 7th. 287. 88&4Fan posted: 10.18.2015 - 5:35 pm Rate this comment: (3) (2) Great job Joey hope you're happy winning on a cheap shot like that. Shades of Jeff Gordon 2006 Chicago. 288. Chives5150 posted: 10.18.2015 - 5:35 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) That was hilarious. 289. Christian posted: 10.18.2015 - 5:36 pm Rate this comment: (0) (11) And Logano wins again. Yawn. My interest in this series is officially dead. Same 2 boring ass teams winning nearly every race this year. 290. Big Mac Fan posted: 10.18.2015 - 5:36 pm Rate this comment: (1) (1) Decent race. Don't feel bad for Kenseth, he played the blocking game and took himself out. Now he has to win next week. Logano gets his 5th win of the season, and great finishes for Blaney and Scott in 7th and 12th. Kasey Kahne gets a top 5, and Kyle Busch finishes 5th and doesn't blow a motor. Let's go on to Dega where anything and everything imaginable will happen! 291. Schroeder51 posted: 10.18.2015 - 5:37 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Kenseth manages to crack a smile after the race, but he doesn't have the kindest of words for Logano. Basically, he NEEDS to win Talladega as there is almost no way he can make it on points now. 292. MAR posted: 10.18.2015 - 5:37 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) @289 you don't have to watch 293. Nathan8848 posted: 10.18.2015 - 5:38 pm Rate this comment: (2) (1) Same 2 teams winning every week? Oh, yah, it's not your driver winning every other week, so it sucks. 294. Christian posted: 10.18.2015 - 5:39 pm Rate this comment: (0) (2) @292 This is the 3rd race in a row I haven't watched one second of. 295. DH101 posted: 10.18.2015 - 5:39 pm Rate this comment: (1) (1) Welp, don't blame Logano the slightest bit for dumping kenseth even though I have no respect for Logano anyways. All I have to say is...Boys....HAVE AT IT! 296. MAR posted: 10.18.2015 - 5:39 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Good for Logano good for Blaney and good for Scott 297. Schroeder51 posted: 10.18.2015 - 5:39 pm Rate this comment: (5) (0) "And Logano wins again. Yawn. My interest in this series is officially dead. Same 2 boring ass teams winning nearly every race this year." Your interest in this series is dead, and yet I wouldn't be surprised if we see you comment on the remaining races of the season. Seriously, I don't get it. If you are THIS dissatisfied with the sport and the way things are going with it, why do you keep on watching week after week? Makes me wonder if some people are serious masochists... 298. racefangurl posted: 10.18.2015 - 5:39 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) YEEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH! 299. Big Mac Fan posted: 10.18.2015 - 5:39 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) And Ernest T., the "you're obviously not a fan" comment wasn't directed to you, it was directed to Christian. 300. TS1420 posted: 10.18.2015 - 5:40 pm Rate this comment: (1) (2) Eh, I'll take a Logano win over another boring ass Kenzzzzeth win. Kenseth did a dick-move running Logano all the way from the very bottom to the wall (which Joey actually hit) then tried chopping back down and Logano had enough and kept his nose in there. Congrats to Ryan Blaney on his top 10 finish! Talladega is gonna be insane next week. 301. MAR posted: 10.18.2015 - 5:40 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) @294 I don't blame you for not watching 302. Cynical Guy posted: 10.18.2015 - 5:42 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Schroeder, see my posts on the NXS race. Some fans are impatient, don't understand the sport and are very, very vocal. As I'm sure you've noticed in society., and especially on this website, idiots enjoy shouting. 303. Big Mac Fan posted: 10.18.2015 - 5:42 pm Rate this comment: (4) (0) "This is the third race in a row I haven't watched one second of." Yet you're still commenting on the race here... 304. theAvant posted: 10.18.2015 - 5:43 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) Christian trying to be relevant. lol 305. PenskeGuy posted: 10.18.2015 - 5:45 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) After seeing all those replays, I see Joey and Matt getting together as just hard racing for the win. Matt was blocking like hell, so contact was almost inevitable. Now Kenseth HAS to win next week to advance. 306. New14 & 88 Fan posted: 10.18.2015 - 5:45 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) I don't blame Kenseth for being upset, but he took a risk by blocking Logano like and it bit him. Now he's in a definite must-win situation with the ultimate crapshot, Talladega, up next. Matt's a good plate racer but as has been pointed out anything can happen their and the drivers don't really control their own faiths. 307. Nathan8848 posted: 10.18.2015 - 5:47 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) All 3 Roush cars in the Top 20. Good job for those guys. It may not seem much, but Matt D had a good 30th in the BK team. 308. Big Mac Fan posted: 10.18.2015 - 5:50 pm Rate this comment: (2) (0) I agree PenskeGuy, that was just a battle for the win. Matt tried too hard to keep Logano behind him, because he had no choice, and as a result contact happened. It actually turned into an exciting finish. Anyways Dale Jr. and/or Kenseth MUST win Dega. One of them will not advance. As for the others, who knows, anything can happen. 309. Big Mac Fan posted: 10.18.2015 - 5:52 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Very close finish by Keselowski and Gordon. Keselowski beat him for 9th. 310. Benjamin LordLowe posted: 10.18.2015 - 5:56 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) I would've done the same thing had I been in Logano's shoes 311. Nathan8848 posted: 10.18.2015 - 5:57 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Kurt Busch having a little chuckle after being told he is only 13 points ahead. 312. racefangurl posted: 10.18.2015 - 5:59 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) 307, the team may be improving a bit. 313. BluesTravelerFan posted: 10.18.2015 - 6:00 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) @310 I don't mean to start any kind of argument Ben, but I'm kind of surprised with all your talk in the past of drivers needing to be tough and race hard at all times that you have a problem with Kenseth's blocking. I'm not saying you are wrong in your opinion, I'm just curious why you think Matt shouldn't have blocked. 314. Anonymous posted: 10.18.2015 - 6:04 pm Rate this comment: (1) (6) Dale Jr has another "problem" with his wheel. Rick Hendrick will not give him a new pit crew because he is bound and determined to keep Jr from ever winning again. I hope I'm wrong but I doubt Jr will ever win again. Thumbs down this 1000 times if you want to. I'm just saying what I think and I'm tired of being bullied for posting what I think. 315. Big Mac Fan posted: 10.18.2015 - 6:05 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) "He's got him, I believe he's got him this time, Oh he turned him! No! Oh he turned him no!" This quote could be used to explain several crashes including this. 316. Benjamin LordLowe posted: 10.18.2015 - 6:07 pm Rate this comment: (2) (0) At post 314: then stop posting under the shadow of anonymous and start posting under a real name. 317. International Reptoid Resistance posted: 10.18.2015 - 6:08 pm Rate this comment: (0) (6) Joey Logano is a reptilian shill! How can anyone root for him? He's slowly, but secretly sucking the life out of this sport because of his reptilian agenda! 318. Anonymous posted: 10.18.2015 - 6:11 pm Rate this comment: (2) (4) If anyone in NASCAR is a reptilian, Kenseth would be my first guess. 319. Big Mac Fan posted: 10.18.2015 - 6:11 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) @314 It's not that you're getting bullied it's just that your opinions are rather...interesting. Jr. will win again, he's won twice this season and there's Dega next week, where he'll be the favorite to win. 320. Benjamin LordLowe posted: 10.18.2015 - 6:14 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Well Kenseth was okay to have blocked him once or twice but to do it continuously over and over again was asking for trouble and with today's extremely aero sensitive cars where racing side by side is at a premium it seems like the only real way to get around someone is to give them the chrome horn 321. BluesTravelerFan posted: 10.18.2015 - 6:16 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) @320, Okay, just wanted to know exactly where you stance was, respect that. Thanks for the reply. 322. International Reptoid Resistance posted: 10.18.2015 - 6:17 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) First in the line of reptilian royalty in NASCAR is Brian France. 323. 23andJoe posted: 10.18.2015 - 6:18 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) #314 - Pointing out someone holds a viewpoint that requires a tinfoil hat is not "bullying", and using that term - not just here, but in nowadays the vast majority of cases it's used in - devalues /actual/ honest-to-God bullying. #317 - You know too much, Emperor Irontail would like a word. 324. Not So Premium Motorsports posted: 10.18.2015 - 6:34 pm Rate this comment: (2) (1) This race has got to be considered as a NASCAR Classic! Kenseth spinning his way out of the championship while Logano takes two in a row is just simply, rememberable! 325. Benjamin LordLowe posted: 10.18.2015 - 6:35 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) At Post 313: It was okay for Kenseth to block Logano twice maybe 3 times but after that he was probably asking for trouble by repeatedly blocking Logano over and over. Also with today's aero sensitive cars where racing side by side is at a premium if you are faster than a car ahead of you than the only way to really get by that car without suffering the effects of the infamous aero push is to give that car the chrome horn. 326. Thomas posted: 10.18.2015 - 6:38 pm Rate this comment: (2) (0) After a relatively trouble-free day for those still in the Chase, I'll make a bold prediction: The 8th place in the next round will be decided by whomever can get their car back on the track fastest and with the best repair job next week at Talladega. Realistically there are 9 guys fighting for 7 spots unless Jr. or Kenseth pull a rabbit out of their hat. Kenseth isn't driving a 2012 Roush Ford however, and Jr. would have to do something only his daddy has done by winning his 3rd plate race of the season. 327. someone posted: 10.18.2015 - 6:43 pm Rate this comment: (2) (0) Another good race at Kansas. In my opinion, Kansas is probably the most underrated track out there. Although it doesn't really deserve two dates, it is probably the third best 1.5 track besides Homestead and Atlanta. As far as the Kenseth/Logano incident, I agree with most of you on here, in that it was just a racing deal. I'm definitely a JGR fan, and Kenseth's season was on the line, but Logano was faster, and Kenseth was blocking the hell out of Logano. So I really can't blame either. I just wonder what the reaction would be on here if Logano spun Harvick, or someone more popular than Kenseth on here for the win... It looks like Talladega is going to be intense, considering only Logano is safe, and Hamlin probably only needs to survive to advance. Earnhardt and Kenseth both need to win to advance, so it's safe to say at least one of them will be eliminated. As a Carl fan, I'm not too optimistic on his chances, so it's definitely going to be a little stressful! 328. Benjamin LordLowe posted: 10.18.2015 - 6:50 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Sorry for the double post I jumped the gun because my original post in response to Bluestravlerfan took a eternity to load 329. cjs3872 posted: 10.18.2015 - 7:04 pm Rate this comment: (3) (0) Here's the way I see the finish of this race. Under the circumstances, neither Matt Kenseth or Joey Logano did anything wrong. Logano was going to pass Kenseth in traffic late in the race if Kenseth had not blocked him (and may have already passed him, if not for the first block), and Logano had every right to do what he did to Kenseth, considering he was blocked TWICE in the closing laps. And that's where the rub lies. Any time you block another competitor in the closing laps when he's obviously faster, and Logano WAS faster in the closing laps (like he usually is), you open yourself up to being spun out like Kenseth ended up being. So both drivers were doing what they had to do, under the circumstances, and if the shoe had been on the other foot (Kenseth spinning out Logano after Logano had blocked Kenseth), I'd call it the exact same way. Kenseth could not afford to finish second, based on the point situation, so he had to block Logano, and Logano had nothing to lose, since he was already locked into the next round of the Chase, so he was going for broke. Aside from the obvious storyline from this race (Logano vs. Kenseth), I want to tip my hat to one of the most historic teams in the history of the sport, if not THE most historic, and that's the Wood Brothers. Their famous red and white #21 car ran up front all day long with Ryan Blaney, and even led some laps during one of the green flag pit stop cycles. Blaney and the Woods ended up finishing seventh, and ran better than Brad Keselowski's #2 car most of the day. For the Woods, it was just like the old days on the intermediates, when they were a team everyone had to beat. And as for who might race their way into the Chase at Talladega, Dale, Jr. and Matt Kenseth MUST win to advance, and I give both more than a "fighting chance". That said, the unpredictable nature of Talladega could result in a most unlikely outcome, and the drafting aspect is almost certain to result in team drafting tactics to help those outside the Chase to get in. For example, while it's not as desperate as it was last year, I expect ALL the Fords to try to assist the #2 car of Brad Keselowski at some point, and one of them may even act as a blocker for Brad. I also think that we'll see Jimmie Johnson and/or Kasey Kahne try to help Jeff Gordon and especially Dale, Jr. to help push them across into the next round, and the same is true regarding the other RCR teams (3, 27, 33) assisting the #31 of Ryan Newman, who nearly won the fall race at Talladega last year. JGR may well try to give Matt Kesneth a similar boost, though none of the JGR teams are certain to be in the final round, and given what happened to Kyle Busch in last year's fall Talladega race and what happened to Jimmie Johnson in the last race of the first round of this year's Chase, I'm not as certain who might help who there. But team and manufacturer drafting tactics will almost certainly play a role in who gets in the next round of the Chase this year. 330. Jarrett88fan posted: 10.18.2015 - 7:05 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Been a while, since I've posted. Bold prediction time for Talladega, Jr. or Kenseth win and bump Truex out. 331. Nascar Lead Lap Points posted: 10.18.2015 - 7:33 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Sponsor Updates #17 Kimberly Clark Professional/Fastenal #16 Roush Performance Parts #43 Eckrich/Operation Homefront #10 GoDaddy Breast Cancer Awareness (Same at Charlotte) #83 VooDoo BBQ & Grill #47 Dillons Food Stores/Bush's Beans?Kingsford/Scott Products #7 Accell Construction/Breast Cancer Awareness #3 American Ethanol E15 #23 Dr.Pepper/Breast Cancer Awareness #40 Carsforsale.com/Breast Cancer Awareness 332. Driver X posted: 10.18.2015 - 7:47 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) I haven't watched many of the races lately, because of work and business commitments, but I was able to catch the last 70+ laps of the race. It's not like Joey Logano is a dirty driver, he just did what he had to do to win the race. Talladega should be interesting though. I'll definitely find some way to watch the race. I do have one question: Why did Kansas and Charlotte swap dates? 