||


  *Comments on the 2020 Xfinity 500:*
  View the most recent comment <#359> | Post a comment <#post>


  1.   Jimmie4life posted:
  10.29.2020 - 9:04 am
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2nd to final race of the season. Who will make the final 4? From what
I've seen this year and the last few weeks, I predict Truex wins, along
with Harvick and Hamlin making it to Phoenix.


  2.   William24ByronFan posted:
  10.29.2020 - 9:19 am
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I have a feeling Reed Sorenson will ended up driving the 77. Looks like
no 49 or 78 car so we won't have a full field.


  3.   Mile501 posted:
  10.29.2020 - 9:24 am
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The Cup race is called the Xfinity 500? Yeah, that's not going to
confuse anyone...

Based on recent races at Martinsville, the Penske and Gibbs cars tend to
be the best. There is, unfortunately, a very real possibility that
Harvick could get knocked out of the final four, which would really be a
shame given the year he's had. But if (for example) Truex wins while
Hamlin and Keselowski out-point Harvick, then he would be out.

Harvick's best hope is that he has a solid day while either Hamlin, a
Penske car, or someone outside the top 8 wins this race.


  4.   DI9_ForLife posted:
  10.29.2020 - 9:44 am
   Rate this comment:      (1)      (0)

Bias alert: this may be Chase's best shot at advancing, his only shot in
fact. He'll at least have to get some stage points and hope that
everyone else gets mired in the back or something. I hope he wins on
Sunday, he hasn't been bad at Martinsville but his chances are always
ruined by a bad pit stop, a crash, a mechanical failure or Alan
Gustafson's terrible calls. I'm just hoping that he can advance into the
final four over someone like Truex or Keselowski, no matter how
deserving they may be, Chase is just as deserving.

Unbiased and even being biased, I'd still say that Chase isn't deserving
of the championship. I feel like this is just Kevin Harvick's year to
win his second championship. Hamlin will be right on his toes, but I
think it's Harvick's year. It would be a crime if neither of them won
the championship. Don't get me wrong, I'd be ecstatic if Elliott won the
championship, but I really don't think he's as deserving as Harvick or
Hamlin.


  5.   Ralphie posted:
  10.29.2020 - 9:55 am
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@4 Bowman may have a better chance of advancing than Chase does although
obviously neither one has more than a 5% probability; tied in points,
equivalent equipment, Bowman with the better starting position and
theoretically better pit stall for whatever those are worth.

In reality it comes down to whether Truex, who has the equipment to win
in any week, can crash the party with a win. Bowman doesn't get nearly
the credit he has deserved lately, but has done fabulously well to score
back-to-back top 5's. Barring a miracle that's right at the limit of his
equipment, however. He needs a lot of misfortune among Harvick, Hamlin,
Keselowski and Truex but I can easily picture him outrunning Elliott
this week.


  6.   Corey posted:
  10.29.2020 - 10:19 am
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Clint Bowyer will be running a special paint scheme he designed for this
weekends event. The car is sponsored by Rush Truck Centers. The hood
will include all the sponsors he's worked with this year while the deck
lid will include the logos of 43 previous partners Clint has worked with
over the course of his NASCAR career. SHR has a picture of the deck lid
on their twitter feed.


  7.   Mile501 posted:
  10.29.2020 - 10:21 am
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For what it's worth, when Elliott and Bowman have raced as teammates at
Martinsville (not counting last fall when both had trouble), Elliott has
finished ahead of Bowman 3 out of 4 times.

In those 4 races, Elliott has led 50 laps while Bowman has led 0.
Elliott has 2 top 5s and 4 top 10s, while Bowman has 0 top 5s and 2 top
10s.


  8.   DI9_ForLife posted:
  10.29.2020 - 10:24 am
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5, Bowman really has stepped it up in the playoffs, I could see him
being one of the darkest of darkhorses for the championship. I
personally don't see either of them making it, but it would be a dream
if Elliott did.

Martinsville could go either way, it could be a predictable race from
start to finish like both of last years were, or it could be as
unpredictable as Talladega, it all depends on who has the best car and
the amount of patience everyone has with one another.


  9.   Mile501 posted:
  10.29.2020 - 10:26 am
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@6 - That is a neat tribute. Bowyer has certainly been sponsored by a
lot of different companies during his 15-year Cup career.

Despite having only 10 wins, he won for 3 different manufacturers and 3
different car owners driving 4 different car numbers with at least 6
(depending on how you look at a couple of them) different sponsors on
his hood in victory lane.


  10.   Jimmie4life posted:
  10.29.2020 - 10:31 am
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Whatever Jimmie Johnson did in June here, I want him to do it again. He
led 68% of the total number of laps in this season in 1 race. Just want
him to keep it up for 500 laps.


  11.   Jimmie4life posted:
  10.29.2020 - 10:48 am
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On the qualifying list, there is no 36th place.


  12.   Mile501 posted:
  10.29.2020 - 11:09 am
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While Jimmie Johnson can't reach 20,000 laps led in his career, he needs
to lead 63 more laps to reach 19,000. It would be great if he could
duplicate his spring race and accomplish that! Bowyer got his time in
the spotlight at Texas; maybe Johnson can lead some at Martinsville.


  13.   RyanM posted:
  10.29.2020 - 11:24 am
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@4 Elliott has had a better season than Hamlin but people don't realize
it because the number in the win column is all they look at. Chase has
had two races where he's been wrecked out of the lead or a likely soon
to be lead late (Darlington x2, not counting Bristol since that was his
own doing), two where a caution came out seconds before he was about to
take the white flag as the leader (Charlotte and Talladega), and two
where he had an uncontrollable car problem after dominating to that
point (Las Vegas and Phoenix). Not that he'd have necessarily won all
six of those under different circumstances, but probably 2-4 of them,
and two of those eventually became Hamlin wins (Talladega still
shouldn't have been if NASCAR were consistent with their yellow line
rule). And that's not even counting Homestead where Hamlin passed Chase
because Logano intentionally held him up, as he may have passed him
anyway. But the point is, with equal luck both of them should have about
five wins this year, in which case advantage Elliott because Hamlin has
the luxury of the markedly better crew chief, pit crew, and equipment.


  14.   William24ByronFan posted:
  10.29.2020 - 4:14 pm
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66 Sponsor is Dreamworks Motorsports


  15.   William24ByronFan posted:
  10.29.2020 - 4:39 pm
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@11 Garrett Smithley is now in the 77.


  16.   Jimmie4life posted:
  10.29.2020 - 5:07 pm
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@15 I saw.


  17.   Corey posted:
  10.29.2020 - 6:01 pm
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Due to multiple Positive COVID-19 test. William Byron did not have his
regular pit crew Wednesday at Texas, nor will he have them at
Martinsville on Sunday. Instead he will have the #47 crew, who serve as
the Hendrick backups. The JTG team will use their back up pit crew which
usually pit the RWR/Spire entries.


  18.   Gopher88 posted:
  10.29.2020 - 6:20 pm
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@17, interesting. I didn't know that teams had backup crews already at
the track. Maybe that's just been devised since COVID though. Who're
RWR/Spire's backups?


  19.   Gopher88 posted:
  10.29.2020 - 6:21 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

From Jayski:

"The No. 88 team has earned 295 points so far in the NASCAR Cup Series
playoffs, which ranks second among drivers. The team has the best
average finish (8.3) and the sixth-best average running position (9.6)
in the playoffs. Bowman has run 1,768 laps inside the top 10 and owns
six top-10 finishes in the playoffs, which are tied for first. He has
the second-most top-five finishes in the playoffs with three, has the
most top-10 finishes (eight) in the last 10 races and is tied for the
longest active top-10 streak (three)."

I think it's incredible how well Bowman has done in the playoffs. We
just don't notice because of his lack of playoff points. If Harvick had
won Kansas instead of Logano, Bowman and Elliott would be currently tied
for the final points spot. Considering the horrific mid-season stretch
of races, it's really impressive that they've made the round of eight,
and have legitimately contended for the final four on points alone.


  20.   Corey posted:
  10.29.2020 - 6:42 pm
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@18 With Covid restrictions, they don't have extra personnel at the
track. What helped at Texas was that the 27 was out of the race on
Sunday so RWR wasn't going to need four crews for Wednesday. This
weekend might either be volunteers or one crew pits two cars.

The positive test also effect the #8 JRM Xfinity cars. The Cup #24 team
usually puts them on Saturdays.


  21.   joey2448 posted:
  10.30.2020 - 7:38 am
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Here is the championship picture heading into Sunday's elimination race
at the "Paperclip":

1. Logano (win)
2. Harvick +42
3. Hamlin +27
4. Keselowski +25
---
5. Bowman -25
6. Elliott -25
7. Truex -36
8. KuBusch -81

Realistically speaking, it's a must-win for all four drivers under the
cutoff.


  22.   Mile501 posted:
  10.30.2020 - 12:30 pm
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Here's a look at each driver's last 5 races at Phoenix, with this
thought in mind: Which drivers have a reasonable shot at the
championship if they end up in the final four after Martinsville?

Last 5 Phoenix Finishes:
Harvick: 1 5 9 5 2 (avg 4.4)
Hamlin: 4 13 5 1 20 (avg 8.6, won last fall)
Keselowski: 15 2 19 10 11 (avg 11.4)
KuBusch: 10 32 7 11 6 (avg 13.2)
Truex: 5 14 2 6 32 (avg 11.8)
Logano: 19 37 10 9 1 (avg 15.2, but won in the spring)
Elliott: 3 23 14 39 7 (avg 17.2)
Bowman: 13 30 35 23 14 (avg 23.0)


  23.   Canadianfan posted:
  10.31.2020 - 2:23 pm
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There is a small chance of a very light rain tomorrow early in the race.
It might be so light it won't even stop the race. The percentage drops
to almost 0% at 3:00pm.


  24.   Mile501 posted:
  11.01.2020 - 7:27 am
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The weather is looking good for today's race. The light rain that is
falling now will move out by mid-morning, and we should be good to go by
race time!


  25.   RacingDude00 posted:
  11.01.2020 - 1:04 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

well still no word from Phoenix on the official name of next week's
season finale

I don't know what year but I believe Dover was the track in Cup not to
have a company on board to have an official race name


  26.   William24ByronFan posted:
  11.01.2020 - 1:05 pm
   Rate this comment:      (1)      (0)

The 7 Paint Scheme is just like a police car.


  27.   Texas posted:
  11.01.2020 - 1:55 pm
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I don't think Marty Snider knows how the playoffs work. That, or his
math skills are terrible. Chase Elliott does not HAVE to win today to
make it to Phoenix.


  28.   Rich posted:
  11.01.2020 - 2:00 pm
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Rick Allen, Jeff Burton, Steve Letarte and Dale Earnhardt Jr. are the
commentators. Marty Snider, Dave Burns and Parker Kligerman are the pit
road reporters.


  29.   RaceFanX posted:
  11.01.2020 - 2:13 pm
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Alex Bowman has a cool new sponsor. He's running a blue #88 sponsored by
Planters peanuts, who has also been an associate sponsor on Ricky
Stenhouse, Jr. this year. No doubt Bowman the Showman would love to
honey roast the field today.


  30.   Altracing posted:
  11.01.2020 - 2:15 pm
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We're green at Martinsville


  31.   Altracing posted:
  11.01.2020 - 2:16 pm
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Truex to the lead


  32.   Altracing posted:
  11.01.2020 - 2:19 pm
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Big tire rub from McDowell's car


  33.   TeamDCRfan posted:
  11.01.2020 - 2:19 pm
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Big rub on the 34. Looked like an engine at first


  34.   Allen posted:
  11.01.2020 - 2:20 pm
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As a 4 fan, I am sweating bullets right now. Ahhh! This is not good!


  35.   TeamDCRfan posted:
  11.01.2020 - 2:20 pm
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Aaaand there it goes


  36.   TeamDCRfan posted:
  11.01.2020 - 2:23 pm
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Itd be nice if there was a way for Elliott Bowman and Kurt to advance. I
think its possible, but would require major problems for Harvick MtJ
Hammy and Kes


  37.   Altracing posted:
  11.01.2020 - 2:36 pm
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Competition caution is now out


  38.   Altracing posted:
  11.01.2020 - 2:44 pm
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Bowyer spins caution


  39.   QFH posted:
  11.01.2020 - 2:46 pm
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Almirola wasn't taking as nice to that block as Truex did last week.


  40.   RaceFanX posted:
  11.01.2020 - 2:47 pm
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Bowyer spins with Austin Dillon having to slow to avoid any notable
contact. NBC is playing "Monster Mash" as the background music for the
replay oddly, Halloween was yesterday after all.


  41.   DI9_ForLife posted:
  11.01.2020 - 2:47 pm
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I'm hoping for an Elliott win, of course, and if not a win, at least an
advancement into the championship 4. Without a win, it will be
difficult, but throw in a wreck or a mechanical failure for someone
(cough cough Hamlin, Truex) and he could advance without a win


  42.   Altracing posted:
  11.01.2020 - 2:52 pm
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Elliott to the lead


  43.   QFH posted:
  11.01.2020 - 2:54 pm
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Chase to the lead


  44.   Altracing posted:
  11.01.2020 - 2:58 pm
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Smithley has stopped on the track caution


  45.   QFH posted:
  11.01.2020 - 2:59 pm
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Caution for the 77 in the wall


  46.   Altracing posted:
  11.01.2020 - 2:59 pm
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Lots of drivers behind Elliott and Truex pitting under caution


  47.   QFH posted:
  11.01.2020 - 3:00 pm
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Doesn't actually look like he hit it, if he did it wasn't very hard, but
he did stop in the marbles in turn 4


  48.   Altracing posted:
  11.01.2020 - 3:01 pm
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Blaney was caught for speeding on pit road


  49.   Altracing posted:
  11.01.2020 - 3:01 pm
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Top 6 cars stayed out under this caution


  50.   Altracing posted:
  11.01.2020 - 3:03 pm
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Bowyer just moved Almirola out of the way


  51.   TeamDCRfan posted:
  11.01.2020 - 3:04 pm
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Bowyer was F*** You Almirola, im retiring and i dont care anymore


  52.   Altracing posted:
  11.01.2020 - 3:04 pm
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Hamlin to the lead


  53.   Altracing posted:
  11.01.2020 - 3:04 pm
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Gase spins caution


  54.   QFH posted:
  11.01.2020 - 3:05 pm
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Almirola got pushed out of the way by Bowyer on the restart. Perhaps pay
back for the incident earlier?

Hamlin to the lead


  55.   danny posted:
  11.01.2020 - 3:05 pm
   Rate this comment:      (1)      (0)

does it feel weird they play monster mash before they go to commercial
and its November 1st!!!! But they will race on Halloween next year!


  56.   TeamDCRfan posted:
  11.01.2020 - 3:05 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

Houff just dumped Gase


  57.   QFH posted:
  11.01.2020 - 3:05 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

Caution for Gase


  58.   RaceFanX posted:
  11.01.2020 - 3:05 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

Quin Houff dumps Joey Gase for some reason while racing for last. Gase
isn't pleased but who would be.


  59.   QFH posted:
  11.01.2020 - 3:06 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

QFH DUMPED HIM!!!


  60.   TeamDCRfan posted:
  11.01.2020 - 3:08 pm
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Joey Gase, who isnt very good, gets wrecked by Houff, who is arguably
worse than Gase


  61.   WhereAreTheBeers posted:
  11.01.2020 - 3:09 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

Gase v Houff, the feud we didn't know we needed


  62.   NASCARfan05 posted:
  11.01.2020 - 3:12 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (2)

Can Hamlin please miss the final 4? The last thing we need is that tool
in the running for a championship


  63.   Altracing posted:
  11.01.2020 - 3:12 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

Hamlin wins stage 1


  64.   QFH posted:
  11.01.2020 - 3:13 pm
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Hamlin wins the stage


  65.   Altracing posted:
  11.01.2020 - 3:16 pm
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Almost all the leaders pit, Kyle Busch stays out and will be the new leader


  66.   Mile501 posted:
  11.01.2020 - 3:20 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

Current standings with stage 1 points included:

4100 Logano (1 win)
4137 Harvick
4132 Hamlin
4128 Keselowski
----
4104 Bowman (-24)
4102 Elliott (-26)
4089 Truex (-39)
4041 KuBusch (-87)

(Note: This is not the same as "live standings", which factors in the
current running position, but it is just the points after Texas + stage
1 points from Martinsville.)


  67.   QFH posted:
  11.01.2020 - 3:21 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

Busch bros stayed out and will line up 1-2


  68.   Altracing posted:
  11.01.2020 - 3:21 pm
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Kurt Busch to the lead


  69.   Altracing posted:
  11.01.2020 - 3:22 pm
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Buescher has blown up caution


  70.   QFH posted:
  11.01.2020 - 3:22 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

Kurt (-81) to the lead


  71.   Chase9Fan posted:
  11.01.2020 - 3:23 pm
   Rate this comment:      (1)      (0)

Already better racing than all the cookie cutters combined. More short
tracks.


  72.   George_Costanza posted:
  11.01.2020 - 3:24 pm
   Rate this comment:      (1)      (1)

It would honestly be such an embarrassment for the season if Harvick
doesn't make it to the Final 4, and I don't even like Harvick. This
playoff format sucks beyond belief.


  73.   QFH posted:
  11.01.2020 - 3:24 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

Caution for smoke from Chris Buescher


  74.   WhereAreTheBeers posted:
  11.01.2020 - 3:27 pm
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That's just your typical Martinville stack up there


  75.   Zach posted:
  11.01.2020 - 3:27 pm
   Rate this comment:      (1)      (1)

If Harvick doesn't make the final 4, it will be the biggest black eye
for this garbage chase format yet. Even worse than Matt Crafton winning
the truck championship last year after being irrelevant all season.


  76.   QFH posted:
  11.01.2020 - 3:28 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

Buescher got into it with Daniel Suarez and John Hunter Nemecheck


  77.   Chase9Fan posted:
  11.01.2020 - 3:34 pm
   Rate this comment:      (1)      (1)

72 and 75. I miss the full season points race myself.


  78.   Altracing posted:
  11.01.2020 - 3:36 pm
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Elliott back to the lead


  79.   QFH posted:
  11.01.2020 - 3:37 pm
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Chase to the lead again


  80.   QFH posted:
  11.01.2020 - 3:42 pm
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Harvick is back in 24th and just barely hanging on in the championship
battle against Brad who is also dropping positions


  81.   Altracing posted:
  11.01.2020 - 3:42 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

Harvick on pit road for a flat left rear tire


  82.   Altracing posted:
  11.01.2020 - 3:43 pm
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Caution for Poole


  83.   Altracing posted:
  11.01.2020 - 3:44 pm
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Harvick will get one of his laps back but he's still one lap down


  84.   QFH posted:
  11.01.2020 - 3:45 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

Harvick now off pit road after an incident with the 42 and 2 laps down.
Caution is out. Harvick now below the line. 15 car was in the wall that
brought out the caution


  85.   Altracing posted:
  11.01.2020 - 3:46 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

Actually there was no free pass but Harvick will take the wave around to
get one of his laps back


  86.   Altracing posted:
  11.01.2020 - 3:48 pm
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Johnson caught for speeding on pit road


  87.   WhereAreTheBeers posted:
  11.01.2020 - 3:53 pm
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Jones screwed by his pit crew again, wedge wrench left in this time


  88.   Anonymous posted:
  11.01.2020 - 3:56 pm
   Rate this comment:      (1)      (1)

Incredible.The man who has dominated the entre year is about to not even
have a chance for the championship.
If this is not enough for Nascar to get rid of the playoffs, then I dont
know what else needs to happen for that


  89.   Altracing posted:
  11.01.2020 - 3:58 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

Caution for Lajoie


  90.   Altracing posted:
  11.01.2020 - 3:58 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

Harvick did not get the free pass


  91.   Altracing posted:
  11.01.2020 - 3:59 pm
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Actually it was Preece who spun not Lajoie


  92.   Altracing posted:
  11.01.2020 - 4:00 pm
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Few cars on pit road including leader Elliott, Hamlin will be the leader
again


  93.   Edwards2020 posted:
  11.01.2020 - 4:00 pm
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Just remember, we aren't even halfway yet. A lot IS going to happen


  94.   QFH posted:
  11.01.2020 - 4:04 pm
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Hamlin to the lead


  95.   Altracing posted:
  11.01.2020 - 4:09 pm
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Elliott back to the lead


  96.   QFH posted:
  11.01.2020 - 4:10 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

Chase back to the lead


  97.   Altracing posted:
  11.01.2020 - 4:16 pm
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Elliott wins stage 2


  98.   QFH posted:
  11.01.2020 - 4:16 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

Chase wins stage 2


  99.   QFH posted:
  11.01.2020 - 4:18 pm
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Harvick needs to get back on the lead lap if he will have any chance of
advancing due to the strength of these guys in the must win situations,
they had the top 3 spots of people who pitted on the Preece caution


  100.   DI9_ForLife posted:
  11.01.2020 - 4:19 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

So now, even if Truex wins, Elliott can advance as long as he doesn't
screw up?


  101.   Altracing posted:
  11.01.2020 - 4:21 pm
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Hamlin coming back to pit road they didn't get all the lug nuts tightened


  102.   QFH posted:
  11.01.2020 - 4:22 pm
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Hamlin will lose positions as he must make a second pit stop


  103.   Todd posted:
  11.01.2020 - 4:24 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

Did Chase legit not get any tires?


  104.   QFH posted:
  11.01.2020 - 4:26 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

If Truex takes the lead Elliott can still advance as well as Keselowski,
so neither Harvick nor Hamlin are safe


  105.   Chase9Fan posted:
  11.01.2020 - 4:27 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

As a Chase fan I know how this is likely going to end. But enjoying it
for now.


  106.   RaceFanX posted:
  11.01.2020 - 4:27 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

Great run for Corey LaJoie in 15th so far after 283 laps.


  107.   Todd posted:
  11.01.2020 - 4:30 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

This race is far from over, I doubt Hamlin is going to remain in the
back the rest of the race and even if Harvick falls out, Chase will
still need to beat Brad K.


  108.   Todd posted:
  11.01.2020 - 4:31 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

Can anyone verify that Elliott took no tires on this last stop? That is
what the graphic said but Alan said they were taking four. I didn't see
the stops.


  109.   David posted:
  11.01.2020 - 4:32 pm
   Rate this comment:      (1)      (0)

He took 4 tires. At least twice NBC has incorrectly shown him taking 0.


  110.   Todd posted:
  11.01.2020 - 4:36 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

Thank you David...trying to keep up with sets...


  111.   Pacer posted:
  11.01.2020 - 4:36 pm
   Rate this comment:      (1)      (1)

This is bullshit. Harvick has been the best driver all year and this
idiotic "Win and you're in" format is going to bump him out from one bad
run.


  112.   Altracing posted:
  11.01.2020 - 4:40 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

Johnson has a left rear tire down


  113.   TeamDCRfan posted:
  11.01.2020 - 4:41 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

Welp, Jimmies day just got worse


  114.   Chase9Fan posted:
  11.01.2020 - 4:41 pm
   Rate this comment:      (1)      (1)

111. Yeah. This format helps Chase and I still don't like it.


  115.   Mile501 posted:
  11.01.2020 - 4:41 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

Current standings with stage 1 and 2 points included:

4103 Logano (1 win)
4140 Hamlin
4137 Harvick
4132 Keselowski
----
4112 Elliott (-20)
4106 Bowman (-26)
4098 Truex (-34)
4047 KuBusch (-85)

(Note: This is not the same as "live standings", which factors in the
current running position, but it is just the points after Texas + stage
1 and 2 points from Martinsville.)


Unless one of the bottom 4 wins, Harvick can still advance to the final
four unless Elliott beats him by 26 positions or Bowman beats him by 32
positions. So he's not in as bad of a spot as it may appear, though he
is in trouble if Elliott wins.


  116.   QFH posted:
  11.01.2020 - 4:41 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

Jimmie Johnson coming to the pits with issues in his final full-time
Martinsville start


  117.   Mile501 posted:
  11.01.2020 - 4:49 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

Denny Hamlin has fallen to 17th during this run.