333. Big Mac Fan posted: 10.18.2015 - 7:57 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I agree with Thomas. Even though the Spring Talladega race was tamer than normal, a lot of the previous races haven't been and the July Daytona race was a crash fest. So it's all about survival in this one, and it's going to be a tight point battle. 334. BMan0213 posted: 10.18.2015 - 8:06 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Went to the Mods at Thompson today so I didn't see the race. I did get to hear the last 20 laps or so on MRN and by the sound of it Kenseth kind of had it coming. They way they made it sound the blocks he was throwing were kind of extreme and he also put Joey in the wall before Joey spun him. I'm not saying what Joey did was right, but I can understand why it happened. 335. cjs3872 posted: 10.18.2015 - 8:35 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) @333, the fall race at Talladega in recent years has usually been a tame race (for Talladega standards) until the last 50-100 miles, then all bets are off. The reason being that so much is at stake should there be a big early wreck that the drivers usually ride in single or double file, taking it cautious for Talladega standards, not taking too many wild risks until the last 50-100 miles when it counts more. (Of course, Kyle Busch got into trouble last year by running in the back and ended up getting in a wreck that knocked him out, despite being second in points going in.) There have been exceptions to this, of course, but much like the Bristol night race has become over the last decade due to it's place on the schedule (the third-to-last race of the "regular season"), the fall race at Talladega is usually a calmer affair than the spring race is, at least until the last 50-100 miles, when almost anything goes. But as was seen in last year's fall race with the team strategy used by the Penske team (when Joey Logano pushed Brad Keselowski to victory), what's likely to happen is that drivers not eligible for the championship (or in Joey Logano's case, locked into the next round) will almost certainly help teammates that are in the Chase. There are some interesting dynamics going into Talladega, though. For instance, will one of the HMS drivers not championship-eligible help Jeff Gordon, who's retiring at year's end, and how will Roush Racing, Richard Petty Motorsports, and even possibly Front Row Motorsports, which does run well at the plate tracks, help Brad Keselowski to get two Fords into the next round of the Chase, because it's almost certain that the Ford brass will get the Ford teams on the same page, as far as getting Brad into the next round is concerned. We know that, unless qualifying is washed out, that the Wood Brothers are going to be there to assist the Penske team, but how will the other Ford teams (Roush, RPM, and Front Row) get Brad into the next round. Saying all that, should there be an early crash (or other kind of problem) that knocks out the bottom four drivers in the points (Kyle Busch, Ryan Newman, Dale, Jr., and Matt Kenseth), some of the pressure may be removed from the second through eighth place teams entering Talladega, though they'd still have to finish the race to advance. 336. Ryan W posted: 10.18.2015 - 8:39 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Anyone that thinks Joey Logano did anything wrong needs to be banned from this site. I don't like Logano or Kenseth, but with Kenseth's blocking tactics he opened himself up for that to happen. I commend Logano for not laying back and doing his best to keep solid drivers OUT of the Chase. I know Kenseth was doing what he had to do, but he can't be mad about that. That was an awesome finish. I was more impressed with how Logano was able to find another line to catch up with Kenseth instead of the "dirty air" philosophy prevailing once again. I wouldn't be surprised if Kenseth did something to cost Logano a chance to move to the championship round. Kenseth has been known to block down the stretch. 337. Evan posted: 10.18.2015 - 8:39 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Unfortunately, its two drivers going for the same piece of the lead. Kenseth had it and Logano was gonna do whatever he had to win and get around him. Matt Kenseth blocked him once, that's okay and the second time he tried to block Logano's advance on him, Matt just came down on Joey Logano and Logano got into him and around he went. Kenseth needed this race really bad and Logano needed it as well. That's just racing, but you gotta give Matt credit for saving that car. Luckily he didn't take one or two other drivers with him. The words "that's racing" can be said for a lot of things that happened today. Now Matt Kenseth and Dale Jr. NEED to win Talladega to have any shot of making it to the next round. Anything can happen at Talladega and usually does, and Junior goes there as the favorite since he won there in the spring and brings the same car he had then, but with Mountain Dew colors. 338. Captain51 posted: 10.18.2015 - 8:43 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) So.. is it safe to say that Roush-Fenway is starting to show signs of consistent improvement? Also.. call me a Blaney 'Fan Boy' if you would, but there's nothing more that I'd like to see than Ryan in a full time Cup ride. I feel like it's going to happen, it's just that Roger Penske and the Wood Brothers have quite figured out how to both benefit from this. 339. 1995 Subaru WRX STi posted: 10.18.2015 - 9:12 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) "Another good race at Kansas. In my opinion, Kansas is probably the most underrated track out there. Although it doesn't really deserve two dates, it is probably the third best 1.5 track besides Homestead and Atlanta." Like i said before, 3 years after a repave and they are already rim riding. Kansas is underrated. Who ever did the repave did a hell of a job. 340. someone posted: 10.18.2015 - 9:17 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) 338: I need to see a little more improvement out of RFR before I can say they're consistently improving. Stenhouse has improved greatly in recent weeks, consistently running in the top 15; however Biffle and Bayne still run in the mid 20s fairly often. With that said, I am pretty optimistic for them next year. All three of them ran fairly well at Kentucky and Darlington (until they crashed), where they used next year's aero package. Honestly, if Stenhouse continues his current momentum into next year, I wouldn't be surprised if he makes the chase next year. 341. BMan0213 posted: 10.18.2015 - 9:24 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Like i said before, 3 years after a repave and they are already rim riding. Kansas is underrated. Who ever did the repave did a hell of a job." I think it has less to due with the repave and more to do with the weather. harsh winters and hot summers can cause a mess to the pavement. Lucky for us fans that kind of what we want since a "rough" track will produce some good racing 342. Big Mac Fan posted: 10.18.2015 - 9:34 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I think that the common myth among most older fans is that no cookie cutter tracks are good. Well the banking, the pavement, and the aero package can all change that, and I think Kansas, along with Atlanta and Homestead are some of the better cookie cutters, but because they're 1.5 miles, they fall under the radar. Meanwhile Chicagoland and Texas (I live near the track and even I will agree with this), are probably the worst cookie cutters. And I also partially take back what I said at 257. You obviously don't have to like every team and you don't have to like their dominance. Having a rival team to root against makes you a fan. It's just that when the dominance is so antagonizing that you will no longer watch the sport, I just don't like when people say that. So I apologize if I made anyone mad. 343. PenskeGuy posted: 10.18.2015 - 9:37 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I would also like to see Ryan Blaney in a full-time ride. I think the logical step would be getting him full-time in the Xfinity or Cup Series next year (I'm leaning towards Cup since I think he can make a good career for himself and that he's ready). 344. Big Mac Fan posted: 10.18.2015 - 9:40 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) In order for that to happen, it's going to come down to the s-word: sponsorship. NXS seems unlikely unless they make a 2nd car because Discount Tire want Brad and Joey in the car. And we don't know if Penske can gather anything at the cup level. 345. BMan0213 posted: 10.18.2015 - 9:41 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) @342 I don't think Homestead falls under the Cookie Cutter category. Yeah it's 1.5 miles but it's a different shape from the other 1.5 mile tracks. 346. Big Mac Fan posted: 10.18.2015 - 10:01 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Great job Joey hope you're happy winning on a cheap shot move like that." A "cheap shot" would be wrecking someone for no reason. Kenseth was blocking insanely hard the last few laps, mainly cause his season was riding on it and I don't blame him, and was probably going to end both of their days if the two kept at it. And Gordon Chicagoland 2006 doesn't belong here. Matt spun Jeff at the very end of the Bristol race that year, even though it was an accident, and Gordon payed him back. It wasn't like he did it for no reason. With that said Matt has been on the short end of the stick a couple of times. But he has done great this season and he will most likely surpass 1000 laps led this season by Homestead. But if he wants this title, he's going to have to give his all next weekend, 347. PenskeGuy posted: 10.18.2015 - 10:02 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Unfortunately Big Mac Fan, you're right. I'm afraid Ryan will once again run part-time next year. But at least I've been able to watch him outduel Kyle Busch at Bristol last year, along with his aggressive restart moves and placing the Wood Brothers in the Top 10 today. 348. StenhouseFan17 posted: 10.18.2015 - 10:03 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) #17 sponsor: Kimberly-Clark/Fastenal 349. cjs3872 posted: 10.18.2015 - 10:08 pm Rate this comment: (1) (1) Exactly, BMan0213 (#345). For those that haven't been NASCAR fans for more than 20 years, the Atlanta Motor Speedway used to be shaped like Homestead is, a 1.5 mile oval (1.522 miles, to be exact) that was a true oval, with turns and straightaways of equal length, and they put on some great races at that track in it's configuration, with the 1992 finale probably being the greatest and most dramatic race in the track's long history. That track had 24 degree banked turns, and the turns made up about two-thirds of the distance of the track, which made handling of utmost importance. My only beef with the race at Homestead is that it's only 400 miles. Those that have seen my posts over the years that I've been posting here know that I prefer the season-ending race to be a 500-mile test, because that tests not only the drivers, but also the machinery, which I don't think is put to the test in a 400-mile race. Not to mention the fact that the 500-mile race has always been auto racing's test of champions, going all the way back to 1911. 350. Big Mac Fan posted: 10.18.2015 - 10:52 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Brad Keselowski's 10th pole and his 100th top 10. 351. The Long Shot posted: 10.18.2015 - 11:51 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) I don't think either Kenseth or Logano were at fault. Kenseth was blocking aggressively because his championship hopes are in serious jeopardy if he doesn't get this win, and Logano wasn't able to react fast enough to avoid turning Kenseth. It really was the prime example of a true "racing deal". Not that this is an earth-shattering take or anything, but I have to think Logano is the championship favorite at this point. 352. 1995 Subaru WRX STi posted: 10.19.2015 - 12:15 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "I think that the common myth among most older fans is that no cookie cutter tracks are good. Well the banking, the pavement, and the aero package can all change that, and I think Kansas, along with Atlanta and Homestead are some of the better cookie cutters, but because they're 1.5 miles, they fall under the radar. Meanwhile Chicagoland and Texas (I live near the track and even I will agree with this), are probably the worst cookie cutters." Disagree about Chicagoland. Has not been repaved since it was built and now has a groove from the bottom too the wall. ACS is better then people give credit for. And just because a track looks the same too another does not mean they drive the same. 353. Eric posted: 10.19.2015 - 12:38 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Big Mac Fan, Your comment is way off by thinking most "the common myth among most older fans is that no cookie cutter tracks are good". The fact is older fans remember the classic races of Atlanta. I am talking the Dale Earnhardt Sr. barely beating Bobby Labonte in spring of 2000, and the Kevin Harvick barely beating Kevin Harvick in 2001. The 2011 Labor day race of Jeff Gordon beating Jimmie Johnson was another good race there. When you are talking older race fans, they tend to look at the younger 1.5 mile tracks not that great and homestead before the progressive banking. The early Las Vegas Races were a prime example of that except for the classic Ward Burton and Jeff Burton battle for the lead before they changed the banking of the track. The problem with Charlotte with old school race fans is what Humpy Wheeler did to the track by taking away the bumps. If you really taking fans of NASCAR that followed them for 20 to more years, Atlanta and Charlotte are classic NASCAR tracks. The problem with Charlotte is taking away the bumps and the struggles NASCAR had with the last 2 generations of cars after COT first appeared in a race. NASCAR really did a number on aerodynamics with the 5th and now the 6th generation of cup cars. They are hoping that the less downforce package would work. 354. Big Mac Fan posted: 10.19.2015 - 12:42 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) 353, I know most fans like Atlanta and Charlotte because they both have a lot of history and good races. When I said that most thought that most cookie cutters weren't any good, I was referring to the newer tracks like you stated. And I probably should have just used fans in general because the majority prefer short track races the most, although I think any kind of track is fine. 355. Big Mac Fan posted: 10.19.2015 - 12:45 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) @352 Yeah I'll have to agree, Chicagoland is a decent track, I just find the other 3 I listed better. 356. 88&4Fan posted: 10.19.2015 - 10:13 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) In my opinion the good 1.5 mile "cookie cutter" tracks (not including Homestead since its shaped differently) are Atlanta, Kansas, and Charlotte. I include Charlotte because it has produced some great races over the years, even recently. The 2005, 2007, and 2011 Coke 600s are classics, as are the 2009 All Star Race and the 2002 Fall race. Even this years Coke 600 I thought was fairly decent. Texas is debatable as to whether it is a "good track" as it used to put on some great racing back in the mid-2000s but has become a snorefest lately. And then you have Las Vegas, Chicago, and Kentucky, which are the cure to insomnia although Vegas usually puts on a good show for the truck series. 357. racefangurl posted: 10.19.2015 - 10:18 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) 340, they all were top-20 today. If more of that happens, then it's safe to say Roush is better. At least couple of the Roush drivers had some trouble with handling during the race, though. Anyone can have that, but it's common with Roush. I'm still convinced if the Roush cars were as good as they were a few years ago, the races would look more like this one (all the Roush drivers at least top-20 more of the time than they have been). 358. racefangurl posted: 10.19.2015 - 10:30 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) 356, Kentucky, Chicago and Vegas (other than Trucks) may be better with the lower downforce and Texas may improve again. Texas and Vegas have the best shot, due to Texas's history and Vegas' Truck races, which seem to indicate the package is an issue at these tracks. The others, we just have to wait and see. On the Kentucky comments, there was mention of the cars being on the edge, which was said to be more how it should be. 359. JJ48stats posted: 10.19.2015 - 1:01 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) Jimmie Johnson 10th top 3 finish of the season. 360. Premium Doesn't Suck 62 66 94 98 posted: 10.19.2015 - 2:49 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Sponsor updates: #38 Love's Travel Stops-TirePass #62 Becker Auto's & Trailers #42 Target/Axe Plaid #9 Sonic Drive-In Restaurants #55 Aaron's Dream Machine Online Version (consistency) #16 Roush Performance Products 361. Schroeder51 posted: 10.19.2015 - 3:27 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) ...I just realized by looking at the front page, the Modified championship trophy... ...is actually BIGGER than the Sprint Cup championship trophy. Tell me, how much sense does this make? 362. cjs3872 posted: 10.19.2015 - 3:46 pm Rate this comment: (2) (0) How can the 2005 Coca-Cola 600 be considered a classic, @356? Sure it had a fantastic finish, but that's about all it had that can be considered positive. In that race, there were a Sprint Cup record 22 cautions, the track tearing up, tires that couldn't last, which was what set up that incredible finish, and crashes all over the place. That race was an unmitigated disaster. In fact, the track surface at Charlotte was so bad that year that NASCAR considered shortening the fall race because the tires couldn't even last 30 laps when a full fuel run was more than 60. That's like saying the 1992 Indianapolis 500 was a great race simply because it had a great finish, because that race was a total disaster from BEFORE the race even started (85 of that race's 200 laps, or 42.5 % of the race, was run under caution because of all the wrecks that day). I don't disagree with the 2011 Coca-Cola 600 being a great race, because that race was dripping with drama, and a somewhat backward looking finishing order due to the way that race ended. The results of 2007 Coca-Cola 600 was the definition of a Bizarro NASCAR finishing order, again due to fuel mileage and a great portion of the field wiped out by early crashes, and the finish of the '08 Coca-Cola 600 was no less bizarre, with Tony Stewart having the race locked up before the decision not to take tires on the final pit stop resulted in a flat tire. The races in 1998 and 1999 were definite classics. But NASCAR's in a really tough spot regarding how to make the racing better on the intermediate tracks, because I thought taking horsepower away would slow the cars down. While it has done that in a straight line, what I didn't see coming was that the cars have actually SPED UP in the corners because of the lower horsepower, and I'm not sure I like the idea of having them run wide open all the way around. But there's almost no way for NASCAR to make the cars to where they can race close to each other, because the more downforce they take away, the more it's going to spread the field out because it will actually make the cars LESS able to run close together. That's been proven numerous times over the years. The best race of 1998 may have been that year's finale at Atlanta, when they ADDED downforce to the cars, which made the racing better than it had been all year. And Goodyear can only go so far with the tires, because if they go over the edge and make the tire compound too soft, the result might be more races like the 2005 Charlotte races and the 2008 Brickyard 400 fiasco. So NASCAR and Goodyear are in an almost impossible situation, in regards to how to make the racing better. 363. Eric posted: 10.19.2015 - 5:30 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I am happy that CJS3872 didn't call the 2005 Coca-Cola 600 a classic and he beat me to the punch. The 600 and the fall race that year were terrible races. The fall race had problems with the tires also like CJS3872 mentioned. I think the best way to make the intermediate tracks better for racing by having the car depend more on mechanical grip. I am saying that due to take a look at 1987 all Race, 1989 all star, 1992 all star race and the 1995 all star race. All those all-star races didn't have the aerodynamics of today's cars, but yet the 1992 all star race was a classic. The other way to improve the races at the tracks at least for Charlotte is a an exemption rule for the first round of the chase. If a Driver wins Daytona 500, All star race, Coca Cola 600, Brickyard 400 or the Southern 500, that driver automatically qualifies for the 2nd round of the chase. I know I would be accuse of creating a demolition derby for the all star race, but it would stop teams for using the all star race as a test secession and cause the drivers to go all the way out for a win since there is no points in the race, but Money and a chance to make it automatically to the 2nd round of the chase. 364. Premium Doesn't Suck 62 66 94 98 posted: 10.19.2015 - 5:33 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Entry list for Talladega is up. 45 teams/drivers are listed including: Ryan Blaney in the #21 Bobby Labonte in the #32 Travis Kvapil in the #33 Josh Wise in the #34 Timmy Hill in the #62 Michael McDowell in the #95 Michael Waltrip in the #98 (MWR entry) 365. 88&4Fan posted: 10.19.2015 - 5:46 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Actually the 2005 Coke 600 is one of my favorite races. Not because of all the cautions although that certainly makes it memorable, but I loved the way the race played out and guys who weren't up front all race long were there at the end like Labonte and Nemechek. To each their own though I guess. I think the 2007 race was better though, mainly because of the top five. 366. Scott B posted: 10.19.2015 - 5:59 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Michael Waltrip in the #98 (MWR entry)" (at Talladega) MWR prepped Toyota running for Premium Motorsports(a team that usually fields Fords and Chevies), with Mike Curb as the official listed owner. The confusion factor is strong with this one. 367. Chad's Hair Plugs posted: 10.19.2015 - 8:45 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) @366, owners points/qualifying attempts in case of a rainout. 368. John Royal posted: 10.20.2015 - 5:50 am Rate this comment: (1) (0) I don't understand why Waltrip doesn't run one of his own cars at Dega. Maybe he doesn't want to wreck any of those cars as they need to be sold after the season. 369. 88&4Fan posted: 10.20.2015 - 9:29 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) He is running one of his own cars, he's just using Pr****m's number and owner points. 370. Scott B posted: 10.20.2015 - 12:35 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Mikey might have taken the #55 seat had he not signed David Ragan to finish out the season... Ragan being a good plate racer himself. But this way, he gets a third entry that's locked in the field. 371. MAR posted: 10.20.2015 - 12:59 pm Rate this comment: (2) (0) The whole NASCAR franchisee thing there trying to do sounds horrible for the future of the sport I just read a small article of it. Its by far the most dumb thing there trying to do. 372. David posted: 10.20.2015 - 2:10 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) NASCAR has made the decision to limit the race this weekend to one green-white-checkered finish if necessary. 373. 02Justin10 posted: 10.20.2015 - 2:28 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) (In regards/response to what MAR/Post #371 mentioned.) When I saw the blurb on Jayski and then read the lengthened article on ESPN, my mouth dropped to the floor! NASCAR did a decent thing by scrapping the top 35 rule and going back to the provisional system (even though I would still like to see Cup teams being charged for each use.) But this idea floating around about cutting the field to 40 and locking in 36 cars/teams? This could be something that finally pushes my interest completely out of NASCAR Cup racing. If they give Premium a "charter" for at least one car, then they would take it, run 40th each week while collecting their generous share of tv money. *sigh.* 374. Big Mac Fan posted: 10.20.2015 - 2:46 pm Rate this comment: (2) (0) Like I said, NASCAR is doing everything to become like stick and ball sports. Their "franchises" would become the equivalent of the Los Angeles Lakers and the Green Bay Packers. This spells trouble because the 41 and 19 would NOT get a charter from their current standards (team must exist since 2013) and I expect a lot of backlash if Edwards or Busch DNQ because of this. And cutting down the field even more and making a system worse than the top 35? If this is in place next year, there will be outrage. Calling it now. 375. Anonymous posted: 10.20.2015 - 2:53 pm Rate this comment: (9) (0) "Charters", eh? Does NASCAR ever do anything these days that isn't totally idiotic? And exactly what does having smaller fields accomplish, other than fitting in with the pattern of smaller attendance at tracks, smaller ratings on TV and much smaller fan interest overall? Has Butthead Brian even acknowledged that his sport is dying? Probably not since he's the one causing it to happen. Here's a hint for you, Butthead Brian: your problem is on the track -- give us better racing and scrap "charters", "playoffs", bogus "debris" cautions, a 10,000 page rulebook in which the ink never dries, and other stupid shit that detracts from competition and fan excitement by attempting to micromanage everything. 