  118.   TeamDCRfan posted:
  11.01.2020 - 4:51 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

Keselowski with a rather unnecessary shove to Davison


  119.   Altracing posted:
  11.01.2020 - 4:51 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

Caution for Hill


  120.   Altracing posted:
  11.01.2020 - 4:52 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

Kenseth will get the free pass


  121.   QFH posted:
  11.01.2020 - 4:52 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

Caution for the #66 flat tire


  122.   TeamDCRfan posted:
  11.01.2020 - 4:52 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

Awwww, TIMMEH


  123.   QFH posted:
  11.01.2020 - 4:53 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

@117
Hamlin lost spots on a second pit stop and has actually RECOVERED to 14th


  124.   Altracing posted:
  11.01.2020 - 4:54 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

Logano wins the race off pit road and will be the new leader


  125.   A.J. posted:
  11.01.2020 - 4:54 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

And the 9 team chokes all over the most critical stop of the day. Bravo.


  126.   Mile501 posted:
  11.01.2020 - 4:54 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

@123 - Oh, thanks for the correction. I missed that.


  127.   QFH posted:
  11.01.2020 - 4:55 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

Logano to the lead. Harvick runs 28th and Elliott is 4th, that means
that Elliott needs to gain 2 spots to get to Harvick given Harvick stays
in 28th


  128.   Altracing posted:
  11.01.2020 - 4:55 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

Elliott's crew was over the wall too soon he will go to the rear


  129.   RaceFanX posted:
  11.01.2020 - 4:56 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

Penalty for Elliott! His pit crew jumped the wall too soon as he pitted.


  130.   QFH posted:
  11.01.2020 - 4:56 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

Over the wall too soon for Chase that's costly


  131.   TeamDCRfan posted:
  11.01.2020 - 4:56 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

Ugggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggh


  132.   A.J. posted:
  11.01.2020 - 4:57 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

The final four is going to be Logano, Truex, Hamlin & Keselowski.

C'mon giant meteor.


  133.   Altracing posted:
  11.01.2020 - 4:57 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (1)

Actually NASCAR has rescinded the penalty so Elliott is still in third


  134.   DI9_ForLife posted:
  11.01.2020 - 4:57 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

Why? Just why?

What a joke that was


  135.   QFH posted:
  11.01.2020 - 4:57 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

Nvm he got un-penalized


  136.   RaceFanX posted:
  11.01.2020 - 4:57 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

And now NASCAR is retracting the penalty because the crewmember caught
it and tried to get back on the wall. Okay?


  137.   TeamDCRfan posted:
  11.01.2020 - 4:57 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

Alright, NASCAR just set a precedent.


  138.   Gordon24 posted:
  11.01.2020 - 4:59 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

Chase given his spot back.


  139.   Altracing posted:
  11.01.2020 - 5:01 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

Blaney to the lead


  140.   QFH posted:
  11.01.2020 - 5:01 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

Harvick looks like he may have improved that car as he's fighting for
the free pass against Bubba.


  141.   QFH posted:
  11.01.2020 - 5:01 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

Blaney to the lead


  142.   52 posted:
  11.01.2020 - 5:01 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

You'd be crazy if you thought the only marketable NASCAR driver would be
penalized out of the playoffs.


  143.   JimmyMeansBusiness posted:
  11.01.2020 - 5:01 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

How has Jimmie Johnson been so bad today? He has 9 wins here and is a
no-show today. Seems to be mailing it in this season.


  144.   A.J. posted:
  11.01.2020 - 5:03 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

@142 "Only marketable driver?" Puh-leeze. He's a very distant #2 on that
list.


  145.   QFH posted:
  11.01.2020 - 5:04 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

Harvick now the 1st car a lap down


  146.   QFH posted:
  11.01.2020 - 5:05 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

Bubba Wallace is THE most marketable name in NASCAR. Not even Chase can
out-perform him in that aspect.


  147.   A.J. posted:
  11.01.2020 - 5:07 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

Mr. Marketable might be about to get some well-deserved payback from the
47.


  148.   52 posted:
  11.01.2020 - 5:07 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (1)

@144 Let me know when Bubba wins the ?most popular driver? award. And if
you go on to try to tell me that ?popular? is different than
?marketable? I will laugh at you.


  149.   Corey posted:
  11.01.2020 - 5:08 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

@143 Jimmie's been a no-show here for years. Best finish of 10th and
only 94 laps lead in the last 7 races.


  150.   QFH posted:
  11.01.2020 - 5:10 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

Chase Elliott doesn't look as good now in the dark


  151.   Altracing posted:
  11.01.2020 - 5:12 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

Caution for Davis, Harvick will get the free pass


  152.   QFH posted:
  11.01.2020 - 5:12 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

Caution for James Davidson


  153.   A.J. posted:
  11.01.2020 - 5:12 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

Why take FOREVER to throw the yellow there?


  154.   Ralphie posted:
  11.01.2020 - 5:13 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

Yeah, that's not like NASCAR's usual hair-trigger on these things. They
like Harvick being trapped a lap down I guess.


  155.   Zach posted:
  11.01.2020 - 5:13 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

Welp, things aren't looking so good for Chase Elliott anymore. His car
is falling off his dominant pace from earlier and now Harvick is back on
the lead lap.


  156.   Altracing posted:
  11.01.2020 - 5:16 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

Logano wins the race off pit road and will be the leader again


  157.   QFH posted:
  11.01.2020 - 5:17 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

Logano to the lead off pit road


  158.   HendrickMotorsports posted:
  11.01.2020 - 5:17 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (1)

For immediate release: We would like to announce that the entire #9 team
(except for the driver and maybe the spotter) is being fired after this
race.


  159.   Altracing posted:
  11.01.2020 - 5:18 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

Keselowski caught for speeding he will go to the rear


  160.   QFH posted:
  11.01.2020 - 5:19 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

Keselowski speeding. No way this one can be overturned


  161.   Altracing posted:
  11.01.2020 - 5:19 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

Truex back to the lead


  162.   RyanM posted:
  11.01.2020 - 5:19 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

@158 if only


  163.   QFH posted:
  11.01.2020 - 5:20 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

Elliott lost a LOT of spots out of the pits

Truex out to the lead


  164.   DI9_ForLife posted:
  11.01.2020 - 5:27 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

? For immediate release: We would like to announce that the entire #9
team (except for the driver and maybe the spotter) is being fired after
this race.?

I second this. We've seen too many costly mistakes this year


  165.   Jeezy posted:
  11.01.2020 - 5:28 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

@163 Elliot has a fast enough car it shouldnt take him long at all to go
from 9th to the lead. The final four should be Elliott, Hamlin, Kes and
Logano.


  166.   Zach posted:
  11.01.2020 - 5:29 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

Looks like Elliott's pit crew finally did him in big time. They have
been terrible all year and now they most likely just cost him a chance
to race for the championship.


  167.   Altracing posted:
  11.01.2020 - 5:30 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

Byron crashes caution


  168.   QFH posted:
  11.01.2020 - 5:31 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

Caution for William Byron spun out and hard into the wall in 3 and 4


  169.   Mile501 posted:
  11.01.2020 - 5:33 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

As they run currently (lap 440), Harvick is back in the point lead with
Hamlin and Keselowski tied 1 point behind (Keselowski would win that
tiebreaker, by the way).


  170.   Altracing posted:
  11.01.2020 - 5:35 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

Lajoie stayed out under this caution so he's the leader


  171.   Altracing posted:
  11.01.2020 - 5:38 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

Truex back to the lead


  172.   Altracing posted:
  11.01.2020 - 5:41 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

Elliott back to the lead


  173.   Altracing posted:
  11.01.2020 - 5:42 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

Truex reporting a vibration


  174.   QFH posted:
  11.01.2020 - 5:42 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

Elliott to the lead, LaJoie penalized a few laps ago after leading on
the restart for a restart box violation


  175.   Mile501 posted:
  11.01.2020 - 5:42 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

If my calculations are correct, Keselowski may now be the one in
trouble, if someone in the bottom four wins. Keselowski needs to either
beat Harvick by 6 positions or beat Hamlin by 8 positions, and he's not
doing that right now.


  176.   Altracing posted:
  11.01.2020 - 5:47 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

Truex pitting for the vibration


  177.   QFH posted:
  11.01.2020 - 5:47 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

Truex to the pits


  178.   JimmyMeansBusiness posted:
  11.01.2020 - 5:52 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (1)

Obvious Nascar fixed this race for Chase Elliott. Nascar is in need of
every fan they can get and most of the Elliott fans would've quit
watching if Nascar penalized him. Nascar playing favorites just like
they did for Earnhardt Jr in the 2001 Pepsi 400 at Daytona. They gave
him a bigger restrictor plate that race to win.


  179.   QFH posted:
  11.01.2020 - 5:53 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

If Jones passes Hamlin and Harvick passes Matty D, all else the same
it's a 3 way tie.

Change: Now Keselowski would be +1 over Hamlin and Harvick in above
scenario


  180.   Altracing posted:
  11.01.2020 - 5:55 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

Elliott wins at Martinsville


  181.   Altracing posted:
  11.01.2020 - 5:56 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

Harvick spins Kyle and it backfires Harvick is out


  182.   TeamDCRfan posted:
  11.01.2020 - 5:56 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

Harvick went for broke and it bit him in the ass


  183.   QFH posted:
  11.01.2020 - 5:57 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

Harvick DUMPS BUSCH AND LOSES A BUNCH OF SPOTS LAST LAP! That gives
Matty D the 10th spot, Harvick is ELIMINATED!


  184.   RaceFanX posted:
  11.01.2020 - 5:57 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

Harvick dumps Kyle Busch on the white flag lap out of pure desperation.
Kyle still recovered and kept the spot, Harvick ends up crashed into the
inside wall and lost several spots although it makes no difference since
he wasn't in the position he needed.


  185.   George_Costanza posted:
  11.01.2020 - 5:57 pm
   Rate this comment:      (2)      (1)

Guy wins 9 races and is the dominant car all season, and he's out. This
format sucks. NASCAR will never learn.


  186.   QFH posted:
  11.01.2020 - 5:57 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

Elliott wins.
Final 4 is Elliott, Logano, Keselowski, and Hamlin.


  187.   TeamDCRfan posted:
  11.01.2020 - 5:57 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

Lots of celebratory F bombs flying there


  188.   Vaxen posted:
  11.01.2020 - 5:57 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

I just dont know how to feel right now.

Very happy Chase Elliott won but I'm also really sad Kevin Harvick is
eliminated.


  189.   Greg posted:
  11.01.2020 - 5:58 pm
   Rate this comment:      (1)      (1)

I'm not a Harvick fan but him missing out on the Title Four should be
the END of all these playoff/Chase gimmicks. All this points, stages and
others and a guy who won 9 races isn't even among the top four in the
standings. This is rather pathetic.

NASCAR has dribbled itself out of bounds with the whole playoff format.
Just kill off those gimmicks for good.


  190.   Tarheel posted:
  11.01.2020 - 5:59 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

I think Chase has as good a chance as anyone at Phoenix. Last fall he
was racing eventual winner Hamlin for the lead when he crashed, and this
spring he was a contender for the win before his crew left a wheel
loose. I do feel bad for Harvick though.


  191.   Larry posted:
  11.01.2020 - 5:59 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

The most dominate car all year, and one flat tire takes him out of a
championship he most certainly deserved.


  192.   Onion posted:
  11.01.2020 - 5:59 pm
   Rate this comment:      (1)      (1)

Wow this series is pathetic. The guy who should have mathematically
confirmed his title already is not going to get it.

Good on Chase for a solid win though.


  193.   RyanM posted:
  11.01.2020 - 6:00 pm
   Rate this comment:      (1)      (0)

ARE. YOU. NOT. ENTERTAINED?


  194.   DI9_ForLife posted:
  11.01.2020 - 6:00 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

YES! YES! YES!! Phoenix Baby!


  195.   Edwards2020 posted:
  11.01.2020 - 6:00 pm
   Rate this comment:      (1)      (1)

This is why this point system is broken


  196.   Anonymous posted:
  11.01.2020 - 6:00 pm
   Rate this comment:      (1)      (1)

In 2 of the 3 major series, the driver who scored the most points will
not have an opportunity next week. The Playoffs are broken. Harvick
would have been champion almost 2 races ago...
Excellent performance of Chase, though. He drove an excellent race


  197.   KevinColley posted:
  11.01.2020 - 6:00 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

Harvick deserves to be out after that move. Should have three
championships but only has one because he can't keep his cool anyway.

Payback for bad-mouthing Chastain and the dirty move he pulled in 2015
to advance at Talladega.