376. Scott B posted: 10.20.2015 - 5:27 pm Rate this comment: (2) (0) If teams like Premium are chartered in, they'll most likely quickly flip their franchise to Gibbs for the #19 or SHR for the #41 to use and take the profit. They'll be able to sell the "franchise" at will. Then if they want, they could still field a small-time team and try to qualify for one of the few open spots left on the grid. It's a big money-grab idea that's been around for a long time. Doesn't really help the sport, just protects the owners already in, and makes it even harder than it already is for start-ups to gain a foothold. Reducing the field from 43 to 40 is the same as ripping out seats at a track and saying, "look, we have a sellout!" Saving face for NASCAR management. Smacking my head over that one. 377. Scott B posted: 10.20.2015 - 5:33 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I wonder how NASCAR would handle the Michael Waltrip Racing case with the chartering idea? You could transfer the #15 to a new owner since that deal is already in place, but what happens with the #55? Do the also get that team franchised in, then get to sell it off? 378. Scott B posted: 10.20.2015 - 5:34 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) *they* 379. Nathan8848 posted: 10.20.2015 - 5:56 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) I blame this more on Rob Kaufman then NASCAR. He is basically trying ruin it. First he got rid of MWR, and now this "Race Team Alliance" junk. This will destroy the low funded teams, to a point where it will only be 36 teams entering each and every week and no new ones. How will those low teams survive with this rule? 380. Nathan8848 posted: 10.20.2015 - 6:00 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I have no problem with the Talladega / Super Speedway G-W-C reduction. 381. 23andJoe posted: 10.20.2015 - 6:33 pm Rate this comment: (3) (0) We just got rid of the stupid "locked-in" deal after it proved a failure. Geinus. Sheer, unadulterated, Wile E. Coyote Super Genius. Stick a fork in it, it's done. 382. murb posted: 10.20.2015 - 7:12 pm Rate this comment: (2) (0) More than anything, I'm just so sick and tired of this irrational wannabe NFL bullshit that has been plaguing them for the past decade plus. God damn. I don't understand how these idiots don't realize that they are literally the undisputed premier racing division in North America. They ALREADY ARE the NFL of Western world motorsports (and no, I'm not counting F1 just because it's a totally separate and much more globalized animal). How they can't just be happy with already having an American motorsports monopoly is completely beyond me. Ugh. Hopefully there's someone in these meetings that is smart enough to talk them out of this garbage. Tired of it. 383. Big Mac Fan posted: 10.20.2015 - 7:49 pm Rate this comment: (5) (0) "I don't understand how these idiots don't realize that they are literally the undisputed premier racing division in North America." Here's the thing. They do realize that they are the most popular form of Motorsports in North America. But they got greedy and wanted to become the most popular SPORT in all of North America. And how did they attempt to accomplish this? They copied the #1 sport, the NFL, with playoffs, overtime, franchises, and more. And it completely backfired. Mainly because football and auto racing is like comparing apples to brussel sprouts! I just wish Brian France would get the idea that they must be like football, basketball, etc. out of their head. NASCAR was MUCH better before these gimmicks took place and the sport would be better off without it. 384. Benjamin LordLowe posted: 10.20.2015 - 8:17 pm Rate this comment: (4) (0) NASCAR would be much better off WITHOUT Brian France 385. 88&4Fan posted: 10.20.2015 - 8:17 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) This "chartering" idea may be one of the dumbest I've heard in a long time, and I'm honestly not surprised that its coming from Rob Kauffman. REALLY hope it doesn't end up happening. 386. Benjamin LordLowe posted: 10.20.2015 - 8:48 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Murb this shouldn't surprise you dude NASCAR these days is known for it's continuous & baffling levels of incompetence that would make Vince Russo look like a genius 387. Big Mac Fan posted: 10.20.2015 - 8:53 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) NASCAR is becoming like the NFL more than I realized. If this happens, 36 franchises will be battleing over the regular season for the best record to be seeded in the playoffs, which is decided by the amount of wins over franchise. In the playoffs, the franchises are seeded and go head to head, being eliminated each round. Whoever wins the finals is crowned champions and awarded rings, which would definetly make the franschise's "nation" proud. It all makes sense. 388. Schroeder51 posted: 10.20.2015 - 9:03 pm Rate this comment: (2) (0) "REALLY hope it doesn't end up happening." Me neither. But since this pretty much pisses all of us...I would put the odds of this being the new system for 2016 at 95% or higher. NASCAR's always gotta do something to piss off the hardcore fans, don't they? I seriously have no idea why NASCAR is so determined to become the racing equivalent of the NFL/NBA/MLB. They keep making all sorts of ridiculous changes to bring in the fair-weather fans, and they don't work...If they do this, I can't imagine it turning out any different... 389. BMan0213 posted: 10.20.2015 - 9:05 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) No way this happens. At least with how it's currently structured. With the rule teams would have to have been around since 2013 being part of it, big teams like SHR and JGR who have added new teams since then will not agree to it. Also teams like Penske, RCR and Roush who have room to expand would probably be against it as it would prevent their new teams from being locked into the field. 390. 88&4Fan posted: 10.20.2015 - 9:36 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "In the playoffs, the franchises are seeded and go head to head, being eliminated each round." Probably an unpopular opinion here, but I actually would like that a lot more than the current chase. As for the rest of the whole franchise idea... give me a Donny Lia bucket now please. 391. Eric posted: 10.20.2015 - 11:20 pm Rate this comment: (2) (0) I am not shocked by what NASCAR is doing in terms of dumb idea and is typical out of Brian France. Brian France wants NASCAR to be like stick and ball sports and Auto Racing isn't designed for that and that includes NASCAR. Franchising is a bad move. I thought CART/Champ had franchising and take a look at what happened to that organization. The problem with NASCAR right now is combination of things on why ratings, and attendance has went down. The gimmicks Brian France is doing for NASCAR isn't helping matters in terms of the chase. Brian France created multiple versions of the Chase since 2004, and it needs to put to rest or cut down the amount of races the chase has to this point. I can make a list of things that Brian France has done and it backfired for NASCAR starting with the stupid move of Moving the Southern 500 from Labor Day weekend and took them a long time that they admit they screwed up. 392. Eric posted: 10.21.2015 - 12:00 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Before some poster posts a message and tell me to watch another racing series, I actually follow more than NASCAR. My roots in following Auto Racing was CART/Champ Car. I follow Indycar besides NASCAR and I follow NHRA time to time. 393. Ryan W posted: 10.21.2015 - 1:32 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Nascar continues to go downhill on a steady decline since 2-18-01 394. Big Mac Fan posted: 10.21.2015 - 2:10 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Carl Edwards' 200th top 10. 395. WinstonCupStandings posted: 10.21.2015 - 6:12 am Rate this comment: (0) (1) Top 12 (that are on the big teams) 1) Joey Logano (4658) -Leader 2) Kevin Harvick (4634) -24 3) Brad Keselowski (4244) -414 4) Dale Earnhardt, Jr. (4192) -466 5) Denny Hamlin (4096) -562 6) Matt Kenseth (4071) -587 7) Jimmie Johnson (4043) -615 8) Carl Edwards (3870) -788 -Out 9) Kurt Busch (3855) -803 -Out 10) Ryan Newman (3832) -826 -Out 11) Jeff Gordon (3776) -882 -Out 12) Jamie McMurray (3749) -909 -Out 396. David posted: 10.21.2015 - 2:17 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) "Probably an unpopular opinion here, but I actually would like that a lot more than the current chase." Really? Please elaborate. "Nascar continues to go downhill on a steady decline since 2-18-01" I find it hilariously misguided to believe that Dale Earnhardt's death alone triggered NASCAR's decline. 397. OldSchoolNascarDude1 posted: 10.21.2015 - 2:29 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I'm not sure I'm a fan of this type of "franchising", due to the obvious reasons already stated. That said, if this happens on the lower level, it would effectively kill those series completely. 398. racefangurl posted: 10.21.2015 - 3:10 pm Rate this comment: (2) (0) If NASCAR wants fans, they need to look outside the ball and stick sports fans. 399. TS1420 posted: 10.21.2015 - 4:34 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Wow this "Charters" thing is about the stupidest thing I've seen proposed in NASCAR since the invention of The Chase, which means it is probably a 99.9% lock to happen. Rob Kauffman is a shady self-serving weasel that should have never been given as much power as he has been. If NASCAR is gonna do franchising they should limit each team to two or three cars, have hands-on information to their financials & implement a spending cap (ie no more excessive wind tunnel testing Super-Teams). 400. BMan0213 posted: 10.21.2015 - 4:41 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Like I said before there's no way it will happen as it is. To many big teams would be effected negatively by it. HMS is the the only full team that this wouldn't effect. Everyone else would have a car not locked in to the field or wouldn't not be able to add a car without it also not being locked into the field. I feel down the road this will become a reality, just not this version of it. 401. Chad's Hair Plugs posted: 10.21.2015 - 7:38 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Monster Energy is finally taking the leap to Cup sponsorship, becoming a co-primary sponsor on the 41 car with Haas Automation. 402. Eric posted: 10.21.2015 - 8:46 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) Ryan W, You are really overrating that Dale's death has caused all the reasons NASCAR had a steady decline. While Dale Sr. had a powerful voice in the garage, it wouldn't matter much with Brian France. Brian France multiple times has proven that he doesn't listen to the drivers and the fans. The only answer to get a rid of that issue is by getting a rid of Brian France. Brian wanted to change things in NASCAR in his own way and it backfired. Kyle Busch's injuries at Daytona was caused by Brian France not listening to the drivers last year. Drivers including Jeff Gordon told NASCAR and Brian France that race tracks need safer barriers all around the track and Kyle Busch just happened to be the driver that had to miss races due to Brian's stupidity. Brian now admitted that NASCAR screwed up, but the damage was done. Dale Sr. wouldn't have been able to prevent Kyle's injuries because Brian wouldn't consider listening to him if he was alive. 403. Big Mac Fan posted: 10.21.2015 - 8:55 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) I agree with Eric. Dale's death alone didn't send NASCAR into a decline. NASCAR was still great in 2001 and 2002. The beginning of the end happened either in 2003, when Brian first took over, or 2004, where Nextel took over and the chase began. 404. Scott B posted: 10.22.2015 - 6:06 am Rate this comment: (1) (0) Of course the Wood Brothers won't be granted a franchise... ehh, what have they contributed to the sport, right Brian? 405. Charters Think About It posted: 10.22.2015 - 8:01 am Rate this comment: (1) (2) I guess I am the only person here who actually likes this franchise/chartering idea? I think it would be good to cut the NSCS field from 43 to 40. If they do, they will create more urgency at the back of the field (just like they did with the Xfinity Series in 2013.) I also think this franchise system should be utilized in the Xfinity and Camping World Truck Series. This is what I think would work: Cup: 36 charters/40 starting positions Xfinity: 33 charters/40 starting positions Truck: 25 charters/32 starting positions Let the franchises/charters stay in place for half seasons depending on two criteria: *Chartered teams/cars must complete at least half of all laps run during the aforementioned half of the season. *Chartered teams/cars must maintain an average finish within the top 3/4ths of field per half season. (Cup-30th) (NXS-30th) (NCWTS-24th) *If a chartered team doesn't meet these two requirements, then at the halfway point of the season or at the beginning of the next their charter is given to the highest team in owner points without one, who also meets the above criteria. Plus, if the franchises will ensure these owners will get more tv money and actually not struggle to make ends meet, then I am all for it. God knows Jay Robinson, Mike Harmon, and Norm Benning could really use this. 406. TS1420 posted: 10.22.2015 - 9:05 am Rate this comment: (8) (0) ^I see Rob Kauffman has found this site. 407. Anonymous posted: 10.22.2015 - 9:40 am Rate this comment: (0) (2) So long as it doesn't affect how drivers race dramatically, then go for the franchise model. I think it is interesting. 408. Scott B posted: 10.22.2015 - 1:26 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Rethinking the distribution of TV money, and who get locked in grid spots, could both be accomplished without the idea of franchises. 409. 52 posted: 10.22.2015 - 2:27 pm Rate this comment: (4) (0) Darrell waltrip mentioned the franchise model back in the 90s. Right after he said it, Benny Parsons said that it was a horrible idea. It really is, because we need to take a step back and look at the sport. It is 100% going down the same road as CART. After all is said and done, all that will be left is Hendrick, penske, and Gibbs. After continually alienating fans year after year, even the most die-hards will give up. I have a whole list of complaints with the state of the sport, but this idea could be crippling 410. Big Mac Fan posted: 10.22.2015 - 2:31 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) At least no idea is as bad as the pit road rules that NASCAR thought of in the 90's which only lasted 3 races. 411. Scott B posted: 10.22.2015 - 4:06 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) #409, Agreed. This will result in a consolidation of power and future wealth in the hands of a few current owners. The short term result will be a barrier against newcomers challenging the status quo (which is already very difficult). The longer term result will be an inevitable showdown between the owners and NASCAR over how to divide TV money and other revenues. Not a good direction to be traveling. 412. Big Mac Fan posted: 10.22.2015 - 4:54 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) NASCAR Construction Co.: The official grandstand removal service of NASCAR. 413. MAR posted: 10.22.2015 - 5:04 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Somebody needs to build a time machine and bring bring Bill France Sr and Jr to today's current time so they can smack the living day light out of Brian for destroying something in 13 years that took 40 plus years to build the more I read into this Franchise crap it's the more dumb it sounds cutting field sizes at the cup level and basically keeping new owners from joining beyond dumb just imagine the cup series having a lockout because the owners and NASCAR officials can't agree on the t.v money deal smh... yea cancelling races until a agreement is met looks real good Brian everyone give him a standing ovation. 414. Anonymous posted: 10.22.2015 - 5:22 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) Franchising isn't nearly as horrible as it's made out to be. To me, limiting the number of cars in a race to 40 is much worse. If anything, they should do away with having a single arbitrary limit at every single track. If 45 cars show up at a track that has the facilities to easily accommodate that many, why shouldn't they all be able to race? At the same time, 43 cars is probably too many for Martinsville. Of course, this would encourage valeting, but they could restructure the purse such that earnings are based on percentage of race completed and that problem would be solved. There are some questions that need to be answered, like can the #19 ever become a franchise without Gibbs buying someone else's charter? If Carl Edwards were to win the championship in 2016, would the #19 become a franchise in 2017 or would the champion still be competing for one of 4 at-large spots each week? Of course, that's all moot because some loser like Jay Robinson will trade a charter to Gibbs for a couple of extra sets of tires or something, not realizing what future value they have in being guaranteed to make every race. But overall, I can't see this affecting the on-track product much outside of having three fewer cars on track each week. You have about 36 teams who you know for sure will be in the race each week anyway as it is. 415. Benjamin LordLowe posted: 10.22.2015 - 5:35 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Brian France destroying NASCAR's future since 2004 416. Benjamin LordLowe posted: 10.22.2015 - 5:55 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Brian France the official cancer of NASCAR 417. Tylor Thaber posted: 10.22.2015 - 6:04 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) @416 Agreed, though I probably wouldn't put it that way. 418. Sean posted: 10.22.2015 - 9:36 pm Rate this comment: (3) (0) I don't think the charters are a good idea. I think they are a worse idea than straight out franchising teams would be, which this is not. I could live with franchises in the sense where they exist in Formula One or V8 Supercars where only the full-season franchised entries were allowed to compete in most cases. To be sure one can say not having privateers entered in a small subset of races is losing something and I agree, but if you are going to do something like this, that is what you have to do. If you want to have the same teams every race, make it a straight-out franchise and offer to all teams that attempted to enter every race in 2015 and I'd throw an exception for the Wood Brothers too given their history. If you want to have open fields and to have teams enter whatever races they like, the field needs to be completely open. None of this mix-and-match junk where the overwhelming majority of the field is locked in and has a ridiculous advantage over any of the teams that aren't chosen. It was ridiculous with the initial top 35 rule when complete nonentities such as that era's Kyle Petty and Robert Yates Racing were locked in while teams like MWR and Red Bull Racing which were probably at that time better (yes, even MWR would have been better than Yates in 2007 had they been in every race I think) and it will be ridiculous again. NASCAR managed to more or less weather the top 35 rule because of Toyota's entry and the new teams like MWR and Red Bull that resulted, but there are few new entries entering this time and this would be even worse. Essentially what you are doing is creating de facto franchises because nobody is going to be able to compete with locked-in entries, so I'd say it would be better to just stop pretending you have some sort of free entry by creating some absurd have/have-not system and just franchise the teams. That would be better than the charter/de facto franchises. But I still prefer an open field to either. As for the field size, a decline from 43 to 40 wouldn't bother me much honestly. That was the standard superspeedway size for most of NASCAR's history and the bottom-feeder teams are so far off the pace and there are so few DNQs now that might reflect the current level of sponsorship and prevent the start 'n' park thing from happening again, which it likely would, as I suspect NASCAR sponsorship is going to continue to decline as I expect with most races on FS1/NBC Sports. As for the people saying franchising destroyed CART, I would not say so. It didn't help, mind you, but I believe CART would have survived the franchise system had it not been for the split. CART's franchise system was modeled after the Formula One Constructors' Association, which greatly increased the profile of the series and all its teams worldwide. The structure of FOCA was messy and the structure of CART was even messier but I don't think the conflicts of interest that resulted from team owners owning and competing in the series did much to suffocate CART before the IRL started, with admittedly one big exception of the prominent teams like Penske and Newman-Haas getting to decide which teams got the most powerful engines for a while but that largely went away with Honda and Toyota's entry to CART at about the same time as the split. Franchising did not kill CART, although the conflicts of interest as a result of the franchising eventually did but not until the IRL started. As for NASCAR's demise in terms of the quality of racing, I would go earlier than most and again reiterate 1998. The 5 and 5 rule made aero push a major factor at most tracks where it had not been before; the marketing in NASCAR reached an absurd level for the first time (NASCAR's 50th Anniversary, NASCAR's Night in Hollywood); the multi-car teams were pretty much putting all the owner-drivers and single car teams in general out of business at this time; Jeff Gordon's dominance influenced teams and sponsors in the wrong way as the sponsors decided they wanted people of similar backgrounds who didn't rock the boat while Ernie Irvan losing his Robert Yates ride for getting into a barroom brawl had a nasty side-effect of also encouraging drivers from not showing personality; the addition of the cookie-cutters; the two-door Ford Taurus which didn't exist in real life being approved which pretty much destroyed anyone's opinions of the cars as stock; the fake red flag to attempt to ensure a green flag finish at the 1998 spring Richmond race which was one of the first steps toward mega-gimmickry in my opinion; dumbing down the Winston Million as the No Bull 5; the dumbing down of ESPN's coverage. I think that is when the decline started. There have been worse seasons since, yes. 1999 and '01-'03 were definitely better than '98 and '00 which were both horrible. Most seasons since have only just had moments. The popularity peaked later because it was riding on the trend of NASCAR's high quality for several years after that, just like it took several years for NASCAR's recent decisions to be felt in the ratings or the new TV deal. Popularity is a lagging indicator of quality and while I will admit that 2001-03 were the top seasons from a popularity standpoint, the peak from a quality standpoint was about 5-15 years earlier than that. And Earnhardt's death in my opinion honestly was not a major factor in NASCAR's decline. It had already happened and (sadly) Earnhardt's death may have increased interest in subsequent races. As for Logano/Kenseth, I tended to think the spin was a bit of a cheap shot because Kenseth wasn't blocking him at the time of contact. While I can see how spinning out someone while they are blocking you is justifiable, I'm less okay with a retaliatory spinout a couple laps after the blocking. Given NASCAR's standards for almost never giving penalties for contact, I certainly wouldn't have given him one, but I still thought it was a bit of a cheap shot. 419. Big Mac Fan posted: 10.22.2015 - 10:52 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I agree with Sean. At first I didn't think the charters were a bad idea, but the complex rules turned me off to the idea, so they need to revise it a lot if they are going to go through with it, which I hope not. "'98 and '00 which were both horrible." Fair enough, I can see why you would say 1998 since Jeff Gordon put on a dominating season that hasn't been seen in the modern era in a long time. I don't think 2000 belongs there, because they still had some great races and battles like the finish between Earnhardt and Labonte in Atlanta, the Winston 500, Summer Pocono, etc. So I don't think I would fully say that it was horrible. "two-door Ford Taurus" What year was that car used? 420. Sean posted: 10.22.2015 - 11:04 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) I'm talking about the overall quality of the races. I remember an awful lot of aero push in 1998 and 2000, more than in '99 or '01-'03. '98 really only had two memorable races: the spring Richmond race which was memorable for all the wrong reasons (the R. Wallace/J. Gordon contact, the NASCAR officials not cleaning up the track properly after that incident leading to several other incidents and that bogus red flag), and the fall Richmond race which was a true classic with J. Burton outdueling J. Gordon. I guess you could argue for the Daytona 500 only for sentimental reasons (that was a romp) and Rudd's win at Martinsville because of the conditions he faced to do so, but still, that is way fewer classic races than any year prior, I believe. In '99, the racing on the regular superspeedways was a lot better (the Charlotte/Atlanta/Michigan/Pocono definitely picked up after the 5-and-5 rule was revised or dropped or whatever) but I really have few solid moments about 2000. 2000 spring Atlanta race had a great side-by-side battle at the end but Skinner made a mockery of the race before blowing an engine late so not sure I would say it was a memorable race overall (as opposed to 2001 which had a photo finish but was close almost the entire race). Mayfield's cheap shot of Earnhardt was sort of fun but mostly I thought it was lame; at least he got his comeuppance in the other Pocono race. The Winston 500 (Earnhardt's final win) is in my opinion the most overrated race in NASCAR history. The wicker-bills turned the plate races (and most since) into completely random affairs in which raw speed and skill seem to have less to do with the result than catching a lucky draft or something. People who hype Earnhardt going from 18th to 1st in the first 4 laps ignore that even Dave Marcis went from 9th to 1st in the first 2 laps (and there were MANY other occasions of stuff happening like that in that race...it was too easy to pass so the passing didn't really mean anything, and that's how I feel about most plate races since...I feel this package ruined plate racing, and bunched the field up too much helping to lead to the conditions that led to Earnhardt's death as well). The Loudon restrictor plate race was certainly one of the most deplorable, the Daytona 500 was maybe the worst ever and that's in general when plate racing started losing its luster. A lot of rain-shortened races (not that that has anything to do with quality) I really don't have many fond memories of that season except for the competitive depth, but '01-'03 had competitive depth and more exciting races. The Ford Taurus was used in Winston/Nextel Cup from 1998-2005 but introduced in 1998 which is why I mentioned it. At the time it only came in a four-door model on the streets but was modified to be a two-door car in NASCAR, which in my opinion was the end of anybody being able to even make an argument that NASCAR cars were stock (although the 1995 Chevrolet Monte Carlo was also heading in this direction as well.) 421. Sean posted: 10.22.2015 - 11:07 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I didn't mean that as an indictment of Earnhardt's plate racing ability by the way. I do think he was the best restrictor plate driver ever (and it's not really close, even if Gordon passed him in wins, but not in winning percentage) but I just don't think ANYTHING that happened in the 2000 Winston 500 had a lot to do with skill. It was just catching lucky drafts all day. Earnhardt's peak in restrictor plate racing skill was obviously 1990 when he managed to break the draft a lot and even beat cars that were cheating (haha, Greg Sacks in that year's Winston 500). 422. MAR posted: 10.22.2015 - 11:21 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) SEAN is the best poster on this site hands down always provides great insight. But i sorta disagree with 98 being horrible i loved the 98 season 1999 wasn't that great 2000 was ok at times. And to what i remember 2002 was when the aero push really got bad. 423. Big Mac Fan posted: 10.23.2015 - 12:16 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Along with with cjs3872, I agree with MAR, Sean is the best poster here because he seems very knowledgeable and intelligent about this topic. 