  198.   Altracing posted:
  11.01.2020 - 6:01 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

I'm a Harvick fan but you know what he had plenty of chances to advance
with all the work he did before the playoffs and during them and all the
stuff about how he couldn't pass Logano when Logano did everything
right, he lost and now we move on to next year. And I find it a little
ridiculous that some fans who I know are Chase fans are actually upset
that Chase is now in the final round than Harvick being in.


  199.   NASCARfan05 posted:
  11.01.2020 - 6:03 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (1)

Harvick got screwed because of team orders, Gibbs should get a penalty
and Harvick should get the 4th spot over hamlin


  200.   KevinColley posted:
  11.01.2020 - 6:03 pm
   Rate this comment:      (1)      (1)

I do agree though, the system is broken.


  201.   QFH posted:
  11.01.2020 - 6:04 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

Logano is the only former playoff champion left in the final 4 since the
field expanded.


  202.   TeamDCRfan posted:
  11.01.2020 - 6:04 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

What Ward Burton said after winning the 2002 500 applies to Elliott Now:
SONOFABITCH! WE DID IT MAN!


  203.   Jimmie4life posted:
  11.01.2020 - 6:05 pm
   Rate this comment:      (1)      (0)

I know Harvick making a move on KB was a dumb desperation move, but
losing it like that? Maybe more painful than Gordon losing to Newman in
2014.


  204.   Mile501 posted:
  11.01.2020 - 6:14 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

Everyone who earned multiple Cup wins this year will be in the final
round--except the driver who earned the most wins.


  205.   TheDewCrew posted:
  11.01.2020 - 6:15 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

That was one of the most 2020 things I've ever seen


  206.   Todd posted:
  11.01.2020 - 6:15 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

In 1885 Bill Elliott won 11 races and lost the championship....in 1993
Rusty Wallace won around the same amount and lost the race. This isn't new.


  207.   RandomFacts posted:
  11.01.2020 - 6:16 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

Nice classy interview from Harvick.


  208.   1995-Subaru-WRX-Sti posted:
  11.01.2020 - 6:16 pm
   Rate this comment:      (1)      (1)

Too all the fandum complaining about the playoff format "screwing" a guy
with most wins out of a championship; 1985, 1996 and 2003 would like a
word with you.

NASCAR point system have been broken in general.


  209.   JimmyMeansBusiness posted:
  11.01.2020 - 6:16 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

Whoever wins this title, it will ALWAYS have an asterisk next to it
because this season was crazy due to Covid.


  210.   JimmyMeansBusiness posted:
  11.01.2020 - 6:16 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

All the dislikes are Chase Elliott fans.


  211.   Altracing posted:
  11.01.2020 - 6:19 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

210 Actually it's from a Harvick fan who's sick of "fans" complaining
all the time about everything NASCAR does


  212.   DB1995 posted:
  11.01.2020 - 6:19 pm
   Rate this comment:      (1)      (1)

My 2 favorites have a shot next weekend, but this 1 race winner take all
format is still stupid. It just sucks so bad


  213.   Zach posted:
  11.01.2020 - 6:23 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

I hope Elliott passes inspection.


  214.   Code posted:
  11.01.2020 - 6:23 pm
   Rate this comment:      (1)      (0)

Sorry guys,Harvick has no sympathy from me. He blew a 40 point cushion
in just 2 races. Didnt step up when it mattered and got eliminated.


  215.   danny posted:
  11.01.2020 - 6:23 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

I understand celebrating but too many f bombs, but hey Chase Elliott
deserves to join his dad Bill has a champion. Think about this last time
a driver won a title with 11 was 1985 Darrell Waltrip last time number 9
had a champion Bill Elliott 1988. And if Logano and Keselowski win it
will mark the first time since 1996 and 1997 we had 2 straight 2 time
cup series champions. I am not rooting for Logano or Hamlin though. and
if Chase wins title he would be youngest champion since Jeff Gordon in
1995 when he did it, also at 24 years old Chase is of course 24 years
old and it would be a good early birthday present since he turns 25 in
27 days.


  216.   joey2448 posted:
  11.01.2020 - 6:23 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

I'm most surprised that Harvick didn't put the bumper to the #18 going
into the corner, or in the middle. Just move him up out of the way, go
on to take the position. Instead, Harvick waited through the corner
until the exit, and by that time, it's all desperation. By hitting Kyle
on corner exit, he's in the throttle and he ended up spinning himself.
Ouch.


  217.   Chase9Fan posted:
  11.01.2020 - 6:24 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

Had to go to work and take a briefing so i missed the end life. JUST
caught up. WOW WHOOOOOOOOOO


  218.   Chase9Fan posted:
  11.01.2020 - 6:24 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

No Harvick at Phoenix, this really could be Chase year to take it.


  219.   NASCARfan05 posted:
  11.01.2020 - 6:24 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (2)

If there is a god Hamlin will fail inspection


  220.   RyanM posted:
  11.01.2020 - 6:24 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

Feel awful for Harvick having that great of a season and missing out
like that, but slightly less so after he tried to dump and run his way in.

But man... honestly, this might now be my favorite win ever and that
includes the 2014 Daytona 500. After 7 years of this playoff format my
driver has never had a shot at the finale which includes some seriously
heartbreaking losses, and for Chase to do it with his back against the
wall in a race where his pit crew screwed him over twice, so much relief.


  221.   52 posted:
  11.01.2020 - 6:24 pm
   Rate this comment:      (1)      (0)

@206

Even more impressive was automobiles we not even invented in 1885.


  222.   DI9_ForLife posted:
  11.01.2020 - 6:24 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

I love it that Chase got in but I also hate that Harvick had to miss out
because of the playoff system. The system provides more entertainment
but is systematically broken. I mean, the guy that wins 9 races on the
year can't contend for the championship, there's not excuse for that.
NASCAR needs to take a long, hard look at the format, especially after
that situation.

On the other hand, I guess Harvick got karma for the Talladega incident
in 2015.


  223.   Chase9Fan posted:
  11.01.2020 - 6:24 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

210. Not me. My likes and dislikes don't work. I still don't like the
playoff system but I will celebrate my driver being one of the top 4
with a legit chance of winning it.


  224.   Chase9Fan posted:
  11.01.2020 - 6:24 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

209. BS. Don't start that crap haha. Everyone played by the same rules.


  225.   NASCARfan05 posted:
  11.01.2020 - 6:24 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (1)

206, they got beat by points, not bad luck in 1 race


  226.   Allen posted:
  11.01.2020 - 6:24 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

209, come on now.


  227.   TylerTaylor posted:
  11.01.2020 - 6:24 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

@210 that makes no sense, all the teams had to deal with the same
circumstances, no practice, no qualifying etc, this championship will be
as legitimate as the others


  228.   Mile501 posted:
  11.01.2020 - 6:39 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

@208 "Too all the fandum complaining about the playoff format "screwing"
a guy with most wins out of a championship; 1985, 1996 and 2003 would
like a word with you."

In part, I agree. NASCAR has always needed a point system that rewards
wins and top 5s more. IndyCar and F1 have far better point systems in
that regard. On the other hand, Harvick would very likely have won this
year's championship under any legitimate point system, but now he won't.
For that reason, I believe the complaints are justified.

This is not a legitimate way to determine a champion. It is for
entertainment value only. And in that regard, it is very successful,
because look at what we're all talking about now. Would we be this
engaged with NASCAR right now if Harvick had won this year's title with
2 races to go? Probably not. Whether it's a legitimate champion or not,
people are talking about it. So in that sense, NASCAR wins either way.


  229.   Edwards2020 posted:
  11.01.2020 - 6:40 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

The great thing about this site is that they have shown non-chase points
every since the chase started. Go back and look at the drivers the won
the chase and the drivers that won the non chase standings. Anyone that
says Harvick does deserve even a chance at the championship hasn't look
at his stats, he leads in every category.


  230.   DI9_ForLife posted:
  11.01.2020 - 6:40 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

You can hate the format all you want but, to quote what @193 said earlier:

ARE. YOU. NOT. ENTERTAINED?!


  231.   GordonEvernham posted:
  11.01.2020 - 6:40 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

With this "Game 7" Playoff format that began in 2014, here is what we've
seen. 2014) Ryan Newman comes within 2 car lengths of winning title with
0 wins. 2015) Busch wins title missing 11 races 2016) JJ wins title with
average stats and his worst season at that time 2020) 9 wins, 20 top 5's
and 26 top 10's and not in the Final 4. Brian France was on one of his
BIGGEST drunks when he dreamed this format up.


  232.   DI9_ForLife posted:
  11.01.2020 - 6:41 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

I'm now praying to the inspection Gods that we pass


  233.   joey2448 posted:
  11.01.2020 - 6:41 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

To all the fans that are gonna trash Harvick for spinning Kyle Busch on
the last lap, every single driver would've pulled that same move. He was
ONE point from being in the championship finale, he had to pass the #18
to do it. I'm just surprised he waited until corner exit to hit him, I
would've booted him into the corner.


  234.   RyanM posted:
  11.01.2020 - 6:41 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

Meanwhile lost in this finish is the fact that there were clearly team
orders with Gibbs for Jones to not pass Hamlin. Given that Jones has
been made the whipping boy there and isn't going to be back next year,
it's disappointing that he didn't decide to just stick it to them.


  235.   Nascarp posted:
  11.01.2020 - 6:41 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

Nascar's inability to throw the yellow when Harvick was leading at Texas
and the whole field was complaining of a damp track didn't help either.


  236.   Chase9Fan posted:
  11.01.2020 - 6:41 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

Chase is a driver man. Yeah, they need to get better on the cookie
cutters, but the road courses and short tracks are driver tracks. He
does well on them and i love it!


  237.   Anonymous posted:
  11.01.2020 - 6:44 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (1)

No champion is legitimate if they didn't win it under the real points
standings. So, this year will be another faux champion.

Kevin Harvick is the 2020 Winston Cup champion, his 4th title (2010,
2015, 2016, and 2020).


  238.   Mouse posted:
  11.01.2020 - 6:44 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

Rusty in 1993, Bill in 1985, and Jeff in 1996 were so horribly
inconsistent year-long that they basically had 0 points when they
weren't winning. That's the points system correctly punishing
season-long inconsistency and semi-regular mediocrity.


  239.   DI9_ForLife posted:
  11.01.2020 - 6:47 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

@236, I think that the 750hp, low downforce package suits Chase better
than the high downforce clean air package. Good thing there are 19 races
with this package next year and only 13 with the high downforce package
(not counting Daytona and Talladega)


  240.   Spen posted:
  11.01.2020 - 6:54 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

I can agree to an extent on '85 and '93, but Gordon had exactly the same
top five and top ten total as Terry. Terry won because his seven bad
races weren't *as* bad as Gordon's. Marginally better bad runs shouldn't
erase an eight win advantage, and the five point win bonus added in 2004
would have been enough to change the outcome.


  241.   QFH posted:
  11.01.2020 - 6:56 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

20 lead changes is the most in 5 years at Martinsville


  242.   TheDewCrew posted:
  11.01.2020 - 6:57 pm
   Rate this comment:      (1)      (0)

For everyone b****ing about Elliott's penalty being rescinded, it's in
the rulebook.

"Crew member's feet and/or pit equipment must not touch the pit road
surface before the vehicle is one pit box away from its assigned pit box
or the equivalent of a marked distance. Should a crew member's feet
prematurely touch the pit road surface prior to servicing the vehicle,
said crew member(s) can re-establish their position back to or behind
service wall prior to servicing the vehicle to avoid a penalty."


  243.   GGDC posted:
  11.01.2020 - 6:58 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

@237

Yeah and no post is legit if it is posted by "Anonymous"


  244.   Zach posted:
  11.01.2020 - 7:01 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

So what are all the Chase Elliott haters going to come up with next? Are
they going to say Chase doesn't deserve to be in the final 4 even though
he just went out and dominated Martinsville? Are they going to blame him
for ruining Harvick's championship season even though he was just doing
his job to the best of his ability? It's not Chase Elliott's fault the
system is the way it is and Harvick had a bad round of 8.


  245.   Racinglife97 posted:
  11.01.2020 - 7:07 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

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  246.   Tarheel posted:
  11.01.2020 - 7:10 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

Chase pulled the field by 6.5 seconds in 44 laps, that's a whipping.
After all the crap that's knocked him out of contention late in races
this year I think I held my breath for most of those laps. He really
could be right up there with Hamlin and Harvick in wins.