424. murb posted: 10.23.2015 - 12:33 am Rate this comment: (2) (0) I'm pretty much with Sean on 1998-2000 being pretty mediocre (funnily enough those were my first three years of watching, so I actually do look back with a ton of nostalgia to those years - but yes, the actual on track racing was quite poor - even 1999 was pretty uneventful outside of the short tracks and Darlington/Rockingham, and I still think that was far and away the best out of those three years). As for the early to mid 2000s, I would actually extend Sean's 2001-2003 claim all the way up through 2006. I know a lot of people probably wouldn't agree, but I really do think 2004, 2005, and 2006 were all very good years. They definitely weren't AS competitive as those previous years or had near the amount of great races, and sure, the aero-push stuff was in full swing by that point, but at the same time I still do think everything was pretty far above average in those three years, and I actually think there were quite a few "classics" in there to boot (off the top of my head: 2004 Rockingham, 2004 Spring Martinsville when you discount the delay for the track falling apart, 2004 Kansas, 2004 Homestead - even without the championship drama I've always thought that was a great race - 2005 Daytona 500, both 2005 Martinsville races, 2005 Darlington, 2006 Spring Bristol, and 2006 Fall Dover where Burton and Kenseth had what in my opinion is still one of the best duels of the past 15 or 20 years). Honestly, if we're talking about the "demise" of the quality of racing, I really think the only years where I can say that there was an absolute downward spiral where I totally loathed the product would be those COT years of 2007-2009 (and early 2010 before they put the spoiler back on). In my 15+ years of watching, those were by far the toughest years to watch. I don't think the racing has been outstanding or anything for a few years now (I do think post-wing 2010 and 2011 were very, very good years with some great competition and great races - 2012 was decent too but not as good - and last year and this year have been nice steps in the right direction), but I personally don't think we've really had an "epidemic" of sorts since those COT years. 2013 sucked pretty royally too for some reason (I guess maybe because teams were just figuring out the Gen 6 at an extremely slow pace?), but I honestly can't say I've had too much to complain about since they've totally ditched the COT. 425. racefangurl posted: 10.23.2015 - 1:19 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) 424, I first became a sports fan in 1997. That was the year I started 3rd grade and I remember liking sporty books then. I say, based on childhood memories, like remembering when there was a race called the Die Hard 500 and Dale Earnhardt, Jr. racing with his daddy, I saw 1997-2000 NASCAR. 2011 had a bunch of first-time winners. Is that at least A reason it had some great competition and races? 426. Ryan W posted: 10.23.2015 - 1:57 am Rate this comment: (0) (1) "I find it hilariously misguided to believe that Dale Earnhardt's death alone triggered NASCAR's decline." I never said that he was the main reason, but to suggest that his untimely death didn't make an impact on the state of where Nascar is today would be like saying the sky isn't blue. Nascar lost a lot of fans. I know A LOT of fans that quit watching because they liked him and only him AND I know A LOT that quit watching because they didn't get to cheer against him. A lot of fans would rather see him get beat than for their driver they pulled for to win. Economically the sport took a hit. Sure some stayed around for a little while to watch, but a lot quit watching. My father loved Dale and he no longers watches. My uncles hated Dale and they no longer watch like they used to. Even before the Chase. Now, a lot of his fans went to Jr. for the most part while some went to Harvick or both, but to say it hasn't declined some because of his untimely death is absurd. He was the last cowboy. A lot of people quit watching. His death was one reason of the decline. Brian France, has been a major part of the decline. I agree that there were some gimmicks in the late 90's that did help contribute, but it hasn't been the same since his death. The excitement just isn't like it was when he raced. And some of you are too young to realize the major significance he and some of his rival drivers made on the sport. "You are really overrating that Dale's death has caused all the reasons NASCAR had a steady decline." Again, I never said "all." I said the decline started there. You could go back to that date and very easily start there. Not saying all of it's decline is part of it, but you could start there. Darrell Waltrip even came out with a book called "The Day" and it was about how Nascar would never be the same again. Go read it. I don't really like Darrell, but he made some good points. "While Dale Sr. had a powerful voice in the garage, it wouldn't matter much with Brian France. Brian France multiple times has proven that he doesn't listen to the drivers and the fans. The only answer to get a rid of that issue is by getting a rid of Brian France. Brian wanted to change things in NASCAR in his own way and it backfired." Bill France, Jr. listened to Earnhardt quite a bit. They were friends and Bill listened to Earnhardt's opinion whether it was competition or how to help the sport grow. Brian may not have listened to other drivers, but he would have listened to Dale. If Dale Earnhardt is alive, no way is there ever a CHASE! They would have never had to have stooped to that measure or that type of system. 427. Ryan W posted: 10.23.2015 - 2:31 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "I don't think 2000 belongs there, because they still had some great races and battles like the finish between Earnhardt and Labonte in Atlanta, the Winston 500, Summer Pocono, etc. So I don't think I would fully say that it was horrible." Earnhardt was involved in the finish win or lose in all three of those races mentioned. When his career became rejuvenated in 1999 Nascar started to be more interesting again. Jeff Gordon put everyone to sleep in '97 and 1998 except for Dale's Daytona win (I know it hard to believe that a driver could finish 5th in 1997 and say that he was washed up, but that was the perception). You look at the races in 1999 that he won and they were exciting and he lost to Gordon in the 500 and the 2nd Michigan race when he came out of no where to almost win that race are what most people remember about that season and the above races mentioned in 2000. That's what I'm saying, the excitement was gone for his love and hate. The majority of fans either passionately loved or hated him. There will never be another comparison of the love or hate displayed towards any other driver like there was with Earnhardt. Since he died, the sport has been on life support, and Brian France has been trying to run it into the ground ever since he took over. "The Winston 500 (Earnhardt's final win) is in my opinion the most overrated race in NASCAR history. The wicker-bills turned the plate races (and most since) into completely random affairs in which raw speed and skill seem to have less to do with the result than catching a lucky draft or something. People who hype Earnhardt going from 18th to 1st in the first 4 laps ignore that even Dave Marcis went from 9th to 1st in the first 2 laps (and there were MANY other occasions of stuff happening like that in that race" I know that in restrictor plate racing it's easier to come from 18th to 1st and the rules that year made it possible to do that, however, please don't take credit away from Earnhardt for putting himself in positions to get lucky at the end of that race. I've seen many times him come from the back of the pack at 'dega or Daytona years before this race took place (Go watch the 1991, '93, '95 Busch Clash on youtube, go watch '95 Daytona 500, go watch some of the qualifying races at Daytona, or the 2nd Talladega race in '99). He PREPARED himself to get lucky. He had to choose the right lanes and at the same time maneuver in and out of holes that sometimes weren't there. Who it was, the timing of when it was, who he passed, and how much money was on the line for him to win the race is why it's one of the greatest Nascar races of all time. There were a lot of lead changes for that race. 428. Scott B posted: 10.23.2015 - 11:25 am Rate this comment: (1) (0) Sean, I actually liked the concept of the Top-35 rule, except for the cutoff needing to be set much higher in the point standings (around 25th would be fair IMO). Under that system, at least teams had to earn the guaranteed place on the starting grid by putting a competitive car on the track, not just showing up every week. I think it's much better to have a fluid system like that rather than teams having an iron-clad promise of being locked in for a whole season or longer. I've been using "charter" and "franchise" interchangeably, but you are correct there are differences. Either one will create a very nearly "closed" system as far as excluding new teams, though. 429. Big Mac Fan posted: 10.23.2015 - 1:24 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "2004, 2005, and 2006 were all very good years." I agree. That stretch was awesome as well. Even though it wasn't Winston anymore and there was the Chase, the racing was exciting those years and it was very fun to watch. But yeah, the CoT basically killed competitive side by side racing for the most part and it inadvertently started the decline in viewership. 430. John posted: 10.23.2015 - 1:36 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Sean ever since 2008 Jeff Gordon has been HORRENDOUS on plate tracks. Honestly, he's one of the worst in the field. Plate Racing is more dependent on what team has the "good plate track setup" than people realize, and he's only strong on them now a-days when Hendrick has the plate setup figured out just like they do this year. (Example: July Daytona Race. The drivers say the Daytona 500 is tons of luck, but the good teams succeed at the July race because of how can manipulate the car setup on plate tracks at night and low temps.) The top 3 plate track drivers of all time IMO are Dale Earnhardt, Dale Earnhardt Jr., and Richard Petty. 431. Chives5150 posted: 10.23.2015 - 1:38 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I stopped watching for a a few years between 2008 and 2010. I feel like that was a pretty dark couple of years for me for the sport. I think 2007 had some pretty damn good races, actually. I know that the COT was the beginning of the downfall that would last for a few years, but the early races with the COT weren't that bad. Honestly, that's probably because the teams were still trying to figure out the car, but I still feel like for the most part of 2007 there were some decent races. 432. Charters Think About It posted: 10.23.2015 - 2:02 pm Rate this comment: (1) (7) *shakes head.* The Charter system would still have positions available for non-chartered teams to earn each week...so what is the problem? If people still want to run, they would be able too. Like I said above, I think this is a neat idea and I want to see this implemented in all top 3 divisions in 2016. Most of you all just don't like change. 433. 88&4Fan posted: 10.23.2015 - 2:37 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "I think 2007 had some pretty damn good races, actually." Seconded. I never understood why people say that 2007 sucked. Here are just a few of the races in 2007 that were in my opinion anywhere from "very good" to "classic". Daytona 500 (Harvick beats Martin, my personal favorite race of all-time) Atlanta1 (good duel with JJ and Tony at the end, otherwise meh race) Texas1 (the infamous race that led to Kyle Busch being replaced at Hendrick with Dale Jr) Martinsville1 (Johnson and Gordon duel) Talladega1 (Gordo breaks Earnhardt's record) Coke 600 (The top five alone makes this race an instant classic) Dover1 (Truex's first win) July 4th Daytona (McMurray beats KyBu) Indy (one of the most underrated Brickyards ever, good duel with Tony & Harvick) Dover2 (this race is classic Dover in a nutshell) Kansas (besides the rain and the controversy at the finish, this was a GREAT race) Charlotte2 (Jeffie has a Jeffie restart, Newman takes the lead, then blows a tire handing the win back to Jeffie) Texas2 (See Atlanta1, just replace Stewart with Kenseth) Now the only thing is, notice that there are only three races that I listed that ran the CoT (both Dovers and Martinsville1). 434. 88&4Fan posted: 10.23.2015 - 2:38 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) 432- I really hope that is a troll comment. 435. Big Mac Fan posted: 10.23.2015 - 2:45 pm Rate this comment: (2) (0) "Most of you all just don't like change." If it ain't broke don't fix it. 436. MAR posted: 10.23.2015 - 5:55 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) @430 the king never won a plate race his wins at Daytona and Talladega we're non restricted. So The Earnhardt's and Gordon are the best plate racers. And 88&4 fan 07 had some OK races but I think the only good COT race from that year was spring Bristol IMO. 437. Big Mac Fan posted: 10.23.2015 - 6:12 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Let's be honest. Plate races are all about equipment. The fastest cars will always run up front, we've seen that with several teams. For example DEI had the killer setups from 2001-2004 but both Jr. and Waltrip were out to lunch on the plate tracks for a while. Hendrick had great setups from 2004-2007 and it showed, as they won 9 plate races in that span. Their program fell off but it's dominant again as Jr. won 2/3 this year and Gordon led the most laps in the other. Even at RCR I would go as far to say that they had the killer setups in the 90's because both Earnhardt (to a greater extent) and Skinner were consistent contenders on the plate tracks. Not trying to diminish any of the drivers because their track records at Daytona and Talladega are phenomenal. But what's under the hood plays a major role as well. 438. racefangurl posted: 10.23.2015 - 6:15 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) 430 should've said Dale Earnhardt, Dale Earnhardt, Jr. and Richard Petty are the top 3 superspeedway drivers, based on what 436 said about the King. 439. 88&4Fan posted: 10.23.2015 - 7:08 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) But there is definitely talent involved in plate racing too, anyone who says otherwise is kidding themselves. The way Dale Jr was able to singlehandedly control the July 4th race this year was somewhat because he had the best car, but he was also by far and away the best driver in that race. For instance, other guys would get shuffled back and took 25 laps to get back to the front, Dale Jr would get shuffled back and it only took him 5 laps if even that to get back to the front. Here are in my opinion the best restrictor plate DRIVERS of all-time: 1. Dale Earnhardt 2. Dale Earnhardt, Jr. 3. Tony Stewart 4. Jeff Gordon 5. Michael Waltrip 6. Dale Jarrett 7. Kevin Harvick 8. Bobby Hamilton 9. Kurt Busch (before you say "but he's never won a plate race"... he has come so close so many times and has so many second place finishes that I couldn't leave him out) 10. Jamie McMurray Honorable mentions: Bobby Labonte, Matt Kenseth, Sterling Marlin 440. murb posted: 10.23.2015 - 7:53 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Here are in my opinion the best restrictor plate DRIVERS of all-time:" Not a bad list, but you're hugely missing Ernie Irvan, who I think was better than probably everyone on there except for Earnhardt, Gordon, Stewart, and maybe Jarrett. I'd also put Marlin and Kenseth in the top ten over Bobby Hamilton (I love Bobby, but outside of his 2001 season where he won Spring Talladega and almost won the Fall race as well, he was never really what I would call a great plate racer, or at least not an all time great - he IS one of the most underrated short trackers of all time though for sure). 441. racefangurl posted: 10.23.2015 - 8:04 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) 439, some drivers are good only with restrictor plates. Michael Waltrip falls into that category. There's a separate skill set for plate racing, even though some of the plate greats have been good without plates, too. 442. Benjamin LordLowe posted: 10.23.2015 - 8:33 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Hopefully the Drivers don't race in single file formation for the majority of Sunday's 500 mile race at Talladega like they did back in May. But that's probably what's going to happen for at least 75% of Sunday's race unfortunately 443. Big Mac Fan posted: 10.23.2015 - 9:03 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) @439 Your list is good, but I'm surprised you left Jimmie Johnson off of it. While he has made some bad mistakes like turning Sadler to start the big one in Fall 2005 to the 2010 Aarons 499 which I call a lane change gone horribly wrong, he still has 5 wins and 18 top 5's which is pretty good for about 50 starts. I'd swap him and Hamilton. 444. MAR posted: 10.23.2015 - 9:04 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Top 10 plate racers 1. Dale Sr 2. Dale Jr 3. Jeff Gordon 4. Tony Stewart 5. Dale Jarrett 6. Ernie Irvan 7. Sterling Marlin 8. Michael Waltrip 9. Jamie Mcmurray 10. Mike Wallace Now before I get run over with putting Mike Wallace in the top 10 all time just consider the type of equipment this man had and despite how bad the team was Mike was always in contention to win he'll last fall he even made a premium car look good numerous time he was a long shot to make the 500 and put low budget teams in the field. If he had great equipment on plate tracks I'm pretty sure he would of won at least 2-3 plate races. 445. Big Mac Fan posted: 10.23.2015 - 9:13 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Here's my list: 1. Dale Sr 2. Dale Jr 3. Jeff Gordon 4. Tony Stewart 5. Dale Jarrett 6. Ernie Irvan 7. Sterling Marlin 8. Jimmie Johnson 9. Michael Waltrip 10. Jamie McMurray Honorable mentions: Kurt Busch, Matt Kenseth, Bobby Hamilton 446. The Long Shot posted: 10.23.2015 - 9:20 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Top 10 plate racers 1. Dale Sr 2. Dale Jr 3. Jeff Gordon 4. Tony Stewart 5. Dale Jarrett 6. Ernie Irvan 7. Sterling Marlin 8. Michael Waltrip 9. Jamie Mcmurray 10. Mike Wallace " Wallace is underrated without a doubt considering the equipment he's had to drive, but I don't think an argument can be really be made for him over guys like Harvick and Kenseth. Some other names worth consideration: --Fireball Roberts: won 7 of Daytona's first 19 races --Richard Petty: not known specifically for his plate racing, but has more 500 victories than anyone else, 13 total plate victories --Cale Yarborough: kind of similar to Petty; 13 total victories, 3x 500 winner 447. Big Mac Fan posted: 10.23.2015 - 9:27 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) And I forgot to put Harvick in honorable mentions. @446 While they were good at the two tracks, restrictor plates weren't added until 1988 which is why we didn't include them. 448. 88&4Fan posted: 10.23.2015 - 9:53 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) 440- of course, how could I forget Swervin' Irvan? Definitely top ten, but not above any of the Dales. And to the people who brought up Mike Wallace- equipment really doesn't matter quite as much at the plate tracks, but that being said, he was always a great sleeper pick as was his brother Kenny. I don't think I'd put either of them in the top ten though. Top 25 probably, but not top ten. 449. Anonymous posted: 10.24.2015 - 7:34 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Y'all do realize there were NO restrictor plates when Fireball Roberts raced? Hell, all of Buddy Baker's superspeedway wins came without plates as did most of Cale, LeeRoy, Richard, and Darrell's. 450. John posted: 10.24.2015 - 7:40 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) I'll do my top 10 plate drivers in a bit, but is anyone as surprised as I on here that NASCAR isn't lowering the speeds of these cars at the plate races? I mean they're basically doing nothing. Also, am I the only one who things that there is a very strong possibility that a fan going to a Daytona or Talladega race may end seriously injured or killed? That should not happen at any sporting event, and I thing that within the next 20 years there is a chance we will see it happen. 451. Sector posted: 10.24.2015 - 8:11 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Since we're posting Top 10's All Time Best Restrictor Plate Drivers: 1) Dale Earnhardt 2) Dale Earnhardt Jr 3) Jeff Gordon 4) Ernie Irvan 5) Sterlin Marlin 6) Tony Stewart 7) Jimmie Johnson 8) Dale Jarrett 9) Matt Kenseth 10) Kevin Harvick Honorable Mentions: Clint Bowyer, Michael Waltrip, Mark Martin I believe my list is very on point. The top 5 should need no explanation. Reason why I put Stewart as #6 is because I believe he only really shined at the 4th of July Daytona ones on sealing deals. Sure, he's had beastly cars at the 500 & 'Dega races plenty of times (Let's face it, he was damn lucky to win Talladega when he did), but this is where I'm putting him. He's four laps shy to lead to reach 1,000 laps lead at Restrictor Plate races. Might as well try to be the 5th to do so, has 5 starts left! Oh yeah, this is all excluding the other series. So please don't bring up Xfinity. Jarrett & Johnson are a toss-up so enjoy arranging them. Now why did I mention Bowyer? Well believe it or not, currently he has the 3rd best average finish among all drivers with 10+ starts, not far ahead of both Harvick and Irvan. He's really not that bad. Why didn't I put Waltrip up there? I don't know, he just joined DEI at the right time, otherwise I don't think he would even be recognized as he is now for these race tracks. You can switch him with Harvick if you want, but I'm sticking with Harvick on this one. I don't see why some people put Mike Wallace and Bobby Hamliton up there. Sure, might as well throw David Ragan or Jamie McMurray in the mix, but in all honesty, they really aren't better than the top guys I've already suggested, from Earnhardt to Waltrip. I've tried to average it all out from top 5's, top 10's, wins, laps led, average finishes and victories, including a little bonus for poles if they won a ton. Let's not forget, the twin races and shootouts should also be included. 452. Sector posted: 10.24.2015 - 8:17 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Whoever listed Bobby Hamilton has top 10 best restrictor plate racer of all time, should probably check in to his history. I don't see how they came up with him at all. Also let's note, Brad Keselowski does have 3 wins already, all coming at Talladega. He hasn't even led 100 laps at restrictor places total yet. 453. BMan0213 posted: 10.24.2015 - 10:25 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Sorry but I got to laugh at anyone that has Jimmie in their top 10 for all time plate racers. Yeah he might have 5 plate wins but when he isn't in victory lane at those tracks he's normally wrecked. Just look at the finishes between his two Daytona 500 wins I think hes best finish between them was like 27th. IMO he's probably at the back half of the top 10 for just active drivers at the plate tracks. When you factor in all the retired drivers I don't see how he cracks the top 10 when it comes to all time. 454. Big Mac Fan posted: 10.24.2015 - 10:38 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Sorry but I got to laugh at anyone that has Jimmie in their top 10 for all time plate racers." Sorry but I got to laugh at a statement like that. Sure he has made some stupid mistakes (I listed some), but he has 5 wins, 18 top 5's, and 25 top 10's in 55 starts, so almost a top 10 in half of his starts. He also has 693 laps led. And in average finish, let's see who he's in company with: Jeff Gordon 16.7 Jimmie Johnson 16.9 Tony Stewart 18.1 So you could make the case that he's better than Stewart as they have the same amount of wins and Johnson has a better average finish as well as 2 500's. 455. BMan0213 posted: 10.24.2015 - 12:00 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) @454 I honestly feel like half of Jimmie's laps led on the Plate track have come since 2013. From 02-12 he really wasn't a good plate racer. Your putting way to much stock into the finishing results. You have to watch the races as a whole and digest the moves they make on the track. Johnson more often than not makes the wrong moves when they matter most. The majority of his plate wins have been with the best car no questions asked. I've never seen him been able to take just a decent car at plate track and put it in a position to win. On the other hand I have seen him a number of times at the plate tracks take the best car and race his way out of the win with it. Like I said he's back half of the top 10 with just ACTIVE drivers. I'd put Jr. Gordon, Stewart, Harvick, Bowyer, Kurt Busch, Keselowski, Kenseth and possibly even McMurray ahead of Johnson and like I said that's just the active driver. Even if I didn't put McMurray ahead of him that's still 8 drivers. Two easy ones I can think of off the top of my head that were better that aren't active are Dale Jarrett and Dale Sr. and boom Johnson is already out of the top 10. Saying he's not a top 10 plate driver isn't as dumb as you think. In all honesty he's probably barley top 15 maybe even out of it. 456. Sean posted: 10.24.2015 - 12:05 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) 1. Dale Earnhardt 2. Jeff Gordon 3. Ernie Irvan 4. Sterling Marlin 5. Dale Earnhardt, Jr. 6. Dale Jarrett 7. Tony Stewart 8. Kevin Harvick 9. Jimmie Johnson 10. Davey Allison Ryan, I don't think Earnhardt is arguable in the #1 position but I think people citing the 2000 Winston 500 as his greatest race ever when people (even many bad drivers) randomly shuffled their way to the front due to catching lucky drafts, who would not have won without a shove from Kenny Wallace and Joe Nemechek. If you have to rely on drivers like that to help you win, how much skill is involved really? (Not dissing Nemechek, but come on). Earnhardt's true greatness was in the early '90s where he won Busch Clashes going from the back to the front in both segments in a lap and a half, actually managed to break the draft by himself by as much as 25 seconds in the 1990 Daytona 500, beat cars that were cheating (Sacks in the '90 spring Dega race, Spencer in the '94 spring Dega race), etc... My personal choice for best Earnhardt plate win would have to be the 1991 DieHard 500 where he managed to keep holding everybody off with minimal GM support (and dominated the race) while the likely faster Fords kept shooting themselves in the foot because they couldn't decide which one should challenge Earnhardt (I was so impressed with Logano's Daytona 500 win this year because it sort of seemed similar to this one, as he seemed to be the only one fighting the dominant Hendrick cars all race and managed to take the race from them). That race was a masterpiece of intimidation without him having to do something and Pearsonesque in its shrewdness by managing to control the race in such a manner that he got any possible rivals fighting each other, even though his cars were nowhere near as fast as those in 1990. THAT takes major skill. 