  247.   Chase9Fan posted:
  11.01.2020 - 7:11 pm
   Rate this comment:      (1)      (0)

Harvick fans are upset. Rightfully so. Don't hate the players though,
hate the game. I have always been against this playoff and Chase today
doesn't change that for me. It was to stop drivers from having the title
won with 3 or 4 races to go, but you know drivers and teams will adjust
if they have to. I also miss the days of cars being taped together to go
back out for points. I get the safety hazard of it, but I still miss it.


  248.   DI9_ForLife posted:
  11.01.2020 - 7:11 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

Also, according to loop data, this race had the most green flag passes
at Martinsville since the 2015 fall race, which was also a fantastic
race. Biased or not, this race was still a 10/10.


  249.   Chase9Fan posted:
  11.01.2020 - 7:11 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

I think this could be the first year a champion is crowned that actually
doesn't win the final race. Just glad Harvick isn't among the 4, he's
awfully tough in the desert.


  250.   ThatGuy posted:
  11.01.2020 - 7:21 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

Just gotta say this...but if you replace Chase Elliott with Kyle Busch
everybody would be pissed and there'd be a lot more hate towards the
winning driver than there is.

If for some reason you don't believe me, look at the hate & saltiness of
people from wednesday night when Kyle won his first race of 2020. You'd
think he stole the championship like someone is going to next sunday


  251.   Chase9Fan posted:
  11.01.2020 - 7:22 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

246. I thought the caution would come out with 2-5 to go. I truly did.
You can't pit at that point, but you know most behind him would have.


  252.   RyanM posted:
  11.01.2020 - 7:28 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

@244 They'll whine about NASCAR rescinding his penalty (they already
have been, the replies on NASCAR's tweet about it were filled with
"durrrr golden boy") even though it was the correct call, and even
though they've had prime opportunities to gift-wrap him wins (Talladega)
or let him back in the race (Texas) and didn't do so. But Chase haters
don't use logic anyway, which makes sense because the main reason they
hate him is because they're the types who believe in any baseless
conspiracy theory and he's the easiest, laziest driver to claim NASCAR
wants to help.


  253.   Zach posted:
  11.01.2020 - 7:28 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

@250 Yeah, so what's your point? A lot more people are fans of Chase
Elliott than they are of Kyle Busch. So of course there are a lot more
people upset when Kyle Busch wins than when Chase Elliott wins. But
Chase has his fair share of haters as well who I'm sure are pissed off
right now.


  254.   JSPorts posted:
  11.01.2020 - 7:29 pm
   Rate this comment:      (1)      (0)

This playoff system is such a joke.


  255.   Mile501 posted:
  11.01.2020 - 7:30 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

@249 - It's been nearly 5 years since Harvick last dominated a race at
Phoenix. People keep thinking that he's amazing there, but he hasn't
been in quite some time. He's still fairly strong, but he's not amazing
like he was back in 2014-spring 2016.


  256.   Anon posted:
  11.01.2020 - 7:35 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

To this day people are still pissed at Newman for dumping Larson to
advance in a stage. I bet Harvick is forgiven immediately, which is
hypocritical. I hope everyone remembers this the next time drivers like
Logano or Kyle cross the line between aggressive and dirty, and maybe
complain a little less.

Also, could you imagine the collective meltdown if Truex had won this,
and both Harvick and Chase missed the finale?


  257.   QFH posted:
  11.01.2020 - 7:37 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

If Harvick had passed KFB then we still would have had people upset...
because then the 3 way tie would have knocked Hamlin out.


  258.   Ben posted:
  11.01.2020 - 7:47 pm
   Rate this comment:      (1)      (0)

Chase haters have been devoid of logic since their existence. They don't
like the fact Chase is more popular than their guy. We dealt with his as
Bill Elliott fans. Same deal. Bill killed them in the MPD award and
Earnhardt Sr.then Junior fans cried about it until Bill eventually
removed his name in 2003.


  259.   Ben posted:
  11.01.2020 - 8:08 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (1)

Inconsistency is what killed Harvick plus the win and you are in. Exact
same thing. At some point you all are going to have to make up your
minds on what exactly you want and stick with it. Nascar cannot change
the rules just because something you wanted to happen did not happen.


  260.   Canadianfan posted:
  11.01.2020 - 8:08 pm
   Rate this comment:      (1)      (0)

From Chris Knight:

Post-race inspection in the #NASCAR Cup Series garage is complete. All
clear. No issues in teardown.
 
The No. 18 had one lug nut not safe and secure.


  261.   JG24 posted:
  11.01.2020 - 8:09 pm
   Rate this comment:      (1)      (0)

God it's fascinating to see how NASCAR fans talk to and about each
other. Just total blind hatred and rage.


  262.   JSPorts posted:
  11.01.2020 - 8:18 pm
   Rate this comment:      (1)      (0)

The drivers 2nd-5th in full-season points made the championship 4. The
problem? The guy in 1st would've likely locked up the championship at
Texas last week under a full-season championship format, and he leads in
every statistical category. This will be a hollow championship for
whoever wins it. There'll be no pretending that any of those 4 was the
"best driver of 2020."


  263.   Ultimate_Warrior_#18 posted:
  11.01.2020 - 8:23 pm
   Rate this comment:      (1)      (0)

Didn't watch the race but definitely heard about the controversy. I know
this is what nascar wants any press is good press but Kevin Harvick and
Austin Hill have been completely screwed by this bogus stick n ball format.


  264.   Rob posted:
  11.01.2020 - 8:23 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

Amazing how this season is a polar opposite of the Harvick 2014
championship season. That year saw Harvick have horrible luck during the
season with a very fast car but pull out the title with wins late.


  265.   Chase9Fan posted:
  11.01.2020 - 8:23 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

261. This ain't nothing like the old days. If the net was around in the
70-90s.....

The problem today is old school fans vs the new fan. It was the newer
fans that came in thinking NASCAR was boring. Complaining about a
champion being crowned 3 races from finish. Wanted more exciting in race
things, so they came up with the chase, then the playoff to please those
fans. Also the stages to have drivers actually battle for position all
race instead of just riding around until the end. They did that for the
new fan and they still complain. I also think NASCAR added gimmicks
because they know the cars are crap on some of these tracks, have to
make more interesting somehow, right?

I have always been against gimmicky racing. Never liked it and never
will. I think points all season should be added at the end and if you
scored the most, you win. That simple. The points as it is now, you
could have a 5th, 6th or 7th place driver earn more points than the
winner of the race. That is TERRIBLE IMO. If they are going to keep
these gimmicks, at least make the winner point wise fool proof that no
way any other place can get more points.

I go along with it, though i say i don't like it. So this is proof that
"I am not just saying I like it now since it benefited Chase this year".
No. I still hate it, but I will celebrate my driver played the game
right and now has a chance at a title. Don't hate the players, just the
game.


  266.   Anonymous posted:
  11.01.2020 - 8:38 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

Fan is short for "FANATIC" - Hope this helps you all understand.


  267.   Chase9Fan posted:
  11.01.2020 - 8:47 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

10th career win for Chase ties Clint Bowyer, Donnie Allison, and
Sterling Marlin.


  268.   ThatGuy posted:
  11.01.2020 - 8:49 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

@253 my point is, they're hypocrites. I don't hate Chase for succeeding,
I hate the system for allowing the clear cut champion to not have a
chance to even race for the championship. I don't like Harvick, I
honestly would've liked last year to be his final season (or this year),
but for him to not even be in the 4 is unfortunate.


  269.   Sector posted:
  11.01.2020 - 9:06 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

Honestly, since his win at Bristol, Harvick hasn't really been at
championship standards. He's been utterly average since.


  270.   Chase9Fan posted:
  11.01.2020 - 9:06 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

Since NASCAR is keen on changing rules when they see fit, maybe they
will put the guy with the most wins in the final 4 automatically. Naw,
that would be stupid, but with NASCAR you never know.


  271.   Edwards2020 posted:
  11.01.2020 - 9:06 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

It's crazy to think Harvick would have won the championship already if
it weren't for the playoff format. I would rather see a guy win the
championship by 1,000 points than crown a guy that hasn't had the
consistency all season. Look back on the championships of the past and
see that it's the consistency of a driver that wins championships.
Harvick's stats are incredible. He leads in every category except
average start, he's completed all but a handful of laps. It's insane
that he isn't the champion this year.


  272.   ScottB posted:
  11.01.2020 - 9:25 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

No. I. Am. Not. Entertained.


  273.   ScottB posted:
  11.01.2020 - 9:26 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

And, no, I will not be watching next week. No reason to.


  274.   Anonymous posted:
  11.01.2020 - 9:26 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

Whoever wins the championship should get a big fat asterisk next to
their name. This system is broken and it is time to get rid of it. But
NASCAR probably won't, since they care more about gimmicks than the
actual racing.


  275.   RandomFacts posted:
  11.01.2020 - 9:26 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

As much as it sucks Harvick wont be able to go for the championship
after his amazing season, at least the championship wont go to someone
who missed a third of the season like the 2015 joke of a champion.

So this is not gonna be the most hollow championship ever, plus the 4 in
the finals have all had a pretty successful year with multiple wins,
saying any of them dont deserve this championship is just being foolish
and salty.


  276.   KentuckyOffroadRider posted:
  11.01.2020 - 9:26 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

What this system is doing is ruining the credibility of the sport. This
is dumb, Harvick is 110 points ahead of Hamlin which is over 2 races
ahead. Then he is well over 3 races ahead of Brad K and doesn't even get
to go race for a championship. I am not a Harvick fan but this is
getting to be too ridiculous


  277.   Anon posted:
  11.01.2020 - 9:39 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

Is the credibility of football ruined when the #1 seed loses before the
superbowl? Does everyone have to complain about everything no matter the
result?


  278.   Edwards2020 posted:
  11.01.2020 - 9:52 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

&277, How many times has the number one seed won? How many times has the
chase champion been the non-chase champion. This isn't football. This
isn't baseball. This is NASCAR. This playoff system doesn't reward the
best driver with a championship. Matt Craftons championship proved that
for sure last year. A guy with no wins, inconsistency, and the 40 laps
lead. That's like a 5-11 team winning the super bowl


  279.   Sector posted:
  11.01.2020 - 9:52 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

#196 Brett Moffitt and Chase Briscoe are in the Final Four in Trucks and
Xfinity, respectfully. Only Harvick who is the current driver with the
most points in Cup failed to make the Final Four.


  280.   Anon posted:
  11.01.2020 - 10:01 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

I predict Keselowski wins the championship. He's bringing his best,
multi race winning car, and will be tough to beat. Logano won at Phoenix
in the spring, so I really expect a Penske shootout for the title, with
Denny and Chase playing catch up most of the day. I'll guess Brad wins,
Joey gets 2nd, Chase gets 5th, and Denny lower.


  281.   Anon posted:
  11.01.2020 - 10:01 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

Also, this format is not going anywhere, and you all know what it is
going into the season. Why torture yourselves by following or watching
something you obviously hate? NASCAR wants to be like stick-and-ball
sports. Don't like that, watch and follow motorsports series with a
different format and philosophy. I enjoyed it today, and all season, and
look forward to next week despite not even having a dog in the fight
this year.


  282.   NewJack posted:
  11.01.2020 - 10:07 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

To those who questioned harvick hitting busch on corner exit instead of
corner entry, I think it was wiser for corner exit. Doing so could cause
Kyle's momentum to cross the finish line after harvick. If Kevin does it
on corner entry, Kyle probably would have slowed and intentionally let
Hamlin by to give him the point back. Could you imagine the uproar if
nascar threw the caution in that scenario if it threw it before Hamlin
got around busch?


  283.   TeamDCRfan posted:
  11.01.2020 - 10:16 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

Looking back at the Lajoie restart, that was a BS penalty on him. He was
inside the zone when he went


  284.   Ryan posted:
  11.01.2020 - 10:29 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

The man that won the most races AND had over a two race point lead going
into today's race won't be the champion. And people want to know why
Nascar's ratings have gone down the last decade. The way they determine
a champion is a joke. It's been like this since 2015 and has continued
to go into a downward spiral. Really in a way it's good for them if they
fall flat on their face (they may have already). Unfortunately, the TV
crew are apologists more so than anything else.

Erik Jones definitely had a car capable of passing Hamlin at the end. He
kept getting beside him and had plenty of drive off to get by him. It's
not the first time JGR has raced dirty. See Richmond #1 in 2008. Hamlin
fell off so much that the 41 was even catching them at the end while
Jones was falling off purposely to stay behind Hamlin. Jones
manipulating the standings is no different than what Michael Waltrip
Racing did in 2013. Of course I doubt SHR has the pull HMS does where
Gordon was allowed in the CHASE.

Whoever said that when Harvick got behind Busch going into turn 3 is
when he should have done a bump and run is right. It was too late to be
doing it out of turn 4.

Harvick admitted to what he did and apologized to Busch which was classy
and insinuated how it's a gimmick now how a champion is determined where
it wasn't like when Petty and Earnhardt won theirs. Busch would have
done the same thing. People continue to say stuff about Harvick
manipulating the race at Talladega in 2015, but he was cleared of any
wrong doing in that race and even said it was incidental and was just
trying to get out of the way.





  285.   Ryan posted:
  11.01.2020 - 10:29 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

In my eyes and a lot of traditionalists when Harvick goes into the Hall
of Fame he will be at least a four time points champion and that's what
means most to me.


  286.   TennesseeMountainMan posted:
  11.01.2020 - 10:29 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

All NASCAR wants to be is penalties, penalties and more stupid penalties
that are meaningless like LaJoie's. This is racing, not a stick and ball
sport. Unfortunately, the ones in control aren't intelligent enough to
realize this and the sport would be better if they'd just let ?em race.
Little do they know they have run off the hardcore fans by constantly
doing this


  287.   Chase9Fan posted:
  11.01.2020 - 10:42 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

285. Well, while i agree with you that I want the old system back, or at
least a system that isn't so gimmicky, I will disagree with you. He will
be a 1 time champion, maybe 2 time if he gets it, but if he retires
today, he is a 1 time champion. Period. You can't make up your own rules
haha. Regular season championship is a bonus points thing only.


  288.   Chase9Fan posted:
  11.01.2020 - 11:19 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

I don't think there are too many people who disagree that this playoff
thing is a bit weird and doesn't always reward the best driver. But I
doubt NASCAR ever goes back to a points season champion (Regular season
championship is a joke in NASCAR). Lots of tweaks I would like to see
happen. One would be to make sure race winner always gets more points
than any other finisher, regardless of stage points.. which leads me to
my next tweak. Get rid of stages. They do nothing but stop the flow of a
race and take away a lot of potential strategies. I would get rid of the
5 minute damage rule as well. If you can fix your car and have it up to
speed, go back out for points. If you are going to have a playoff, make
it race winners only. Yes, i know you get a freak winner once in a
while, but those guys sneaking in at 16th in points stand zero
chance,it's just to much gimmick.


  289.   Anon posted:
  11.01.2020 - 11:19 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

In every other sport in the world, the big upset is celebrated. NCAA
tourney? Everyone wants to see the 1 seeds go down. Everyone enjoys the
wild card team making a run to the superbowl. Marshawn Lynch rin anyone?
That team had a losing record.

Everyone enjoys the 8 seed beating the 1 in a series in the NBA.
Literally every sport in the world, postseason upsets happen and are
celebrated. In NASCAR, forget it, complaints to no end.

The upset is celebrated by every other sport and sports fans alike. It
seems to me that NASCAR fans don't consider it a sport I guess.

Also if we are going to just make up championships based on any format
we please, give Jeff Gordon a couple more, Kurt Busch 1 more, and Dale
Junior as well. It's so funny to me that for some drivers it's ok to
crown them additional championships they didn't win, but it's not ok for
others. The hypocrisy of the last several hours in the nascar world is
hysterical.


  290.   Chase9Fan posted:
  11.01.2020 - 11:20 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

Unpopular opinion among Chase fans, but if Chase can't win the title, i
hope Denny does. I don't have the venom towards him some Chase fans do.
As bad as Martinsville 2017 sucked, it was just the way this game is
played. Chase and Denny seem to get along now, so that is good enough
for me. My 3rd choice would be Brad. I can't stand Joey, period.


  291.   EPIC posted:
  11.01.2020 - 11:58 pm
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This system was created to stop the 48 team. After 7 seasons we can
clearly see how it has simply failed at its intended purpose. First off
it was shortsighted as Jimmie would never have won his 7th title under
any other system. It stops dynasties and makes every race meaningful but
ultimately its fatally flawed. It is a system of survival as much as
it's a system of victory. Any mediocre driver who avoids problems and/or
gets lucky can find themselves in position to be champion, while in any
other format they'd have no chance. And as we saw today, it can screw
the best driver out of a deserving title. Now that Jimmie will be gone
and that the best season of the decade will be worth nothing, maybe it's
time to re-evaluate the format and work to create one that is new and
better than anything NASCARs ever seen before.


  292.   NASCARfan05 posted:
  11.01.2020 - 11:58 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

Honestly, I liked Jones before this race, but I cant like him now, how
do you not try to get every position you can? To hell with team orders,
you got one more race with them because they did you dirty


  293.   MBenoit posted:
  11.01.2020 - 11:58 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

It was a good race, overall. Nobody flat out dominated. Plenty of twists
and turns.

I agree with Joey and several others on Harvick; I have no problem with
what he did to Busch. Pretty much the same move Newman pulled on Larson
in 2014. The reason I don't think it's a big deal is because the drivers
are put in that box, and if you're moving or dumping a non-Chase driver,
you have everything to gain and they have little to lose, from a points
perspective. Now, if you wreck your competition for the final spot,
that's another matter.

With this format, NASCAR does make themselves like any other sport.
Number one seeds have no guarantee to win a title, even if they're the
best team overall. Like it or not, it's what we have right now to award
championships. Harvick still had basically his best year, and cemented
in my mind that he's got about the best team in Cup.

I don't think there's any doubt Jones gave Hamlin that spot to get him
in. He was all over him and then just never completed a pass.


  294.   Sector posted:
  11.02.2020 - 12:26 am
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

With the conclusion of this race...

Kevin Harvick has scored the most Top 5's, Top 10's, wins and most laps
led of the 2020 season. Having the sole possession of the most wins at 9
at this point is the first time of his career. The only other time was
in 2018 in which he has won the most races, but was tied with Kyle Busch
at 8.

Chase Elliott has now led over 1,000 laps in a single season in 2020 for
the first time in his career. He ended up with 1,094 laps led after this
race, second highest to Kevin Harvick who has led 1,531. Phoenix is only
312 laps, give or take extras for overtime. Elliott's 236 laps led is
the highest in a race for the 2020 season unless Phoenix ends up having
a dominant run by someone.

With his 11th place finish, Denny Hamlin has finished most of the 2020
Playoffs outside the Top 10. 6 of his 9 finishes resulted in 13th, 12th,
21st, 15th, 15th and now 11th.


  295.   Sector posted:
  11.02.2020 - 12:26 am
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

I don't know about everyone else, but I have confirm that Harvick's 2020
is definitely very similar to that of Jeff Gordon's 2007 season. Amazing
regular season, just wasn't that hot during the Playoffs despite having
a couple of wins in the first half.


  296.   Mannoroth posted:
  11.02.2020 - 12:26 am
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

Oh no, Kevin Harvick got eliminated! That's a big tragedy...

I told you, Ryan, that nothing is impossible and he can easily get
eliminated even with all those playoff points and guess what - it
happened and doesn't have a chance to tie Kyle Busch with 2 titles. Bad
luck, maybe next time.


  297.   Sector posted:
  11.02.2020 - 12:26 am
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

#285/287 At least Harvick has a championship. Better than to be without
one. Look at Bobby Allison.


  298.   JSPorts posted:
  11.02.2020 - 12:26 am
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

The difference is, a team can't be taken out of the NFC championship
game by a team that went 2-14. Playoffs don't work in NASCAR because
race results can be much more random than other sports. If a team is
winning a baseball game 15-0 in the 8th inning & their best player gets
hurt, they will almost certainly still win the game. If a driver has led
490/500 laps, they could get taken out by a back marker & finish 30th.
There's a reason why all other forms of motorsport use a season-long
championship and are much more respected around the world these days.
This championship format is a total farce.


  299.   Z posted:
  11.02.2020 - 12:26 am
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

Since the playoffs keep being brought up, what makes NASCAR's different
is the top drivers face each other *every week. In NBA, MLB, etc. the
argument is the different conferences necesitate a playoff structure,
since they don't get a chance to play one another every week, or often
at all over the course of a year. & ProCup, who NASCAR basically
modified the idea from, existed under that system so it could at least
be argued it made more sense then. NASCAR's system is unnecessary, IMO,
but it *has succeeded in creating drama - for better or worse.


  300.   JSPorts posted:
  11.02.2020 - 12:26 am
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

I just feel for Kevin Harvick. He should probably have about 4
championships by now, but because of the ridiculousness of the
Chase/playoff formats, he's got 1. At his age, who knows if he'll even
get another shot at a title.


  301.   Sector posted:
  11.02.2020 - 7:08 am
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

Anyone have any comments about what Kevin Harvick and Denny Hamlin said
about the Playoffs? Even Hamlin is disappointed to not be able to race
against Kevin Harvick for the championship.


  302.   Ryan posted:
  11.02.2020 - 7:08 am
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

@296

"Oh no, Kevin Harvick got eliminated! That's a big tragedy...

I told you, Ryan, that nothing is impossible and he can easily get
eliminated even with all those playoff points and guess what - it
happened and doesn't have a chance to tie Kyle Busch with 2 titles. Bad
luck, maybe next time."

You talk a lot now when you haven't had much to talk about all year
except for the lame excuse that Covid-19 has ruined your boy's chances
of having a good year.

And, I believe most NASCAR fans knew it was a possibility with the rules
that NASCAR has in place that there's always a chance that the top
driver wouldn't make the Championship 4 without you having to mention it.

As I mentioned earlier in @285 and @287, Harvick clinched his fourth
championship after Texas. I've already got me a shirt made that says so
in Jimmy John's colors. Four Time NASCAR Cup Champion. 2010, 2015, 2016,
2020

@293

"I don't think there's any doubt Jones gave Hamlin that spot to get him
in. He was all over him and then just never completed a pass."

That kind of manipulation happened in 2013 and with it happening today
by the 20 team it's obvious that this system is broke. It's why the
sport can't be taken serious anymore.


  303.   Chase9Fan posted:
  11.02.2020 - 7:09 am
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

300. At his age? He's running the best he ever has. They will contend
again next season.


  304.   PucciMan posted:
  11.02.2020 - 7:09 am
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

Unpopular opinion I'm glad Harvick didn't make the Championship 4. That
goes to show just because you dominate the regular season in sports
doesn't mean you'll win it all. This makes me love sports even more.
Anything is unpredictable.


  305.   RandomFacts posted:
  11.02.2020 - 7:09 am
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

@296

He still has more wins than Kyle, and is more classy than Kyle, and is
not hated as much as Kyle.

And he is gonna beat Kyle in points this year, deal with all that while
you continue to show why you are the most hated around here.


  306.   zuel660 posted:
  11.02.2020 - 8:11 am
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

Next weekend's race winner at Phoenix will be either Elliott, Logano,
Hamlin, Keselowski, or Jimmie Johnson. I will be shocked if anyone else
wound up in victory lane, based on the results of the final race of the
last several years.


  307.   Allen posted:
  11.02.2020 - 8:38 am
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

306, no way JJ wins.


  308.   Sector posted:
  11.02.2020 - 8:38 am
   Rate this comment:      (1)      (0)

Jimmie Johnson? LOL He has been riding on a streak of 3 consecutive
finishes in the 30's. Not happening.

I can see Kevin Harvick pulling a spoiler and winning the race for #10
however.


  309.   zuel660 posted:
  11.02.2020 - 8:57 am
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

@307 & @308 I know JJ has been looking bad this year, I just thought I'd
include him for a Nascar "storybook" ending, & if it would happen,
Nascar conspiracy theorists would go insane...lol


  310.   Corey posted:
  11.02.2020 - 9:33 am
   Rate this comment:      (1)      (0)

@306 I can see one of Ky. Busch, Blaney or Harvick spoiling the party.


  311.   Nascarp posted:
  11.02.2020 - 9:34 am
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This is possibly the best chance of a non Championship 4 driver winning
the final race that we've had since the format started. Harvick, Truex,
KFB, Blaney are more than capable.


  312.   DB1995 posted:
  11.02.2020 - 10:23 am
   Rate this comment:      (2)      (0)

@301, over the years several drivers have implied this format sucks
right on tv. Almost like it's a common feeling that this is an
illegitimate way to crown a champion. You could win the first 35 races
and have a flat at Phoenix and it was for nothing


  313.   Tarheel posted:
  11.02.2020 - 11:21 am
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

Other than going back to season long points determining the champion,
the only fix I can see is the driver with the most wins getting an
automatic berth in the final four. What I am certain of is that this
controversy will drive Nascar to come up with another gimmick.
The whole playoff idea came about because they were trying to be more
like other sports. Auto racing simply isn't other sports and it never
will be.


  314.   Corey posted:
  11.02.2020 - 11:30 am
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

Final four may not be fully set. NASCAR will look into the radio
communication of the 20 to determine whether they actually told Jones
not to pass the 11.


  315.   Mannoroth posted:
  11.02.2020 - 11:32 am
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

302. Sure. You forgot to remind me that in your perfect world without
the Chase/playoffs, Jeff Gordon has 7 titles and Carl Edwards has 2.
That means Jimmie Johnson is only a 3-time champ. But those are only
what-ifs. Harvick has only 1 title and it will be that way even after
2020 season.

Plus, it would be nice that you acted nice and finally admitted that you
were wrong as you were so sure the entire Round of 8 that Harvick will
easily advance. I told you that nothing is impossible and your words
weren't true in the end. But I guess I want too much from you...

305. So far... Remember that he's 10 years younger, so he can easily
surpass him again like in 2015. And what the hell those two things have
to do with achievements? Harvick isn't a good boy and yesterday, you
could see why. He acts like your best friend, but he easily stabs you in
the back, when things don't go his way and is desperate that he will get
eliminated. Kyle Busch handled it like a man twice already and didn't
have that need to do something about it, because it's disgusting to ruin
someone's race just because you want to fight for the championship.
Things didn't go your way = bad luck. So hard to understand, right
Harvick? Plus, if it was Kyle in Harvick's shoes, you all would be
hating him for that silly move, because all drivers except him can. Only
him can't.


  316.   Mile501 posted:
  11.02.2020 - 11:32 am
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

NASCAR's Scott Miller called into SiriusXM NASCAR Monday morning and
said they sanctioning body will take a look at a couple events near the
end of Sunday's race at Martinsville Speedway.

#4-Kevin Harvick admitted to spinning #18-Kyle Busch on the final lap of
the race in hopes of gaining an additional finishing spot. He ended up
wrecking himself and finishing 17th.

The other issue was allegations that #20-Erik Jones was told to not pass
#11-Hamlin under any circumstances to prevent Hamlin from losing an
additional positions. Hamlin finished 11th, one point ahead of
#2-Keselowski.

(From Jayski)


  317.   RyanM posted:
  11.02.2020 - 11:32 am
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

It's a sham that Harvick isn't competing for a championship, but at the
same time, there's absolutely something to be said for the idea that
NASCAR is the only sport where fans give a shit about the best driver or
team over the season "deserving" to win, in literally every other sport
we celebrate underdog playoff runs and the heavy favorite going down.
Sorry, everyone plays by the same rules.


  318.   Jim4Bill posted:
  11.02.2020 - 11:33 am
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

Harvick fans should be mad at the 4 team for failing to perform at Texas
and Martinsville. NASCAR gets some blame for not yellow flagging the
race earlier for rain - but everyone was racing in the same conditions.
Harvick simply needed to be faster at Martinsville. A tire problem could
have taken any of drivers out - a loose wheel ended MTJ's bid for the
Final 4 (and he felt he could have held off Chase if the wheel was tight).

As far as the playoff format "screwing" Harvick - please. They all race
with the same rules - and he got a huge pile of points each round and
didn't perform. There was a story last week that NASCAR in 2021 that the
regular season champ would get an automatic bid to the final race....not
sure if that means only 3 spots are available OR if they add the regular
season champ as a wildcard if he misses the Final 4.

Maybe his biggest issue was the high downforce/low horsepower package at
Kansas - which does not allow any passing. Harvick winning Kansas ends
the discussion about the fairness of the playoffs.

I have never liked the one race for the championship format. To me - it
would make more sense to have it be a series of 3 races. So if you want
10 playoff races - do 2 races Rd of 16, 2 races Rd of 12, 3 races Rd of
8, 3 races to settle the Final 4 (with automatic birth for regular
season champ). That gives you 3 eliminations races like we have now plus
3 races of Final 4 fist fighting.


  319.   CFM posted:
  11.02.2020 - 11:37 am
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@316 Net effect: nothing changes at all as far as the makeup of the final 4.

If NASCAR chooses to penalize JGR [Jones] for their obvious team orders,
they will simply offset that by penalizing Harvick for spinning the 18.
Either way Harvick is still out of the playoffs and Hamlin is still in,
only a snowball's chance in hell that is altered and even that is
overestimating the likelihood.


  320.   A.J. posted:
  11.02.2020 - 11:41 am
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

I was hoping Jones would give a big "F.U." to Gibbs on his way out the
door and pass Hamlin, which he clearly could have done.

But he'd never make it out of the track alive if he pulled a stunt like
that. So Jones made it look, for a little while, as if he was trying
ever so hard to make the pass but simply couldn't. I suspect that act
didn't fool many people, NASCAR included, and there may have been some
radio chatter (hardly necessary) to back up what we all saw.


  321.   DI9_ForLife posted:
  11.02.2020 - 11:41 am
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I thought I saw someone on Twitter quote the radio communication ?under
no circumstances are you to pass the 11? to Jones. Of course, Twitter is
very unreliable, but nearly everyone is saying something along the lines
of that was said on the radio.

I'll leave my opinion here: I hate team orders.


  322.   Corey posted:
  11.02.2020 - 11:42 am
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

@319 That depends on how much the penalize them for.

Pre-reset the points were

Hamlin- 4166
Harvick- 4157
Bowman-4137

Take away enough points and Bowman is now in the final 4.


  323.   JimDavis posted:
  11.02.2020 - 11:45 am
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

"@301, over the years several drivers have implied this format sucks
right on tv."

I think that's more of a case of fans putting their own words in the
mouths of those drivers.

"You could win the first 35 races and have a flat at Phoenix and it was
for nothing"

You could say the same about the pre-chase Latford system as well.

Just to be clear, I'm not a huge fan of the chase in any of its
incarnations, and I despise stage racing, but there is nothing
illegitimate about it. We've all watched races where one driver
completely dominates, building up a big lead with only a few laps
remaining. A caution is thrown. He's a sitting duck. If he comes for
tires, everyone else stays out. If he stays out, everyone comes for
tires. He loses a race because of something completely out of his
control. Do we complain that the system is broken and demand changes? Do
we call the victory illegitimate?


  324.   David posted:
  11.02.2020 - 11:48 am
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

Then we get to debate which is "worse": a driver doing whatever he can
to gain a position (Harvick) by wrecking another driver, with Ryan
Newman having set a precedent a few years back in the exact same
situation, or a driver (Jones) doing whatever he can to help a teammate
not lose a position and following team orders in the process.

Do we follow the Itchy Arm precedent here and put Harvick back in and
make it a 5-man race? Kick Hamlin out of the top-4 or penalize him in
any way at Phoenix? Not a chance. Team orders or not, it could be argued
that Hamlin _himself_ did nothing wrong yesterday. Unlike that
yellow-line BS he was allowed to get away with at Talladega, but that's
water under the bridge now.


  325.   Foote posted:
  11.02.2020 - 11:48 am
   Rate this comment:      (1)      (0)

Erik should have responded with, "what are you gonna do if I pass him,
fire me?" Denny has always liked Erik and I hope he remembers this when
23XI expands to two cars and needs another driver.


  326.   Mile501 posted:
  11.02.2020 - 11:51 am
   Rate this comment:      (1)      (0)

@312 "You could win the first 35 races and have a flat at Phoenix and it
was for nothing"

@323 "You could say the same about the pre-chase Latford system as well."

No...you couldn't say that about the Latford system because such a
scenario would be mathematically impossible. It might not reward a
driver who won a lot and was very inconsistent, but it would always
reward a driver who had a truly dominant season.


  327.   Foote posted:
  11.02.2020 - 11:56 am
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

Thoroughly enjoyed Harvick dumping Kyle Busch, I don't know why but it
just made me laugh. Harvick should have done a better job of it though
and not spun himself out and he'd be racing for the title next weekend.


  328.   1995-Subaru-WRX-Sti posted:
  11.02.2020 - 12:14 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (1)

"No...you couldn't say that about the Latford system because such a
scenario would be mathematically impossible. It might not reward a
driver who won a lot and was very inconsistent, but it would always
reward a driver who had a truly dominant season."

You would call the 2003 championship under the Latford system
"dominate"? And it didn't always.


  329.   Mile501 posted:
  11.02.2020 - 12:16 pm
   Rate this comment:      (1)      (0)

@328 - No, that's not what I meant. I meant that if a driver had a truly
dominant season, way above everyone else (not every season had a driver
like that), that driver would almost certainly win the championship.
Now, that's not the case at all.


  330.   JSPorts posted:
  11.02.2020 - 12:32 pm
   Rate this comment:      (1)      (0)

Exactly. Harvick would've won the title this year under pretty much
every points system for any motorsport, even pre-playoff NASCAR systems.
The fact that he doesn't even have a shot at it is simply ridiculous.


  331.   TeamDCRfan posted:
  11.02.2020 - 12:45 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

Harvicks hitting Busch wasn't any different than when Ryan Newman body
slammed Kyle Larson into the wall in 2014, so I really don't see the
need to evaluate that one, especially since it wound up being an act in
futility. As far as Jones and Hamlin, thats got some MWR 2013 written on
it.


  332.   Mile501 posted:
  11.02.2020 - 12:48 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

I have posted a blog on alternative championship formats. I would love
to get some of your comments on these ideas and any other ideas you may
have that are entertaining yet fair.

https://www.racing-reference.info/showblog?id=3698


  333.   AndersonWhitt posted:
  11.02.2020 - 12:54 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

I predict NASCAR either puts Harvick in the Final 4 (Final 5) alongside
Hamlin (The most likely outcome if there were team orders), penalizes
Gibbs by taking Hamlin out and putting Harvick in, or if they can't find
any evidence that Jones did something wrong, leave it like it is.

I don't see any precedent for penalizing Harvick for dumping Kyle as a
last-ditch effort to make the Final 4, except for maybe the penalties to
Kenseth, but that was when Kenseth was eliminated from the race already
and was just retaliating, plus Kenseth drove someone into the wall while
Harvick just spun someone out.


  334.   JimDavis posted:
  11.02.2020 - 12:58 pm
   Rate this comment:      (1)      (0)

"No...you couldn't say that about the Latford system because such a
scenario would be mathematically impossible."

No, you're mistaken. Consider a situation where one driver won the first
35 races and another driver came in second and led the most laps in the
first 35 races. They would enter the last race tied in points. Not a
likely scenario to be sure but possible.


  335.   Mile501 posted:
  11.02.2020 - 1:08 pm
   Rate this comment:      (1)      (0)

@334 - You're right; I didn't think of that scenario. Although even that
scenario would be rendered impossible by the latter variations of the
Latford system that gave 5-10 more points to the race winner.


  336.   JSPorts posted:
  11.02.2020 - 2:33 pm
   Rate this comment:      (2)      (0)

Under the 2007-2010 version of the Latford system, a driver who won 35
races would have 6650 points and a driver who led the most laps &
finished 2nd in those 35 races would have 6300 points. The first driver
would've clinched the championship after the 35th race. With the
2004-2006 Latford system, the first driver would have 6475 points & the
second 6300. That means the first driver would clinch the title by
simply starting the finale.


  337.   Sector posted:
  11.02.2020 - 3:54 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

I saw that Chase9Fan wanted the winner to have more points than everyone
else which isn't the case today; It's simple, just give the race winner
the automatic 60 points no matter how many stage points they scored.
That way, someone winning both stages and finishing second would only
get 55 at most, and viola, race winner is never outscored. The only
difference between someone winning both stages and winning, and not
winning stages and winning are the Playoff points addition.


  338.   Anon posted:
  11.02.2020 - 3:54 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

@331 I just hope the incident is remembered the next time a less popular
driver (Logano, Kyle himself) does something dirty for a position or to
win a race, and we don't see hypocritical responses if/when it
eventually happens. I hope no one is upset if KB spins Harvick at
Phoenix because it is 100% warranted, even though KB didn't even lose a
position because of his exceptional loop/save.

@318 absolutely! This is just like a team not performing in a 7 game
series in baseball or basketball. Harvick simply didn't perform in this
round (series) of the playoffs, and as a result is not advancing. He was
given plenty of an advantage from the points earned, but couldn't
capitalize. The system did what it was supposed to do in giving him an
earned advantage, he simply failed to perform when it mattered most.

Finally, regarding all of the comments about Jones and "race
manipulation," if you can't see that this is different from the MWR
fiasco, or even the RWR/Premium fiasco from last year, then you are
simply choosing not to see the difference because you hate JGR/Toyota
anyway, and would never be convinced otherwise. Much like our current
political climate, facts are blatantly ignored to fit narratives.


  339.   Foote posted:
  11.02.2020 - 4:11 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

In that same Richmond 2013 race didn't the 38 car intentionally back off
so the 22 could have a position or something? And there was blatant
radio communication telling the 38 to give it to him. Think that's a
better comp for this situation. Bowyer spinning on purpose and affecting
every car in the field was much more extreme.


  340.   possum posted:
  11.02.2020 - 5:54 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

@317 - once upon a time NASCAR was proud to be different from the "stick
and ball" sports. (and, of course, back then NASCAR was a lot more
popular than it is now, which may or may not be related).

@338 - the big difference now from 2013 is it is explicitly against the
rules to manipulate the race outcome; every driver and team is required
to attempt to achieve the best finish possible (and yes, that's a
judgement call on NASCAR's part - altho if there was radio communication
saying "don't pass" it wouldn't be a hard call).

As for Harvick and Busch, we could probably list 100 cases of a driver
doing the "wreckers or checkers" thing. Heck, look at the other Busch
and Craven...a tad less traction and that would have been the same as
this race instead of "have you ever - no I never".


  341.   Corey posted:
  11.02.2020 - 6:14 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

This was the radio communication late in the race for Erik Jones.

Crew chief Chris Gayle said on the No. 20 team's radio to Jones:
"(Hamlin is) going to race you hard because he needs to, because it's
within like three points for those guys. He's going to race you hard
because it's three points on those guys. Just so you're aware."

Jones responded: "I've got a huge gap behind me."

About 80 seconds later, on the No. 20 team's radio channel, spotter Rick
Carelli said: "Don't pass him, Jones. Stay with him and drive what you can."

My own thoughts. Unlike the MWR and RWR situations, Erik isn't being
called to pit road or to pull in, neither is he trying to cause a
caution. We've seen in the past where teammates will help each other on
track. It's a very subjective decision and one that even the driver
himself could make without being told to.

With Harvick, there shouldn't be a penalty. NASCAR doesn't penalize
drivers for bumping or spinning a competitor when they are trying to
improve their position. Just look at Austin Dillon at the Daytona 500
and any truck finish at Mosport. Harvick admitted and so have many other
guys and NASCAR doesn't do anything. I expect nothing to come of it.


  342.   Canadianfan posted:
  11.02.2020 - 6:35 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

From Bob Pockrass:

NASCAR: After conducting a review of the on-track competition and 20
team radio communication from Sunday's race at Martinsville, NASCAR will
not issue any penalties to the 20 team.


  343.   RyanM posted:
  11.02.2020 - 7:19 pm
   Rate this comment:      (2)      (0)

Second time during these playoffs that they've refused to implement
their own rules and it's benefited Denny Hamlin (and if they'd taken
away his Talladega win*, he'd have had five fewer points and therefore
would've been eliminated yesterday because Harvick wouldn't have wrecked
himself). I don't care that he has 7 wins, if he wins the title, it's
completely illegitimate under these circumstances.


  344.   NASCARfan05 posted:
  11.02.2020 - 7:20 pm
   Rate this comment:      (1)      (0)

I guess NASCAR's love for Hamlin outweighs his blatant breaking of the
rules, not surprising seeing as they have been helping him all year


  345.   JSPorts posted:
  11.02.2020 - 7:24 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

To be fair, they helped out Chase at Talladega, too (and possibly at
Martinsville with the pit road penalty.) This is coming from a Chase
fan, but he really got lucky not to be penalized either of those times.
Obviously, NASCAR wants him to succeed as their most popular driver,
which makes sense.


  346.   Ralphie posted:
  11.02.2020 - 7:42 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

"To be fair, they helped out Chase at Talladega, too (*and possibly at
Martinsville with the pit road penalty*.)"

Would that be the "help" they gave him by following the rule book right
to the letter?

Those bastards.


  347.   GordonEvernham posted:
  11.02.2020 - 8:06 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

@297.....Bobby Allison did win a championship. He was the 1983 champion.


  348.   Tarheel posted:
  11.02.2020 - 9:25 pm
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At Martinsville Elliotts crew member knew that the rule book precisely
states that he was required to run back to the wall and touch it with
his foot, and that's exactly what he did. How is following a clearly
written rule "helping someone"?
At Talladega Elliott took the lead and Nascar instantly threw the
caution flag, ensuring another restart. If they had waited about five
more seconds, Elliott would have taken the white flag, the race would
have ended under caution, Elliott would have won the race, and with his
win at the Roval would have had five more bonus points going to the
final round. Nascar did not help Elliott in either of those cases.


  349.   Sector posted:
  11.03.2020 - 7:07 am
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

#347 That seems shocking to you. Yes, he has a Cup. Not multiple, but
just one. No one is tarnishing his legacy because of it.


  350.   Jesse posted:
  11.03.2020 - 7:08 am
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if Harvick wins Phoenix then it will in reality be a backpath championship


  351.   ScottB posted:
  11.03.2020 - 12:52 pm
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I don't think this has been mentioned yet, but Ford clinched the 2020
manufacturer's championship in this race with Ryan Blaney's second place
finish.


  352.   Canadianfan posted:
  11.03.2020 - 6:04 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

From ShowBuzzDaily:

Sunday's race had 2.718 million viewers on NBC. Last year's race had
2.252 million viewers on NBCSN.


  353.   Aldo posted:
  11.05.2020 - 8:15 am
   Rate this comment:      (2)      (0)

I think that the fact Harvick isn't in the final chase race is a
demonstration of how stupid, silly and dumb this chase system (and the
chase at all since its inception) is.

The season finale race is a pretty stupid race since 2014 because we've
got four contenders by law in any case. In the old days, having two or
more contenders was something really exciting to watch. If NASCAR wants
to bring this finctional game7-like every year and make it more
"exciting", why don't they give a chance to every driver enters a single
race and throw a lot of random yellow flags all race long?

Motoracing and balls sports are different. I like a Superbowl won by an
underdog (as 2007 Giants) but I don't like the Jets getting into the
playoffs this year. Remember the firdy elimination chase back in 2014
when Newman almost won the championship with no wins against Harvick.
Look at the first Kyle Busch championshio won after missing one third of
the season. Think about the way teams want to qualify through the stages
giving team orders, wrecking other cars on purpose and doing something
worst as the MWR fiasco. This is pure gimnicks, NASCAR won't recover
going on this way.

I didn't like the Latford system because it gave too much importance to
consistency (and until 2003 it happened that the first and second driver
got the same points) but I think it's time to go back to a traditional
"all the races count" system. It's only about studying math and making a
proper system to give importance to wins as the old F1 10 6 4 3 2 1
points system (for "all the drivers get points" NASCAR standars, it
should be a 500 300 200 150 100 50 40 38 36 34 32 30 29 28 ...1).


  354.   Joshua posted:
  11.05.2020 - 10:06 am
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (2)

Haha at all the people complaining about Harvick not making the Final 4.

Uh, guys? In 1985, Bill Elliott won 11 races, the Winston Million, and
didn't win the title.

In 1996, Jeff Gordon won 10 races, but not the title.

In 2007, Jeff Gordon won 6, had 30 Top 10s (30!), with an average finish
of 7th, and didn't win the title.

No system is going to work perfectly every time. This situation is no
different.


  355.   JSPorts posted:
  11.05.2020 - 11:09 am
   Rate this comment:      (2)      (0)

So, you can give 3/29 seasons where the best driver didn't win the
championship under the old system. I can give you 10/17 seasons where
the best driver hasn't (or won't, in Harvick's case) won the
championship under the playoff system. The old way wasn't perfect, but
it was immensely better than this. Also, @353 didn't even say we should
go back to the Latford system (I agree.) We should go to a different
full-season points format.


  356.   A.J. posted:
  11.05.2020 - 11:30 am
   Rate this comment:      (1)      (0)

@354

2007 was also a stupid stick-and-ball playoff crap year, so that
actually mitigates AGAINST the current system, not for it.

Those other 2 years OK, shit happens, but any point system in racing
that doesn't use the full season to determine a champion is garbage,
period. Some people still can't grasp that *racing isn't a
stick-and-ball sport*, and in this dumbed-down era of reduced attention
spans the powers-that-be believe it's so kewl and necessary to have
"playoffs" (even the PGA does this stupid shit now) or "brackets"
because that means you don't need to follow along all year to see how
things develop, since most of "all year" means nothing in the end. Tune
in for the last few races (or the last 2 minutes of the dribbleball
game, or whatever) and that's good enough for them.


  357.   Mile501 posted:
  11.05.2020 - 1:32 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

@356 - You make an excellent point, and your post reminded me of a blog
I posted a couple of years ago where I attempted to explain how a game
in stick-and-ball sports is very similar to a whole season in racing. In
either a single ball game or a whole season of races, you score points
throughout and every moment matters.

https://www.racing-reference.info/showblog?id=3369


  358.   Mannoroth posted:
  11.06.2020 - 12:26 am
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

355. Uh, the best driver doesn't always have to win the championship and
that's the way it is across all series of motorsports. When a really
dominant driver doesn't win the championship (like Harvick this year), I
can imagine it can cause a lot of bad talk, but when one of the slightly
better drivers in some season doesn't win the championship, it doesn't
mean it's all wrong. It's like saying that Kyle Busch didn't deserve the
title last year despite having 4 wins and 26 top 10s before the season
finale, but not running that good like his opponents. Or saying that
Kimi Raikkonen didn't deserve the title in 2007 just because Lewis
Hamilton was Mr. Consistency and simply screwed up in the last two races.

So like Joshua said, exceptions will always happen.


  359.   Ryan posted:
  11.08.2020 - 12:48 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

@315

"Plus, it would be nice that you acted nice and finally admitted that
you were wrong as you were so sure the entire Round of 8 that Harvick
will easily advance. I told you that nothing is impossible and your
words weren't true in the end. But I guess I want too much from you..."

Mannoroth, I never said that. Fact check time. Find me where I said that
Mr. Fake News. Perhaps in your own little world that you thought I was
thinking that. You should try getting a job at CNN.

"Harvick has only 1 title and it will be that way even after 2020 season."

I'm content referring to him as a four-time points champion and a
one-time playoff champion.

@353

"Remember the firdy elimination chase back in 2014 when Newman almost
won the championship with no wins against Harvick. "

Really, although a fan of Harvick, it's a shame that Newman didn't get
by him some how because more than likely the way they crown a "champion"
would have been changed instantly.

@341

"With Harvick, there shouldn't be a penalty. NASCAR doesn't penalize
drivers for bumping or spinning a competitor when they are trying to
improve their position. Just look at Austin Dillon at the Daytona 500
and any truck finish at Mosport. Harvick admitted and so have many other
guys and NASCAR doesn't do anything. I expect nothing to come of it."

It amazes me that people still feel Austin Dillon was wrong. He got
blocked by the leader on the last lap of arguably the biggest race in
the world, I'm sorry you don't lift and you especially don't lift when
another driver blocks you.

I agree with the no penalty part. Obviously, it's the box they've been
put in, and KyleFailureBusch would have done the same thing. Although I
don't like Busch, I couldn't blame him for doing it. And Kyle or JGR
can't say anything with the shenanigans they pulled with the 20. It's
why Harvick did what he did.

@358

"So like Joshua said, exceptions will always happen."

That doesn't make sense. Exceptions happen every now and then. 3/29


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