2000, not so much... I mean Michael Waltrip won the next one, for crying out loud, and I don't cite him as the worst winner ever like the early users of this site do (Kit/DSFF), but still... I preferred the more sedate and mostly single-file plate races of the '90s where moves had to be planned out in advance to the ones starting with the 2000 Talladega race and later where either all the passing seemed to be random (instant gratification passes, let's call them) and with no thought. The '90s plate races were a chess match. The '00s/'10s often were Russian roulette. The '90s races required thought and skill to control a race, while the '00s/'10s races required the fastest car and luck, mostly. Passing becomes more valued when it occurs the rarer it is. There's a reason for instance Alex Zanardi's pass in CART at Laguna Seca is so celebrated (because hardly anybody ever passed there, especially that part of the track), while is there really any restrictor plate pass held in the same esteem when they tend to happen constantly? That doesn't mean I'm never impressed by plate races now (I was impressed when Keselowski HAD to win and made it happen at Talladega last year, and I was impressed by Logano's Daytona 500 win this year, especially considering they are the only competitive Fords and didn't really have a lot of support from each other as well), but it does explain why I have a bias towards the '90s drivers and against the later ones. It seemed to me EVERY time Junior won a plate race, he had overwhelmingly the best car, and I'm not sure what HE did to make the #8 and #88 better, which is why I have put him below Irvan and Marlin who did what I'm not sure others would have done in their cars (Marlin was usually doing better in plate races in the #22 than Elliott/G. Bodine were in the #11, and was threatening for wins in the #40 when his teammates were doing nothing, Irvan elevated the #4 and the #28 I would say...sure, Davey won plate races in the #28 and Irvan didn't, but Irvan led the most laps in all four plate races in '94, which is still one of the best plate seasons I've ever seen...ignoring Spencer's cheating he would have finished 2-2-1-2 being beaten by only Marlin once, Earnhardt once, and Elliott once, unless Elliott also had the same cheater package that Spencer had last year since they were both Junior Johnson teams, then it would have been 2-2-1-1). When Junior was dominating plate races, he always had teammates doing well, and I think other drivers would have replicated his results in that car more than what Irvan and Marlin were doing when they were. Bobby Hamilton replacing Marlin in the #4 car and the team going from competitive on plate tracks to suddenly not says a lot I think, since I do think Hamilton was a good driver. Johnson has too many wins to ignore I think. Yes, in his early plate career he was more famous for stupid crashes (2005-07) and questionably legal cars (2006 Daytona 500), but he did steadily improve, and I think he's been rather close to Junior as a plate driver since Junior's arrival at HMS. About the only thing that HASN'T changed about plate races is one thing that they do measure that other tracks don't measure that much, and that is killer instinct. Drivers who have it (i.e. those capable of passing other drivers on-track in any race) will shine, while more conservative drivers who lack killer instinct won't do much unless they have a dominant car. I invented the term 'natural wins' to reflect wins where the winning driver took control of the race by passing the driver who previously controlled the race on-track, as opposed to races decided in the pits or the leader encountering trouble, etc... Irvan, Marlin, and Harvick had the highest three percentages of natural wins as a share of total wins, and I don't think that's coincidence in terms of reflecting their plate track ability. Drivers who were more conservative invariably underachieved relative to their results elsewhere (Elliott - whose great superspeedway period was before the plates, Labonte brothers, Martin, Burton, Kahne, Rudd, post-2007 Gordon), while drivers who were aggressive usually shined. Yeah, there were two notably aggressive drivers who underachieved on the plate tracks (Ky. Busch and R. Wallace) but I think they were the only exceptions. Who knows, maybe that's another reason why I can't get this idea of Kyle Busch as the next Rusty Wallace out of my head... 457. Sean posted: 10.24.2015 - 12:13 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) BMan does make a good point about Johnson. I for one think restrictor plate average finishes mean nothing (everybody gets in wrecks they had nothing to do with), and even causing big crashes doesn't mean a lot to cause me to think lowly of someone (all the greats on plate races have caused some stupid crashes except Jarrett and Marlin, and I might just be forgetting incidents in their case). Johnson is both top 10 in wins and average percent led and I believe I listed every other driver that was top ten in both of those, so I think he belongs. But I'll also add that I see the top seven or eight I listed as WAY BETTER than anyone else/elite, and I see a rather large dropoff between 7 and 8 as well as 8 and 9. 458. BMan0213 posted: 10.24.2015 - 12:17 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) To follow up with what I said at 455, 399 of Johnson's 693 laps led at the plate tracks have come since the first Gen6 in 2013. Yeah he's been good since they started racing in the new car, but that doesn't make up for the fact he was borderline crap from 02-12. I stand by what I said. He's not a top 10 all time driver when it comes to the plate tracks. 459. Big Mac Fan posted: 10.24.2015 - 12:28 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Great post Sean. "when people (even many bad drivers) randomly shuffled their way to the front." Since Fall 2000 I have to agree, muscling your way through all has to do with the draft. For example in the 2002 Pepsi 400, Rusty Wallace started 37th and he was up to 8th in TWO laps, and he has the reputation of being one of the worst restrictor plate racers. "The 90's plate races were a chess match." Throw in the first three races of 2000 as well and I would agree. Both kinds of races have their own distinct feel to it and I found the 90's and 2000's plate races both very exciting to watch. In the 90's there was not much passing so it was about having the best car and making the right moves to stay out front. This is also why I find the battle between Gordon and Earnhardt for the 1999 Daytona 500 a classic. Ernie Irvan and Sterling Marlin were both exceptional plate racers. Obviously MMM had a great RP program in the 90's but they carried that success over to their next teams, as Irvan was dominant at Daytona and Talladega with Yates and Marlin was always a front runner in those tracks at Ganassi, almost winning the 2002 Daytona 500 until he made one of the biggest bonehead moves I've ever seen under a red flag. "It seemed to me that EVERY time Junior won a plate race, he overwhelmingly had the best car." DEI had the killer setups in the early 2000's and as good of a racer he is at the tracks he wouldn't have had those streaks if it wasn't for the engines under the hood. However he's had success on those tracks at both DEI and Hendrick, and that is why I put him at #2. Same thing for Waltrip. DEI had the power to win the races but Michael has hardly contended for those wins with any other team which is why I dropped him to #9. "The one thing that HASN'T changed about plate races is one thing that they do measure that other tracks don't measure that much, and that is killer instinct." Thank you. While a lot of it has to do with the best car and the draft, you still have to make the right moves to go and stay out front. Besides driving in the packs is a combination of a police chase on a freeway at over 200 mph. 460. racefangurl posted: 10.24.2015 - 12:31 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) 456, so Matt Kenseth had the best car when he won the Daytona 500 in 2012? And I remember some of 2011's Daytona 500 leaders being not aggressive drivers. I guess they had really good cars? Or maybe the style in 2011-2012 was a factor? 461. Sean posted: 10.24.2015 - 12:35 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Throw in the first three races of 2000 as well and I would agree." Well, yes. The 2000 Winston 500 was THE change. I was just using the decade identifiers as shorthand, and since the 21st century started in 2001, one could argue 2000 was part of the '90s anyway. "DEI had the killer setups in the early 2000's and as good of a racer he is at the tracks he wouldn't have had those streaks if it wasn't for the engines under the hood. However he's had success on those tracks at both DEI and Hendrick, and that is why I put him at #2. Same thing for Waltrip. DEI had the power to win the races but Michael has hardly contended for those wins with any other team which is why I dropped him to #9." Yeah, I just think a whole lot of people could have won in the #8 and #15 if Waltrip was so dominant, but it does give me pause that Steve Park wasn't doing much before his injury. That and the fact that I'm less impressed by the period is why I only put Junior 5th and left Waltrip off. "Thank you. While a lot of it has to do with the best car and the draft, you still have to make the right moves to go and stay out front. Besides driving in the packs is a combination of a police chase on a freeway at over 200 mph." Right. Like you could always count on Mike Skinner fighting for plate wins and ALWAYS making the wrong move. It's only in a case like that where I might agree with cjs's 'cracking under the pressure due to a marquee race' argument. 462. Sean posted: 10.24.2015 - 12:41 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "456, so Matt Kenseth had the best car when he won the Daytona 500 in 2012? And I remember some of 2011's Daytona 500 leaders being not aggressive drivers. I guess they had really good cars? Or maybe the style in 2011-2012 was a factor?" Okay, I'll admit Jarrett was less aggressive than the other drivers I listed and Kenseth, who I just barely didn't list, isn't all that aggressive either, but I *do* think both of them are more aggressive and have more killer instinct than the Labontes, Martins, Rudds, and Burtons of the world. There's a reason Kenseth led the series in wins and Jarrett led the series in average percent led and those other drivers (who were more consistent) didn't. When I think about those drivers in a duel, I think Jarrett and Kenseth were a lot less likely to back down than the likes of Martin, B. Labonte, or J. Burton. They were more assertive, while the others were more passive. Like I think Jarrett or Kenseth would have held Kevin Harvick off in that last lap duel in the 2007 Daytona 500, while you almost had to know Martin was going to lose, just like you almost had to know J. Burton was going to lose that fall Talladega race (2012?) when he and Bowyer went out to a second lead in that tandem on the last lap. So yeah, I do think Jarrett and Kenseth were a bit more aggressive than most of the other drivers I listed, actually. I also think Kenseth likely had the best car in that race if Biffle was up there too (and he almost never did anything on plate tracks.) 2011 Daytona 500? Tandem drafting was introduced and nobody had any experience with it. That might have been one of the most Russian roulette plate races ever. I think that one had less to do with skill than most other plate races ever (sorry, although I did kind of enjoy the tandem drafting races at the time since at least there was some separation, it was more artificial than the '90s plate races as well). 463. Sean posted: 10.24.2015 - 12:48 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Let's put it this way. Matt Kenseth chop-blocked Joey Logano in this race, tried to put him in the wall, and got punted for it. Whether you think that was right for Logano to do or not, do you think Mark Martin, Jeff Burton, or a Labonte brother would have chop-blocked Logano in the first place? hahaha Rudd actually would have probably, but he was a weird case. Most of the time he was conservative, but I think it's more because he didn't know how to be aggressive and clean than a conscious choice. Most of the times Rudd tried to be aggressive ('89 North Wilkesboro, '91 Sears Point, '94 Charlotte) invariably backfired for him. 464. BMan0213 posted: 10.24.2015 - 12:55 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Jr is one or two IMO. All you have to do is watch him to see that. He's just like his Dad he knows where to go and when to go at a seconds notice. I think a good example of this would be from this year's 500. When everyone was running 3 wide Jr. somehow went from the mid 20's to like 7th in I want to say like 5 laps. I honestly feel like had the 51 not brought out the yellow late in that race Jr would have won. The way he was able to weave in and out of traffic when they were all bunched up was ridiculous. I Don't know what it is but Jr. (just like his Dad) seems to have a skill that just can't be taught. Who knows, maybe the Earnhardt's really can see the air lol. Anyways I think one and two are Sr. and Jr. the rest are just fighting for third. 465. Maverick11 posted: 03.08.2016 - 1:11 pm Rate this comment: (3) (0) https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=nONnjonc0Xw Only now have I found this, but at 1:50 is Brian France's comments on the Kansas race, and they are literally the dumbest things I've ever heard. You heard it right folks! The LEADER of NASCAR says it was a smart move by Logano to spin Kenneth so that it would spice up the points battle and have one of the best teams "on the outside looking in." Kenseth does the same thing at Martinsville and gets the hammer. What a hypocrite. NASCAR needs a new leader or it will end up in the toilet. Caution clocks, Chase Grid, and now absolute favoritism. What a joke. 466. Braindead Zombie posted: 03.08.2016 - 1:38 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) ^That sounded kind of out of character for you. Impostor? 467. Maverick11 posted: 03.08.2016 - 1:40 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) No. 468. Maverick11 posted: 03.08.2016 - 1:45 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) I guess I'm just a little disappointed when a a sanctioning body has favoritism over one of its competitors. The point of a sanctioning body is to be neutral towards all situations regardless of the person/organizations and that did not sound like it at all in that quote. 469. Braindead Zombie posted: 03.08.2016 - 1:52 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) No, I agree with you. It just didn't sound like something you would say. 470. Cornys posted: 03.08.2016 - 3:01 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Thank god there are other forms of motorsports in the United States. If there weren't I probably would no longer be a race fan. Things like are what finally made me turn back on NASCAR and walk away. I only come back to comment here, look at the results, and follow other forms of racing. 471. Post a comment posted: 04.26.2016 - 6:26 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) 465 - I'll agree with you, France should not have said that. But at Kansas Logano was racing for the win. At Martinsville Kenseth was 8 laps down. Big difference. Remember "Boys have at it" 472. Rich posted: 12.12.2020 - 9:05 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Rick Allen, Jeff Burton and Steve Letarte were the commentators. Mike Massaro, Dave Burns, Kelli Stavast and Marty Snider were the pit road reporters. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ *Post a comment:* Your comment may not appear immediately - all comments must be approved by the moderator. Name: Comment: